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Ive written to council as paper trail. Thanks as i had not thought about it. Ive spoken to neighbour who has apologised, and says he'll keep dog in, but others living there are less vigilant with dogs escaping. He cant renew the fence as renting/too costly. He seriously understands now they will take his dog out potentially. So will try to keep dog out. I tried to alert rspca re.puppy farm. But as hes a registered breeder, it not illegal to breed every heat, just not good practice there was nothing they could do about that. I had the two litters + dams here for 3 wks, if they had come and seen the matts on the dams, maybe we could of gotten some neglect traction, but they came at week 5 when id returned them. My bitch is coming out of heat, so less attractive to his stud, so less likely to want to visit. Council says dogs are registered as working dogs, if dogs kill intruding roaming dogs on my land its ok. If they follow escaping dog off my land and kill, i get a dangerous dog label and must obey laws for containment 24/7. Ie wont be able to work them any more. I feel ive done all i can.

Neighbours dogs are entering my property. 2 risks. High voltage electric fence, 2 maremmas guarding my stock. We have fence set high to keep cattle and sheep in. Question 1: would a small toy oodle thing survive the shock? They do bark to deter intruders, but sometimes kangaroos ignore the warnings and get taken out by the dogs. so they are not just paddock ornaments. They will defend the stock if the intruder does not get out at the barking chasing stage. Question 2: would my working maremmas be punished for killing a dog on our land? I can shoot the dogs for worrying stock. And legally be fine, though shooting a dog is not something im capable of, or would ever do. And death by maremma? not sure how legally i would stand there. We are working on a solutions. But worried about question 2 in particular. and one, but more ?2 as these are much loved working dogs.

I have had our pup for 1 week. And he's been training in being left alone. Using a metal collapsable crate, in the house. i simply followed kikopup crate training. I prefer to use positive training methods, and she is an excellent trainer. Easy to follow. Search for her on youtube. Lots of games to play with pup in crate. I am now on day 9. and pup will of own accord, chose to go sleep in the crate. If he has a bone, and wants to keep it, he'll go into his crate to eat it in peace. Ive been leaving him at home alone deliberately, for random durations in time, and comning home and not opening the door unless he's sitting. In a 'you decide' training method. IM happy with results so far.

I think the point, about the need for a victim, who is willing to stand trial is an excellent one. I cant imagine any handler doing so. And re: 'its not legal, its just not illegal'. Same difference isnt it?. There can be no breaking of legislation, if there is no legislation, i would of thought?

I think i am being sucked in. The amount of guilt i feel leaving him out, is a big clue to him sucking me into thinking, he must keep going. I have a wellness plan: meds/supplements for joints, that he/i like more in summer, when i can swim him daily, and know he's had enough exercise. keeps him toned to keep somethings going, as suggested. ITs the winter, that i get the guilts. more treiball he'd like, I might have to beef this aspect up in his life, to compensate for exercise. You do have to include the olds, regardless of how many feet they have, OF COURSE, but how they are involved has to change.

New to IPO. Live in Vic. where its illegal. Migrant to Aus. and just dont get it? Does anyone care to explain, why this is illegal, and why it legal in other states. Currently would have to a) break the law in training and b) travel to trial. Seems crazy state of affairs, i totally do not understand? IF you are someone in the know, do you think this rule will be overturned at any point? Seems to me, that there are a lot of political people at the top. With conflict of interest, preventing it being de legislated.

i have 2 double coated dogs: rottie and GSD. Probaly had 4 baths ever in their lives. But swim most days. The long haired GSD is a weekly groom, i tend to break it down, with breaks in between, leaving the dreadlock removal if there are any: till last. Nails, have never had to trim either of the dogs nails as they wear down naturally. Which im glad about as the nails are black. Nightly, when lounging, and im stroking, i automatically, am checking the dog over, and remove seeds, twigs etc. Teeth: fed raw, and perfect white teeth you can expect from this diet. worming day: they line up for their monthly treat/chews. De flea: dont bother, swimming kills those De tick: dont bother, they arent around here Heartworm: dont bother only 2% prevalence where i am I tend to groom my GSD at training also, training lay down/relax whilst i do this, with other dogs training around us. Its good to train calm too!

I have a 9 1/2yr old GSD. Who has been tracking, herding trei balls, dock diving, IPO. Very high octaine dog. From birth, and still has same energy and drives are pretty full on. I attempted to decrease physical exercise, increase mental stimulation. He doesnt like this plan:( I intro'd scent detection as sniffer dog, which he nailed as has a good nose, and yes mental does tire dogs, but not in the same way. He's hyped up, needs to run it off! He packs his own bag for training. Drags his blanket and leash to the car, at 6.30pm every wednesday and friday (training days). Has my gum boots outside my bedroom door at 5.30am daily for me. On the one hand, i think, he'll have to run into the ground. On the other, when i hear him yelp with pain on some moves, i feel guilty for allowing him to keep training. How? how do you slow a dog down, and keep his needs, that i have instilled & drilled into him over a decade now, met?

I spoke to breeder, he also said, doing the swap will be minimal change as raw and barf are very similar. And to use pumpkin to solidify things if he gets runny in first day or two, as a natural remedy for loose stools. never used pumpkin for this before. anyone else tried this? 4 weeks till pup arrives. The days are dragging. Longest 18 months wait of my life!

Im a crate lover too. here's why: I do believe dogs like dens. The reason is, im on my 4th GSD, and every single one, is a digger of DENS! The crate is a substitute den. They have chosen the crate over the digging of dens. I go bush camping. The crate enables me to prevent hunting whilst i sleep. I have nieces, that are cruel to dogs. And parents who dont see how sick n twisted these girls are, putting my dogs in the crate when they visit, prevents me from having to kill them. And i get to live in the community having not murdered my married into family. I had a ACL surgery on one dog, it required crating in recovery, that she is already crate trained, made this easier for her to do. Ive had injured animals rock up on property: ive used the dog crate to contain them. I have multi dog family. The crate has house trained all of them. I dont just mean toileting, but my house is safe from destruction, if i pop them in there when im busy. I travel to training: there is a secure car travel crate. In an accident, they are secure. Its bolted into the car, so wont be moving. If we go to stay with people, my dogs can come too. As the crate gets taken with us for this. Makes me more user friendly to people i visit. I know my dogs temperaments well. They are sound of nerve and temperament, doing IPO. And they love crates. There are many world renown trainers, who extol the virtue of crate training. If Forrest Mickey, Micheal Ellis, Ian Dumbar, Susan Garrett < my gurus all say crate is great. Im with them! I like the look of the fabric ones, but my dogs would rip those apart in seconds! so have: wire crate, solid metal box with bars to see through at entrance only type, and a cage trailer that can be pulled by a car that they all fit in. All have taken to crates with the only training required. locked or open, they are at ease in there. Which in turn has me at ease. Priceless when travelling with a pack of dogs.

I think IPO has caught up. From what im seeing. Rare to see a compulsion trained dog at the top of IPO trials. Old methods show in the end result. And its not pretty. There's no joy.

Wow, Buzz made it to Australia! :D He is notorious in some circles. We used to be friends, but I went and said something about formal dominance hierarchies in dogs and he never did get over that. I am just the worst. I think that perhaps a functional assessment is more useful in these cases. What is the dog trying to achieve? Is it distance increasing behaviour or frustration? What is contributing to the arousal? These are questions we can answer to some extent, by observing how the dog's behaviour changes when we change the consequences, and will be useful in treating it. Get the arousal down and you're usually halfway there with this kind of thing. Prevent practice, reinforce an incompatible behaviour, make sure the dog is getting suitable outlets etc. thanks for the link to what is proving to be a great article. The reference section alone, will take me months. I am probably a rare person, in that im likely to read this plus referenced articles within the article. My 1st reaction: anyone that starts a behaviourism artcle quoting freud, is discrediting themselves. Freud is not highly regarded as a scientist. In layman's terms: i can see the different drives being called upon, activated, deactivated, switched, vamped up, cooled down. Its a crude descriptor, but a community communicates in common language. Most advanced trainers can have therefore, conversations, about 'drives' and understand where the other is coming from. So the language for me has utility. Im doing IPO, where drives are spoken of, as facts. where they are not fact. As this article indicates, i still get what the trainer is talking about, can amend my behaviour accordingly, and change the outcome as desired. So in the absence of having a 'real' agreed language, drives will do. Once again, cheers. Terrific article.

YES. I am saying this. Not if anywhere on the property, inside, outside, stood next to them, or sat in my car in drive way. No barking full stop. They dont need to, im home, they stand down as guards. I am also stating i really like collar grab, and use it currently, for anything im not keen on. It works. But as there's no barking here, i dont get to collar grab. I agree, TOT is not for every dog, and certainly will cause some temporary discomfort for a weaker nerved dog. And even then (temp discomfort, that the dog can work through easily enough), i am happy to let any dog ive owned so far, to sort it out and work through the anxiety and come out the other end. But for say some of the pet dogs in my extended family, this would be too much pressure. And i am no cruel trainer. So wouldn't go there. But neither would i 'go there' on purchasing such a dog these days. I am in my last, or 2nd to last dog in my lifespan if dog has 10yr life span. For the last one, or 2 dogs if i am lucky, id like to start playing with a great hand!

long story short: new pup being flown to me at 8 weeks. Due to being flown in travel crate, it wont arrive with a few days supply of food. Breeder feeds BARF I feed raw. Normally, id do a gradual change in diet, adding a 1/4 new food, to previous food, and increasing till its all new food at 14 days. I dont want to buy BARF, as i only want 1 weeks worth of food. Do you think it will be fine to do the immediate swap? Neither diet is harsh on dogs tummies. And ive never had a dog react anything but magnificently to raw. But a pup?

I would leave them together, when i am done assessing the risk of a fight occurring between the two. and the outcome is low. My pup arrives in 5 weeks. It will be left with my other dogs from the get go, i am very confident, no harm will come to pup from my 2 dogs. Dogs fight, it is part of the repertoire of behaviours. It is a very very rare dog, that does not stop fighting, when the other dog gives up. Spend your next 2hrs of observing them, filming a dog play fight between the 2 dogs. And watch it repeatedly. All the 'that's enough' calming signals being sent, and how they are responded to. In season. All bets are off, as stated earlier in this thread. Get that bitch desexed. Its a health intervention method that's beneficial for non breeding bitches. Prevents uterine and mammory cancers. worth it. Bitches are called bitches for a reason! especially in season.

I would. But I would train collar grab as a game first. I would also stop both dogs being out there doing this together - ie one dog at a time. And I might get some welding gloves for the first time. Or they might be spending a lot of time practicing being calm along the fence - on lead. Again, they dont go off, if im there. So i wont be able to capture the behaviour, to collar grab. My dogs dont rebound onto me. Ever. The GSD in a hyped up state, will rebound onto the rottie (occasionally), who either, ignores him, or lays on him to quieten him down, doing her own, its yer choice? Works for them. ie. i am not worried about a fight ensuing. As the GSD will back down fast. He's smart and submissive to her. I would never separate them. As the reason their quality of life is so high, is that they have pack members to interact with all the time. I like my world like this. There is no fighting, the pack structure is 7yrs old now. I think when they were younger, they had a few spats, and probably every 2 yrs, or when one is ill, we'll see another spat. All perfectly normal for dogs. I realise im sounding like a owner that bleats "i cant do that because", but in this case, there is no behaviour to change, when i am around. I am aware that there is when i am not. And rarely, but it can happen, the GSD will rebound onto the rottie. But these dogs have been living together for 7yrs now, and the GSD is nearly 10. They have their own way of sorting out disagreements, that is safe. Follows dog etiquette, and I dont interfere therefore. Wee these fighters, id be more than willing to separate them. But they are not. So its not necessary. IMO The collar grab 'its your choice' IS a method i been using for past 20yrs or so, on many dogs ive owned in that time. I love it. SImple, easy to grasp for most thinking dogs. Both current dogs understand this game to the eenth degree. They are 7 and 9. and trained in drive using Triangle of temptation. Which is the most singularly comprehensive and extensive "its your choice" style of training without conflict there is. But the one thing "its your choice" training method requires, is the undesired behaviour, to occur in front of the trainer. Which is not occurring here.

^This, even if it means 30 mins of casually doing other things while not acknowledging the dog at all. Do you food reward him upon entry at your house? Stop greeting him. I like that. Simple. I dont food treat him at my house on his arrival. I often have nice things for him in my bag. He knows this. But that comes out, IF he's doing something good at some point i like, like being calm.

Wow, Buzz made it to Australia! :D He is notorious in some circles. We used to be friends, but I went and said something about formal dominance hierarchies in dogs and he never did get over that. I am just the worst. I think that perhaps a functional assessment is more useful in these cases. What is the dog trying to achieve? Is it distance increasing behaviour or frustration? What is contributing to the arousal? These are questions we can answer to some extent, by observing how the dog's behaviour changes when we change the consequences, and will be useful in treating it. Get the arousal down and you're usually halfway there with this kind of thing. Prevent practice, reinforce an incompatible behaviour, make sure the dog is getting suitable outlets etc. The dogs have different things to achieve, the GSD is all about creating distance. Which of course he appears to do from his perspective, as the passers by - pass by. The rottie is loving the chase game. But also escalating in how hyped up she gets, she has to be prevented from running, for health reasons, my main motivation behind preventing this behaviour reoccurring, being rehearsed. So behind the 2nd fence line works. the dogs are not being triggered by visual sight of the offenders/new friends respectively. The environment: Neighbour's Jack Russell Terrier, starts the dogs up along the row of properties. Mine included. The noise and intensity escalates for the GSD, whilst they are directly outside 'our' perimeter fence. Diminishing once they've passed. I want to try collar grab/choice point/mark/reward. Not sure i should just verbal praise, and ask for more in the beginning?

Collar grab - and dog's choice. If you're preventing the dog making a choice after the collar grab and some calm behaviour - it won't stop the fence running, but when the dog calms down - you release the dog and allow it to make a choice. You might limit the choices and increase your control by having a lead on when you let go the collar, but you let the dog make a choice. You reward the good choices. So the dog is making a choice without you telling it what to do - so eventually (or two grabs in the case of my dog)... dog chooses to behave how you want, you reward that, dog will learn to make that choice when you're not there. Hence I can leave a bowl of porridge on the coffee table until it goes cold... and she will leave it alone until I get back in the room and then she will ask me if she can have it. I've come back into the kitchen to see her drooling next to her bucket of kibble with the lid off cos I forgot. But she doesn't eat it. Collar grab + Its yer choice. (lots of youtube about these games). Thankyou for your reply. Can you explain HOW the bolded bit occurs? Dogs dont generalise behaviours well usually. As for 9years, ive been grabbing his collar, and taking him down a notch, then offering a choice, he makes the right choice, coz we've been training together for some time now. When i am not at home, he makes the other choice, he fence runs and barks. He does not seem to generalise the right choice. So how will this help?

very interesting article. still digesting. the collar grab: works a treat, when i am there. Is this supposed to be transposed to when i am not somehow? If so, ive some steps missing?

what exactly is your question?...is it about the over aroused state?....or do you want some ideas how to train your dogs not to chase by passers? wrt over-aroused:...no matter what 'drive', the outcome is the same: dogs (other mammals...humans etc. too) become less sensitive and more aggressive due to the adrenalin and other agents released in the brain - in such a state they can be better and faster hunters, fighters etc. and don't get distracted by smaller injuries (all part of the evolution). Downside is that behaviours can be 'tougher' and affects close environment (people, other dogs, objects...). You can train dogs in an aroused state so they learn how to control the abundance of energy without directing the aggression towards innocent bystanders...challenging, but doable. wrt 'by passers chasing': it depends on what you want to achieve: should they still alarm, but stop barking and chasing on a cue?...or do you want them to ignore passers totally?...the game plan for this 2 options is more or less the same: you need some decoys outside the fence - the exercise would be that they only go away when the dogs stop barking. At the start you have to find out what the trigger zone is, so the distance of the decoy(s) to the fence has to be adjusted to keep the arousal at a level where you still can control the dogs...wanted behaviour (stop barking) gets rewarded. I dont need them to alarm, we have geese, ducks and next door's jack russell terrier doing a grand job. I would like them neutral. I'll make an effort to find a decoy or 2 thanks

I am preventing this behaviour occurring, by keeping the dogs behind another fence, with no visability of the fence line they like to bark at. So it is not occurring. Like i said, i am managing it. Would i like some advice on how to train it out. Sure! yes please. Why am i asking what drives are in play? because that is what i am studying right now. So do you know? am i not allowed to know AND train it out?

Ive read the Training in drive thread. And have been learning about various commands, what drives are utilised to have the dog offer the behaviour on command. So i am using a set of drives as: pack drive, prey/play drive, defense drive, fight drive. which you may or maynot believe to be accurate. What drives would others say, are occurring when this happens between 2 dogs. We have a new fence, we have a new pair of fence barkers. Took to it like a duck to water! Its a very self reinforcing game. And one that i am managing successfully. Here's what happens. 2 dogs are: female, desexed rottie x dogue de bordeaux (french mastiff). and GSD high drives, medium threshold to drives, and low for prey. Non existent till now, fight drive. If let, the dogs would run up and down the fence line, barking at passers by, till the passers by were shoo'd off by my brave dogs. So drives are? pack: defense: prey? If allowed to, the dogs can get pretty hyped up in prey drive, then if the dog disappears, they can rebound aggression, onto the nearby dog, and a spat ensues. Fast to start, fast to be stopped by the rottie cross. She then has him leave the area she is in. He backs down to her. Wisely:) So is that the rottie x girl going into defense only? or is there fight drive, her behaviour of dog nastiness, escalates till the GSD backs down. I truly believe, she would harm him if he pushed it further. So does my GSD. I am unable to ask this question in the original thread, as its too old. But still would like some help on this.

Thankyou for this post. It is the most singularly imformative practical explanation, that my lightbulb lit up then:)

Thanks for the link Sheena! more recipes to try. I have 3 large dogs, and a pup. Good n cheap is how i like it. Mine work for vegemite on toast, and they value it highly. Ive found the top rated treat around here, its kidney. I refuse to cook it after last week's effort. My house stunk! I'll use chicken necks in training. Generally as a treat after training session finishes. I have a burger, the dog has a chicken neck:) I tried tracking with cat food last week. He like that, and it was very tiny and dry. I need a bigger cat food!