Kirra_Bomber_Zeus

And I wouldnt like to see another dog die or end up with a damaged immune system just because their owners vaccinated without considering all options. I think risk should be assessed for each individual dog each time as well. In my case, I live in WA and Distemper has been very rare here for the last 30 years. Parvo is very dangerous in puppies, but usually not so much in older dogs. So, for me, I will titre test my puppy when he turns 1 for parvo only. I dont usually get my 6 year old and 11 year old titre tested because I dont think its necessary. If I heard of a sudden breakout of distemper, I would probably do it differently. It is difficult if your vet subscribes to the 'annual vaccination no matter what' school because you are unable to discuss the pros and cons of your individual pet.

Kirra at 12 weeks Kirra at 6 years Zeus isnt quite old enough to have a 'now' photo!

Bomber at 8 weeks (Extremely old photo - sorry about the quality and colour!) Bomber at 10 years

My vet suggests every 3 years

BUT, Aussie pollies do have a history of blindly following in other countries footsteps - which means if more countries get rid of BSL, theres more chance our pollies might follow. I have had a few emails going back and forward with Minister Castrilli's office. Part of the letter I received yesterday said "In many circumstances legislation following the lead of other jurisdictions is adopted based on the views and interests of the community at the time. The Government continues to monitor the approach of other jurisdictions on these matters, and at appropriate times, reviews legislation." So, depending on the 'information' they are receiving as to what is happening around Australia, and around the world, their view may be able to be changed. Unfortunatley I think if dog lovers cant even unite on the issue, we have an uphill struggle trying to convince politicians. I see way too many attitudes seem to have gone from not just "Its not my breed" to "oh well, they can round up all the 'cross breeds' as long as they dont touch my pure breed". pffft. I have one 'pure breed' and 2 'cross breeds'. I am interested in the welfare of ALL dogs, no matter where they came from.

That would be really great, thanks!! I found out Titre testing costs $103.40 from VetWest, so I'm guessing that is cheaper than interstate?! No problem, I will try and boot my scanner into gear tonight! Im not sure what it costs interstate - I was told it is cheaper here though (we dont need to pay for shipping it over here)

Also, just to add - I think vets should ensure they do keep up with the latest information - especially from their own association, regardless of whether they receive the newsletter. The AVA states in their policies: 2.1 - Responsible use of veterinary immunobiologicals in cats and dogs Policy The Australian Veterinary Association (AVA) believes that veterinarians must maintain a highly professional approach to all aspects of the use of immunobiologicals (vaccines). This includes ensuring that vaccines are not used unnecessarily, ensuring that the latest techniques are adopted (as appropriate) and appreciating that the profession will be held responsible for the correct use of immunobiologicals. Veterinarians should aim to maintain the profession as the source of informed knowledge on the use of these agents.[/i] I really wish I had a copy of the newsletter with me - my vet gave it to me, however it is at home and I am at work! IF I can get my scanner to work tonight I will scan it and PM it to you if you like. Having something in writing from the AVA to show your vet might make you feel a little bit more confident if you decide thats what you want to do.

Hi Rubystar First of all, dont ever feel like a bad owner for researching the best for your dog. Just because a vet has an opinion different to yours does not mean you have to go along with it. There is no reason to vaccinate yearly. Even the Australian Veterinary Association are starting to 'get with the times' and advise that dogs should not be routinely vaccinated every year. Apparently the reason vets started advocating vaccinating annually in the first place is because they thought that owners needed a 'reason' to bring their pet in for a checkup each year. Immunity after a vaccination usually lasts for a minimum of 3 years, and probably for the life of the pet. I see you are in WA - we are lucky because it is easier and cheaper for us to get titer tests - they process them at Murdoch. Many vets are not up on the 'latest' information (and my vet told me that if that particular vet doesnt subscribe to the Veterinary Association's newsletter then they are probably not aware of the new protocols) Dont let your vet pressure you into anything you dont feel comfortable with. I found it difficult the first few times I told vets "I follow a minimum vaccination protocol" and "I feed my dogs a raw diet" and yes, a few tried to tell me that I was being a 'bad owner' but I simply replied "Ive done my research and made my decision thanks". I have never had one try to persuade me after that. You just need to be confident and clear with your message - they usually dont even take you on about it. One of my dogs is my walking case of why I do what I do - I feel so bad for what she has gone through, but I also am grateful that she came to live with me - I have learnt so much because of it.

Aha, thanks for that.

Hi Crisovar I noticed from a bit of research that it appears that the warning re not administering at the same time as vaccination etc comes on the Proheart6 package but not the ProheartSR12 - I couldnt find any answer as to why though? Im just interested - do you know? I would have thought that the 12 month one was 'stronger' than the 6 month one? Maybe the 2 products have different ingredients? I just thought it was strange and couldnt find the information as to why

I agree, usually freezing them will teach them to eat them slower. When my pup came home and I started feeding him raw chicken legs I held the other end of them for a while until he learnt how to chew them properly.

That is terrible. Whether the Proheart12 caused the tumor or not, the package had clear instructions that the vet did not follow. That really makes me angry. I have seen and heard of dogs being vaccinated when they are ill as well - the manufacturers clearly state that a sick dog is NOT to be vaccinated. You know, no vet has ever voluntarily advised me of the risks of vaccinations. Even when I asked, before I started doing my own research, I was fobbed off with a 'reactions are so rare and you are endangering your dog if you dont do it'. After my girl had a severe reaction I joined a group of people in Australia whos dogs had also suffered reactions and found there were many more cases than I had imagined.

No problemo

lol - my holistic vet is a vet (belongs to the Veterinary Association) but also uses 'holistic' treatments such as acupunture, homeopathics, flower remedies, massage etc. She also promotes raw feeding as opposed to commercial food. So she is able to perform 'traditional' veterinary procedures AND natural therapies. I really like the fact that I can discuss all of the different options with her - she will advise me on a case by case basis whether a natural approach is appropriate or a traditional procedure will be required. My dogs LOVE going there - her office is such a calm place to be - they just chill out on the carpet the whole time. This is the website of The Australian Holistic Veterinarians Association. But I cant seem to open the page right now so I cant see if they have a list of members! www.ahv.com.au/

Yes it is called a titer test - not all vets do it though. The Veterinary Association have actually published a newsletter saying that titer testing to ascertain immunity prior to vaccination is now their preferred protocol, however it doesnt seem that all vets have caught up on this yet! Im not sure on cost in NSW, I have a feeling that the test is sent to Perth to do (not 100% on this though!) so it may be more expensive than it is for us. From memory it is about $100 for us. Definately worth it from my point of view - the expense of the test far outways the expense of caring for a dog damaged by over vaccinations - believe me!

Hi Ruffles I am raising a pup on a raw diet at the moment. I spoke to my holistic vet about it before I started. Basically she helped me come up with the ratios to make sure he was going to get enough calcium etc. I am really happy with the way he is growing - she told me that in her opinion it is best for pups not to get carbohydrates as this is what causes them to grow too quickly. Im sure lots of people will have different opinions to offer you, although I have been feeding raw for 6 years, this is the first time Ive raised a puppy this way. Im happy with the way my pup is going - the breakdown I give him is: 50% RMB 40% Muscle meat 5% Offal 5% Fish I also give him some cottage cheese, but I dont think that fits in with your prey model diet? It was suggested I give it to him just to get his calcium levels right. Im not sure where you are, Im in Perth, so if you are in Perth I can give you the name of my holistic vet if you want to get some info from her specific to your dog.

Oh, and to answer the original question! If I do need to vaccinate, I will find out which brand my vet will be using and research the brand of vaccs and the company too. However, I will also seek my vet's advice (I go to a holistic vet and know that I can discuss the topic with her freely and receive unbiased advice)

This is the exact same information I have from my vet too. My vet suggests vaccinating at 10 weeks (C3 only and nothing before this age) then titer testing at 1 year to ascertain immunity. Then titer testing every 3 years after this.

A titer test is a blood test to determine whether a dog still has sufficient antibodies in their system to fight the diseases they were vaccinated against. If they do there is no reason to revaccinate. I give my dogs the absolute minimum vaccinations I can. I have experienced the awful effects of an adverse vaccine reaction with one of my dogs so will not vaccinate unless I feel it is absolutely necessary.

I agree - which dogs are classified as 'mostly harmless'?? I think its a dangerous thing to divide dog breeds in to 'safe' and 'not safe'. This is where the mentality that 'I never thought MY dog would attack my child - he's a <insert safe breed here> they're not dangerous!' comes from. This is why the public perception is what it is at the moment - the media have convinced people that there are only certain breeds of dogs you need to 'watch out for'. ALL dogs have teeth and all dogs have the ability to attack. I wouldnt think it was 'fair' if the owner of a gentle APBT had to pay the tax and an owner of a vicious SWF didnt..... Whatever the solution is it needs to be a solution that is not determined by breed. Personally, I think education is the key. I know we will never be able to avoid certain breeds attracting irresponsible owners, but I think many attacks are by dogs owned by people who are not thugs, they havent intentionally trained their dog to attack, they were just uneducated about raising a dog, supervising their children around dogs etc. I dont particularly think 'more laws' are required - if the current laws were directed at dangerous dogs of any breed they would be sufficient - IF they were enforced properly. Introducing more laws such as licensing would be helpful if it could target the right people - unfortunately, the people doing the 'wrong thing' would just find a way around them. The people doing the 'right thing' are already doing the right thing. If we can convince the Government that education programs will reduce dog attacks and help them find ways to enforce the non breed specific laws they already have, there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

I agree. How is assulting her immune system with more vaccinations than necessary "better for her immune system"? And yes, it most certainly could do her harm. (just incase I sound terse, I am definately not having a go at you martymonty, well done for asking the question and not just 'going along' with what the vet says even if it doesnt feel right. My frustration is wholy directed at vets that give this sort of advice)

My pup is the same - he is an Amstaff x Bull Mastiff and he's 16 weeks. My Staffy is finally calm at 6 years old but I remember her being completely hypo at 16 weeks. At this stage I am just considering myself very very lucky

I know what you mean - I guess I would only actually report the ones where they do show a definate sign of reaction - The ones I have classed as a 'reaction' so far are: one of my dogs has had a reaction where he was panting heavily and had really glassy eyes, it also left a red bumpy spot on him. One of my dogs acts very aggressively about an hour afterwards (totally out of character for her) and has hypersensitive skin. Another time one of them literally ran around 'screaming' after I put it on them.

Yep, I have had problems with Revolution, and Frontline, and Advantage! Arrrgg! :cool: Its a really good idea to report the adverse reaction to: http://www.apvma.gov.au/index.asp (there is a form to fill out) rather than to the manufacturer. Unfortunately most reactions dont get reported so the apvma doesnt get real statistics on which products are causing problems and how often

I then showed my age by saying "dont you remember they used to be on our 2 cent coin??" and got a blank stare with the 'we used to have a 2 cent coin?' look