camo

Kyojin looks like a beautiful dog, and sounds like the insurance has helped you a lot. Could I ask, as it sounds like you are in a good position to answer some questions I had: * Have your premiums seen much of a change each year, especially in years after making large claims (how long has Kyojin's been insured for)? * With the two surgeries, how long was it before the claim was approved and you were able to recoup the funds? Cheers, Camo Thank you, he's a very sweet boy. Our premiums have gone up each year but it says it's based on his breed and age not based on us making claims. I am not sure how much it's been each year but we've definitely found it to be worth it. If I can find our most recent letters I'll try and see how it compares to our cat who hasn't had any claims before. Medibank are super quick and easy to deal with. Usually takes a few days for them to receive the claim from our vets, they send us a text to let us know they've received it and are processing it, and then maaaybe up to a week later we've got the money, usually it's only a couple of days from when they receive our forms. As they pay via bank transfer it's a pretty quick process. They used to do cheques when we first claimed so that would take an extra week or so. We've had pet insurance since we first got him (5 years ago) as my sister had a Rottie years ago that cost her tens of thousands of dollars as we weren't aware of pet insurance back then, so I wasn't taking any chances this time. Thank you for your reply, sounds like your premiums haven't shifted greatly, or at least not noticeably, so that is a good thing. It would be interesting to know how your fortnightly payments compare to a quote to sign up a new dog of Kyojin's age, and location. This is perhaps my biggest unknown, the unknown future premium, when I discussed it with the insurance companies, they were very vague on what sort of premium I might expect in the future, they did say that looking at the website and changing the age was not an accurate way, but suggested they couldn't give me more accurate estimates, stating it depended on a number of factors, and that included previous claims. I did some calculations based on changing the age of the dog in the website to estimate what I might expect to pay over the life of the dog, but I suspect this is not a true reflection (an underestimate), and there are no figures available once the dog turns 9 (there have been some stories of premiums doubling at 9 years). This is perhaps the crux of the matter. It's great they offer interest free, but what happens when the claim is denied. Without pre-approval, if you can't afford it, it's potentially a very slippery slope going for something like Vetpay, or heaven forbid the rabbit or wizard. When you say "some policies offer pre-approval", that is very interesting, and perhaps the biggest deciding factor. I looked at quite a few, and none I found offered pre-approval, I rang a few to check and they all said as part of the claim you had to provide not only the invoice, but payment receipt, so definitely no pre-approval with those ones. Could you share which ones offer pre-approval, that for me would make a big difference? Cheers, Camo

Kyojin looks like a beautiful dog, and sounds like the insurance has helped you a lot. Could I ask, as it sounds like you are in a good position to answer some questions I had: * Have your premiums seen much of a change each year, especially in years after making large claims (how long has Kyojin's been insured for)? * With the two surgeries, how long was it before the claim was approved and you were able to recoup the funds? Cheers, Camo

I also was looking into this recently. Here are some issues I found: * No upfront approval. This means firstly you need to come up with the money for the vet bill. My concern for a low income person in this situation, is how do you fund the surgery during the time you wait to be approved and reimbursed. There are examples of claims being denied when the person was sure it would be approved, so what happens when you find the funds short term and then find out that the insurance company is now refusing the claim. * Policies are only for a one year period. This means the insurance companies can make changes to the policy that you may not have anticipated when taking out the policy, this might include premium increases and also condition changes. Although you can go to their website and determine what your dog will cost to insure for the first year, there are many complaints regarding extraordinary increases in premiums as well as changes to policies (such as older dogs previously being reimbursed 85% new policies coming out changing that to 70%). My concerns are what happens when the insurer decides to increase the premium after I make a claim regarding a potentially ongoing condition. I can't change ensurers as this would then be a pre-existing condition, worst still, once my dog hits 9 years old, I only have 2 choices, continue to pay the same insurer regardless of how the policy might change each year and how much they might charge, or no longer have insurance (you can't take out insurance with any company for a dog over 9 years). * There are many companies offering insurance, but only currently 2 underwriters for pet insurance. Is this enough for healthy competition? * Waiting Periods, Exclusions and Bilateral Conditions. The Checkout did a good segment on this: They do end by saying that "pet insurance still might be the best option, because if you can't afford a massive vet bill..." you may have to put the pet down. Again I refer back to my initial point of No Upfront Approval. For me, pet insurance is about removing the financial aspect of the decision of if to treat, but realistically this remains, as a consideration, at best for short term (if the claim is later approved), and at worst for the long term (if the claim eventually gets denied). With all that said, I am still considering insurance, but I will likely take out insurance for the first 2 years (hoping any conditions present themselves in that time, but not before the waiting period ends). Although the premiums are fairly low for the first 2 years, I intend to put more aside in my home loan, after the 2 years, I intend to drop the insurance, and self fund (put funds aside every week). I don't think it is a gimic, it is serious business, doing the math, I came up with premium payments being in the vicinity of $14000, and that was based on the insurer being perhaps more reasonable with premium rises than some have mentioned as the dog ages or claims are made. There are certainly stories were this $14000 is a drop in the ocean compared to some vet bills, but there are equally a lot of stories were you would think a person's claim would have been approved and it wasn't. In my case I always have 2 dogs, so to insure means doubling that figure, if I consider the life of a dog and the likely term of my life, now your talking about multiplying that by 4 or more and add to that the effect of compound interest this is a pretty powerful sum of money, especially if it is invested wisely. Just some food for thought. Cheers, Camo

Interesting, I would not expect for the premium to rise that much at such a young age, especially without a claim. If that occurred, without a change to circumstancesother than age, then my calculations are definitely underestimates as from year 2 to 3 there was basically no change for taking out insurance. Thanks for sharing this. Although I have basically decided a course of action, I hope others continue to share their experience with premium or other changes, good or bad, I am interested to see if these examples are in the minority or if they are part of standard practice. Cheers, Camo

Yes, I think you might be right, I have been thinking about the 1 year time I set, and thinking back to Storm's (my Labrador who has passed), 2 years may be more fitting for a Labrador. This will give him time to fully develop and also hopefully get him through the younger inquisitive stage. Then before I drop the insurance, it will be off to the vet for a full "NRMA inspection" :D Now all I have to do is wait for the litter to be born and wait another 8 weeks before I can take one home....I want a puppy now...lol Cheers, Camo

Thank you very much for the fast replies. I was worried this was the case, but after discussing it with the insurance company (at least for the one I spoke to), they will insure a dog for life, as long as the policy is continuous and you signed up before it gets to 9 years. This is one point I had not considered, so effectively by the time your dog passes 9 you have only 2 choices, pay whatever the insurance company wants to set each year when the policy is renewed, or have no pet insurance (switching is no longer an option unless you just want accident cover). This is my concern, getting to a point were my dog is of an age that if he has a problem it is likely to be expensive, and then having to pay way more than I anticipated per month to maintain the insurance. I think it's reasonable that the premium would be higher for an older dog, but with no disclosure and the fact that the policy can change every year, it makes it very hard for someone to determine what they are getting into if they go down the road of insurance v's self insuring. I guess this is where I wonder if at least with the self insurance, if I had had a healthy dog for it's earlier years, as long as I had been committed to putting the money aside, I would then at least have a piggy bank of funds for his later life. I guess one of the other concerning factors, is most seem to take out the insurance based on the fact that they would just be unable to come up with the large sums of money required at the time, and so paying a bit per month is the better option. I wonder how many of those get to the later years to find the premiums rising so much that they can't possibly fit them in the budget and have to drop out (probably when their dog is at the greatest risk of needing an expensive surgery). My other concern for these people is do they realise that (from what I understand), the claim can not be approved before the surgery, so at best you need to find the large sum of money upfront for the short term, and at worst for the long term if the claim gets denied. I did some basic equations using some assumptions, and looking at 2 insurers with the 2 underwriters (I tried to favour these assumptions to benefit taking the option of insuring). I wanted to see how much I would need to pay for a labrador till 13 years old. It's about $14000 (assuming the premiums go to just double what a 3 year old costs in the final 3 years). Having now looked into it, I think for my circumstances I am going to insure for the first year (hope that any major issues make themselves apparent in the first year), then self insure by putting double what I would have paid into my home loan, as the dog gets older, depending on how much I have paid in vet bills, I can then consider tapering off the amount I put aside once the piggy bank gets to a certain level and interest starts working in it's favour. In summary these are the reasons for my decision: * I don't think having the insurance takes the financial decision out of the equation. Firstly you put the claim in after the surgery so you still need to find the money, and if the claim is denied you are left with the burden, so you have to make the decision assuming the worst and be sure you can carry that burden in the worst case scenario * There seems to be a lot of "claim denied" stories that seem unreasonable. Through self insurance at least I know what I have or have committed. * With the policy only lasting one year at a time, the insurer is well within their right to make changes not only to premiums, but also things like how much they will reimburse * I intend to get a second labrador (I always like to have 2 dogs), so this doubles the cost, and perhaps statistically reduces the risk (total cost over 13 years to insure both dogs will be at least $28000) * I am able to take on the burden should I need to, and can access the funds. Again if you can't access the funds short term, then the insurance will not be the answer anyway. * I have a home loan and so effectively will be earning a good rate of interest by investing this money into the home loan over paying it into the insurance. It's amazing the power of compound interest over 13 years. * I should live long enough to have at least 4 more dogs (2 dogs each living 13 years, so 26 years total). Just like insurance companies assess risk, it's reasonable even with just 4 dogs to assess risk, and I think there would be a very small chance of the total vet bills for all 4 dogs in their lives exceeding the amount that I would have to pay, especially when considering interest earned (or in this case saved if put into a home loan). I think if I was going to take the insurance option, I would take it out from the beginning of the puppies life, and still put aside money to cover the inevitable premium rises, reductions in reimbursement percentages, and unexpected claim denials. Cheers, Camo

Hi all, I have put in an expression of interest with a breeder of Labrador's and seeing that the puppy will come to us with 6 weeks free insurance, has made me start thinking about what I should do. I have had 2 dogs in the past, neither were insured, and one we called the 6 million dollar dog as he had to have bone grafts and time with the specialist, and the other who other than check-ups was always healthy. I spent today doing research and have read of those who have benefited, as well of those who are disappointed, and it is clear this is a very divided subject. I was a bit hesitant to start a new thread, but could not find a thread in which these specific elements had been well covered. Other than denial of claims, the main complaints I have read are of premium increases. I called one of the insurers to try to clarify some points around this, and to be honest I left the conversation feeling that I had uncovered some dirty secret and they couldn't get me off the phone quick enough. What I was trying to determine was, what is likely to happen to the cost of the fortnight/month premiums when my dog exceeds 8 years. I realise there are potentially a lot of factors which determine this, but as a bit of a pessimist at heart, I am wondering if what happens is after 8 years old you start finding that the premiums increase to a point were it is unrealistic to continue? I would love to hear from people who have taken out insurance on their dog, and continue into later years, and how the premiums were effected by age, especially once they passed the 8 year mark. Also the guy on the phone, mentioned that when the insurance is renewed annually that past claims are a factor in determining premiums. I was wondering if people who have had to make large claims, have found their premiums greatly effected in future years? My reasons for bringing this topic up are not to bad name insurers, but instead to get a feel for what the cost might be for the life of the dog. I am fortunate enough that I could access the required funds in an emergency, so I am steering towards the idea of taking out insurance for the first year (hopefully discover any issues), and then if the dog is healthy, self insuring (putting the money into my home loan). I am and always will be a dog owner, I can feasibly see having at least 4 more dogs in my life reaching the age of 13 (2 dogs at a time, so the next 26 years), and looking at the sums, especially with the assumption that their premiums will drastically increase in their final years, I can see how any one dogs vet bills could exceed it's premiums, but less likely that the vet bills for all 4 future dogs will exceed the premiums. Thanks, Camo