Selkie

It's this that makes me understand the drive to breed (or create new breeds) of medium sized dogs with poodle coats, low-moderate energy levels, low prey drive, low guard instincts, high gregariousness, low anxiety, high bidability, and moderate intellegence. Dog people understand the origins of their breed, and are happy to work with it. The average dog owner, less so; they want a dog that will fit in with them. Yes, there are some very overlooked breeds, such as the lowchen, but they aren't for everybody.

I will also say that my Standard is from Klabauter - Julia specifically breeds for dogs with family dog temperaments, and they are well socialised with her children from a young age. I would certainly not want to mix children with a schnauzer that hadn't been socialised with kids as a puppy. My dog has very strong ideas about what is acceptable and what is not. As she's been socialised with kids, she enjoys the rowdiness. Kids screaming in the back yard tends to result in zoomies. If she hadn't been socialised with kids, then I think she'd likely be highly offended by the noise and activity.

Smaller than a lab. She's a little shorter than my mother's Australian Cattle Dog, and less solid. I second what Dogsfevr says - a Standard is different to a Mini. The three sizes are different breeds with different needs. Having said that, my Standard, is more like a Mini than, say, a poodle. I suppose it also depends on your child's personality, and your dog experience? My boys are very active, and I previously owned cattle dogs, so I'm used to sharpish dogs with strong protective instincts.

I have young kids and have a Standard Schnauzer. I was worried that the mini would be too small, and therfore frightened by busy kids. She's been excellent with them - She has an endless sense of fun, and being a confident dog, enjoys (closely supervised) running and chasing games.

The group isn't dedicated to oodles. There are many people on it with a wide range of experiences and thoughts on dogs. It's just that there's a few very vocal people on there who own oodles, and love to recommend them. There's also a lot of people who don't know much about dogs, and go there for advice. Yes, I'm often tempted to leave, but I'd like to put a few good links up to educate the ones who want more information.

So, I'm on a facebook group that loves the oodles (the group wasn't started for this purpose). I try to educate, but find it overwhelming. Does anyone have a link to a good article that explains the risks/issues with these dogs? These facebook people all seem to believe that their beloved puppies come from a loving home that responsibly breeds crossbreds for the joy of it... Edited for clarity

As you've pointed out, no two dogs are the same, and they can't go looking for a "replacement" for Sumpy. Your parents may be in the right position to go looking for a fostered dog in a rescue organisation. That way, they can meet dogs until they find one that they "click" with. That's such an important factor, and really difficult to predict. An Australian Cattle Dog or small cattle dog cross may be suitable. They are trainable, and tend to stick with their owners. Most dogs will hunt snakes if given the opportunity - terriers will be more persistent, of course, and Sumpy looks like he may have has some terrier blood!

Thanks for the thoughts everyone! I'll have another go with the search button for old threads - no luck last time. She certainly wouldn't expect this to be 100% - part of living ruraly is accepting the risk of snakebite. Also, this dog is a hard-headed, canny cattle dog - if there's any dog that's going to figure out that the collar is responsible for the stimulus, it's this one. As the dog has fantastic recall, I think the best bet might be encouraging "alerting" behaviours - so that the dog informs my mother that the snake is there, rather than attacking the snake.

Hi All! My mother has just moved to a new area, and the house is near a creek, so there's plenty of snakes. She has an Australian Cattle Dog who is 8 years of age and is a habitual snake-hunter - she's killed many over the years. My mum is doing her best to manage the environment - snake netting around the yard, putting the dog on lead in high risk situations. This dog is a rural working dog, however, so it's difficult to keep her locked up all the time. She's heard of snake aversion training, and wants to find out if it would be useful for her dog. Obviously she wouldn't rely on it entirely, but was hoping it may add another layer of protection. Any advice to give? She's concerned that with a dog who is an established hunter, aversion training may simply damp the dog's warning signals without discouraging the prey drive. She's on the VIC/NSW border, if that changes anything.

I think you seem to have very clear, well thought out reasons for wanting the sex and breed of dog that you do. The fact that you have sought help from a behaviourist shows you are willing to learn to improve the wellbeing of your dog. I would just be honest about your lifestyle, what you can offer a dog, and what you are looking for in a dog.

I had a similar situation. The breeders did not want people on their property for quarantine and privacy reasons. I felt these reasons were solid, but I was not willing to commit to 10+ years with a dog without seeing the parents, so I went with another breeder.

I can see both sides. On one hand, I do not think only people who own their own home or who have perfect rental records or who are prepared to make huge compromises on where they live should be allowed to have pets. The most vulnerable people in our society, who are the least able to negotiate these things, are probably those who would most benefit from pets. On the other hand, when I was looking for a house sitter to mind my house for six months, there was no way I was letting a smelly, bird-murdering, furniture-shredding cat into my house. I'm a hypocrite...

Not always impossible, but can be impossible. If you have time to look for lots of properties, don't have other strict requirements for the property, and otherwise can make a good application, it can go well. That's not true for everyone, however. I have really struggled in the past, and nearly had to send my dog to live with my mother for a time. This is when I was able to make an excellent rental application with two professional incomes - but in a tight rental market. As it was, the property that we ended up getting was quite unsuitable in other ways, but we took it as it was the only one that would allow us our dog.

Tricky. I have sympathy for the rental situation - securing rental with a dog can be next to impossible - the choice between dog and homelessness can be real. I'd probably ask if I could mind the dog until she definitely has the dog friendly rental offer in writing, and then if she secures the rental, give the dog back. There are plenty more out there.

Rural Pug, that sweet little grey dog - do you think the coat may have come from an Australian Silky Terrier?

Spotted Devil, the Dalmatian example is another of how our obsession with not outcrossing our purebreds damages dogs. If we weren't so obsessed, then more people could outcross to the pointer, and there would be more than one strain with which to introduce the gene, and thus the problem with deafness would not be an issue. I think the problem with crossing in horses results from a problem in the breeds themselves. Like dogs, arabs and qh have been overbred - they are sadly departed from the useful breeds they once were. As you say, show ring arabs are really no longer rideable! It's a travesty! It's intersting to look at chicken breeding. There's no such thing as a chicken pedigree, as you can't be sure which hen laid the egg the bird in question hatched from. As a result, a "purebred" chicken is one that has the characteristics of the breed in question. It's quite common for chook breeders to have "project birds" - crossing breeds in to your flock to develop new colours or patterns.

In dogs, I can think of one example of intelligent use of crossbreeding. This was in Finland, I believe, with the German Pinscher. The breed was almost extinct, so they had a very small gene pool to work with. They also had many individuals with uncertain temperaments. They cross bred with the Standard Schnauzer (which historically was the same breed anyway ) and with spaniels. This broadened the gene pool and gave them some better temperaments to work with. In dobermanns, I'd love to use the stumpy tailed cattle dog to introduce the bobtail and upright ear genes. I believe they used corgis to do this in boxers. Both genes are autosomal dominant, so in theory, it would be possible - you'd have to breed down ear size, though, or it would look pretty odd. The big problem would be that in the process, you'd end up with heaps of high -drive high needs dogs (with undesirable characteristics like spotted coats) that needed homes, in a country that's already overrun with crossbred working dogs.

I see what you mean Spotted Devil - if you cross two breeds with very different physical characteristics, the outcomes might be less predictable. I think this is partly why, in theory, staffxfb might be sound - there's not huge differences in characteristics (? and temperament). Rural Pug, I guess that's the problem. The theory is sound. The real life practice is anything but. I've heard of a shetland x heavy horse - the accidental mating between a colt and a very determined shetland mare. Apparently it looked like a gypsy cob. I imagine that this was a significant risk to the poor little mare.

That's what I was curious about - because with horses, first cross is usually pretty predictable. An anglo-arab, for example, will usually have a head that is longer than the pure-bred arab's, but retains some of the refinement in the nose. Why so different in dogs? In cattle, the "black baldy" (friesian cow x hereford bull) is instantly recognisable. I suspect that part of the unpredictabliltiy in oodles is the complexity of coat genetics, and also second/third crosses being sold as first cross. I'm struck by the difference between dog breeding culture and horse culture. At a horse show, you will have categories for pure bred arabs, then there's categories for the arab x ponies, the arab x warmbloods, arabian stockhorses, and so on. There are certainly cases in the dog world where the idea of a pure breed is held on to too tightly, to the detriment of dogs. The difficulty in getting the LUA gene into the dalmatians, for instance.

Oh I totally agree ... I just meant prior to designer breeds, people did deliberately cross breed dogs to get useful working dogs. These dogs are not to my taste, but I can see that if they came from well screened parents (which I know they don't) they would have good characteristics for a pet for a lot of people. Muzzle short enough to be cute, but not so short that it distorts the anatomy. Stocky and solid, but not as boofy as a staff. I'm talking about ideal situations here, though, not the real world!

I will prefix this by saying that I'm aware that the issue here is the overbreeding of dogs of unknown health backgrounds and predatory marketing. Now I'm going to say something very contraversial - in the dog world, I think, due to the issues above, we have forgotten the benefits of the first cross. With horses, it's used very commonly - the Anglo-arab (tb x arab) and hunter ( usually tb x draft, often clydesdale ) are very commonly used and respectable crosses. Because it's first cross, the results are pretty predictable. In the uk, lurchers (sighthound cross terrier or collie) have long been popular as hunting dogs. SBT cross FB actually could be a nice little dog. The problem here is both parents are probably backyard bred with no health screening, and the pups will probably raised in dreadful conditions.

It would very much depend on country. Kelpie, ACD, JRT and SBT crosses seem to make up 90% of crossbreds in the pounds where I am.

Ray Coppinger writes well on these type of dogs. He calls them "pye dogs" - the quintessential dog. Found worldwide on the streets until very recently, when modern western cities introduced dog control.

I know a cattle dog that is very effective against foxes and pigeons. The only downside is that she does eat eggs.

She is. She's a lovely dog. Please excuse the novice groom!