Selkie

5 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

In theory.
 

In practice, I wonder how much inbreeding occurs in most profit-focused enterprises producing “designer crossbreeds”. Buying unrelated dogs for breeding would be a drain on profits. Those enterprises would make larger profits if they kept dogs from early litters and bred them to each other or to their parents.

 

Just yesterday, I saw a post on another forum, asking for advice. The poster’s “designer crossbreed”  dog had just been diagnosed with NCL5 (Golden Retriever variant), a fatal, neurological, genetic disease which occurs in Golden Retrievers. Responsible Golden Retriever breeders DNA test for NCL and the gene is rare enough that it’s likely that the affected dog was inbred to an NCL carrier. Unfortunately, because the dog was a crossbreed, nobody thought to check for NCL until after 6 months of scans, specialist vet visits and deteriorating health and behaviour.

Exactly. Before gene testing for purebreds, and back when a "crossbred" was either truely random, or was a product of a farmer's thoughful landrace breeding, this might have been true for dogs. In the current environment, I'm not sure that this applies.

I actually think that your email was enough to put any vet on the defensive. Medication errors happen, and I really don't think that that was the best way to deal with it.

Is there an increase, or is it media reporting? There are over 6 million dogs in this country, so even a very very rare event can look frequent if every dog bite is heavily reported on. If 1 or 2 people die of dog bites every year in this country, one extra can look like an outbreak. Compare this to over 1000 deaths per year from car accidents.

3 hours ago, tdierikx said:

"A 2021 consultation put forward by the NSW Department of Primary Industry recommended the introduction of a private dog breeder licensing scheme.

The following year, the Companion Animals Amendment (Puppy Farms) Bill was passed in parliament allowing pet shops to sell from approved breeders."

 

Ummm... actually the Puppy Farms Bill did NOT get passed in 2022... it passed in the Legislative Council, but it missed the rise of parliament time cutoff before being debated and assented to by the Legislative Assembly, and is still on Emma Hurst's list of Bills to be presented in this current term of parliament. Funnily enough, she has been focusing on other Bills lower on her list so far and hasn't even tabled her latest run at the Puppy Farms Bill. The bill IS high on the list of Private Members Bills yet to be presented, but so far she's been avoiding tabling it... not sure why...

 

One thing to note is that Labor have their own plans to completely overhaul all animal welfare legislation in NSW in a similar fashion to what is being proposed in Victoria - and reading the discussion paper of what is being proposed there raises some major concerns that will affect all animal owners. It looks like NSW are waiting to see what happens with the Victorian proposal before going ahead with their take on matters in this state.

 

As for the over-representation of bull breeds and their crosses in pounds and shelters, and calls to ban breeding of any dogs (and or cats) until those animals are adopted is flawed. Most people do NOT want to take on an adolescent or adult larger breed powerfully built dog that has had little to no socialisation or basic training and is of an age where quite frankly, a lot of work needs to be done to make that dog a decent canine citizen. People want a puppy that is wired to learn what is expected of them easily, not a dog that has already formed habits that will be very hard to rehabilitate to a level that is fully acceptable to polite society. Then there are those who use "it's a rescue" as some sort of justification for not addressing certain behavioural issues in their dogs... and that needs to stop now IMHO.

 

T.

So true! The available dogs in our area are mostly bull breeds, with a few working dog crosses in there. There is the occasional "pet breed" dog, but those nearly always seem to have significant behavioural or health issues. These are dogs that are just not suitable for your average dog owner. 

I agree with the comment regarding the autopsy. Vizulas are prone to bloat, which comes on suddenly, so it's entirely possible that this wasn't avoidable.

If he really had eaten nothing for four days, then an earlier discussion would have been better, but I'm a bit suspicous that may have been just reduced appetite, which wouldn't  be uncommon for a stressed dog. It may have had nothing to do with him later becoming sick - the dog had seen a vet and sent back to the traiing faciltiy between those four days and becoming  seriously unwell, after all.

I think it is very possible that a trained pet rat might be comfortable with this. Rats are incredibly trainable, and rats raised in a house with a dog won't have the same fear of dogs that a wild rat would. Rats are also extremely - as in astoundingly - good at predicting and learning to avoid situations they percieve as dangerous - the fact that they happily go into the tube speaks volumes. Rats also NEED novelty and training for wellbeing. Done well, this could also fill the rats' needs as well as the dogs'.

I do nose work with my dog, and there is a lot of parallel with this work. Using substrate would be teaching the dog the wrong thing.  A dog can smell the difference between substrate and a live rat. You wouldn't want the dog to tell you where substrate is, you want the dog to tell you where the rat is.

9 hours ago, coneye said:

Vets should of warned them  how much its going to be , i'm afrais i just don't feel sorry for the vet , 37 grand thats a lot of money  , the usual person would never imagine thats going to be the cost  if they paid it the vet is lucky that they had that sort of money around ..

 

There are many many people in that area who think $37,000 is nothing. It was also pretty clear from another article that this couple had been warned that the cost could blow out, and knew exactly what they were getting in for. The couple also even acknowledged that it wasn't much of a financial impact for them.

I don't think the vet is "lucky" - the people who go to that particular vet go there because they want that sort of treatment. I personally know that I can't afford it, so wouldn't go to that particular vet.

7 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

Yes it's a lot of $.  But you assume the vet knew what the problem was before doing CAT scan and other tests.  Very likely it was worse than anticipated.  When Ihave ended up in similar situations,  I have left the vet with instructions to let me know if the bill was likely to be over $Xxxx, or the prognosis was poor.   I have been prepared to decide on euthanasia if the cost was beyond me or the expected outcome was short of full recovery.

Also, I don't think it's a lot of money for the couple in the article. SVES have a very particular market niche, and that's a wealthy clientele that wants to spend crazy money on  their pet. It sounds lilke that couple also knew what they were getting themselves in for, and made that decision anyway.

It's pretty appaling that they are playing this "poor us" game after the fact.

The statement at the end by the SVES is very telling. They provide "human-level" care. If you want that for your pet, then you need to pay for it. If you don't want that, go to a vet who offers normal vet care.

I don't think people appreciate how cheaply vets can accomplish things. The equvialent surgery for a human would probably be double that!

On 25/03/2023 at 9:08 AM, Mairead said:

If the owner was correctly quoted as saying he was scared the horse would kick [and kill] him, then we have another problem of people believing that movies represent reality.

The owner sounds like an oik, but with most horses, he would have been very correct. That horse was under a great deal of stress, and was not able to run - many horses in this situation will resort to kicking, and when they do this, they can reach far further and far higher than people expect. Being killed by a kick to the head or chest is a definite possibility. NEVER approach a horse that you don't know from the rear; allow at leat two horse lengths.

There are many horses that dislike dogs. They will deliberately chase a dog that gets into their paddock, and strike with their front legs. They are quite capable of killing a dog this way.

The obedience and training of that poor horse is just astounding.

17 hours ago, cannibalgoldfish said:

" I see many ads on community notice boards, and sales sites i shouldn’t name on here, of haphazardly bred, unvaccinated, not microchipped puppies that no authority ever follows up - despite the many requirements on breeding and advertising." 

 

A guy I work with just sold a  litter of Jack Russell Terriers. Back yard bred. Before the birth he was worried about the Mum because she was very small. No screening, had no idea how many pups she was having, ect. Just "Oh I hope she is ok"  Mum had a C section and had 5 pups. 

 

He just sold the last of these pups. They were 9 weeks old. Apparently one pup was a girl and very small.... 

 

People get their knickers in a knot about Puppy Farms. This is what is happening in backyards every day. 

While not minimising the issues with this... I'd still rather this than the puppy farms, I think.

So tragic.  I'm pretty appaled that they went so long without being checked on. Horses get themselves in all sorts of strife, and die pretty quickly if they get stuck on the ground or can't lower their heads.

That last photo - she does look so much happier. How is she going? I'm invested now!

A bit of both. The owner completely ignoring the dog-agressive cattle dog is clearly in the wrong. On the other hand, regularly walking an on-lead dog through an off-lead area is a bit of a PITA thing to do. Yes, my off-lead dog is under my control, but there are so few areas that allow dogs off lead, and I take my dog to these areas so that she can have some freedom. The minute you bring your on-lead dog into the area, I'm having to bring her under close control again, because she's suddenly focused on running up to your dog. I've probably had to drive quite a way to access a park that allows my dog to run around under her own steam, and by bringing your on lead dog into the area, you have ruined that for her.

Well, he doesn't look super happy about having a bath, but they rarely do. He doesn't appear to be hugely worried, either. I don't really think he's going to care or even notice the colour change.

1 hour ago, tdierikx said:

With the rates of violent crime in South Africa, as noted at the end of the story, many people have certain breeds of dog for protection... and also as noted at the end of the story, removing one breed of dog will only see an increase in other breeds owned for the same reason.

 

So the problem is not necessarily going to be resolved by banning a particular breed of dog... they will simply be replaced by other breeds primarily bred/owned for protection as noted in the article. Until the crime rate problem is addressed effectively, they won't see the dog attack rate dropping significantly, it will just be perpetrated by other breeds instead. Do we simply ban any breed of dog that may inflict damage on a child simply because of its size/breed and possible potential given the "right" circumstance?

 

@coneye, would you have given up your Rottweiler to be destroyed because someone else's Rottweiler attacked a child, and there was a call to ban all Rottweilers?

 

T.

You have summed this up very nicely!

I would have thought English Shorthair Pointer, or Bull Arab with very high proportion of pointer.  The English pointers can look a little more like the Bull Arabs:

On 07/11/2022 at 7:37 PM, Amazetl said:

Cavoodles were listed as the most popular or most bought dog breed in AU. I always thought it was labs. Maybe it’s still labs when it comes to registered litters. 

 

Why do people want cavoodles so much? I think probably because they are cute or at least cute as pups. We had some in our puppy class and incredibly cute and sweet. But I saw older ones too and they looked a bit funny, maybe just the haircut. I think smaller dogs are easier to care for though, easier to handle and don’t cost as much, and people who want a cute fluffy dog and get attached to them probably are people who do care and stand by them for the most part. But some people who get the bully breeds don’t seem to be as caring, sadly. Nor do their breeders, sometimes. 

 

 

I think people want cavoodles so much because they have the charactersitics that many people are looking for in a pet. Biddable, not too high a prey drive, often a lot of puppy characteristics to behaviour. I think people want the cav temperament, but are very understandably put off by the health issues, and as much as it is frowned upon here, if you really want the cav, I do think that outcrossing is a reasonable way to start addressing this. People who aren't dog people want a fluffy, affectionate, inoffensive companion whose needs are easy to meet in the suburban environment.

I would personally love a poodle, but I think they are way too clever, intense and sensitive for most people. 

It's interesting that it still seems to be the same breeds. Bull types, working dogs, some large purebreds and the odd terrier. Why do people insist on overbreeding bull types? 

Well, this is how new breeds emerge. There is a high demand for very stable dogs with a poodle-like coat that don't have the high interaction needs that a lot of poodles have. A lot of the poodle-coated breeds already in existence (ie, lagotto, portugese water dogs) are working dogs, with working dog needs. The average joe does not want a working dog.

If you can consistently get a poodle coat in poodles, you will be able to get a consistent coat in Cobberdogs, if you selectively breed for it for long enough.

I'd compare it to the unfilled niche for personal protection that led to the development of the Dobermann, or the unfilled niche for tough working dogs that would thrive in Australian conditions that led to the development of the kelpie and ACD.

Aw  - such a handsome boy!

Shame on you for posting this without pictures 

Well, we know that some dogs (usually border collies) can have receptive vocabularies of thousands of words, and this is very easy to prove, at least for names of objects. You can certainly debate about exactly how much Bunny understands what she is trying to convey, but I don't think that it's surprising that a dog would use these buttons to communicate basic ideas and needs with humans. They do that without buttons, usually with body language. Mine can tell me when she wants to go outside, go to bed, or go for a walk, just through gaze and body position. 

On 08/06/2022 at 9:38 AM, coneye said:

Can't even see why they bother doing studies  on it .  Its not rocket science  ,, on the left you have  wild dogs ,, wolfs , foxes , dingos ,, these dogs have not yet worked out how to   grow grain , they don't know how to build or work machinery , plant corn or wheat , so they chase other animals and reptiles for there sunday dinner .

 

Domesticated dogs on the other hand  have come to rely on humans for food and humans themselves gave up hunting there food  a couple  of years ago so just go down the shop and buy it  in the process they buy there dog food , hence dogs  eating habits and digestive systems have evolved  diferently ,

 

So there you have it lesson free , next one only half the charge of an expensive study , save money make me rich win win  situation

Well, yes, but on the other hand, with science, it is important to test assumptions. Sometimes things that seem obvious don't actually end up being true.

Also, if you know exactly what the genetic differences are between dogs and dingoes, that will help us in preserving real dingoes, rather than wild dog crosses.