Willem

Request For Information....

So feeling this way about massacre of wildlife on the roads, no way do I feel comfortable about "profiting" from it. ...I suggest that you stop buying any stuff in supermarkets or other shops that get their goods delivered in trucks if you don't want to profit on roadkill... ...how hypocritical... You completely missed the point PossumCorner was making, yet again, just to try and push your own agenda. I'd be interested to find the "research" backing your claims that commercial pet foods contain roadkill ...I missed the point ...of course... http://www.naturalnews.com/012647_pet_food_dog.html http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/04/11/pet-food-contains-poultry.aspx#!http://earthisland.org/journal/index.php/eij/article/whats_killing_our_pets/ http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/11/13/pet-food-industry.aspx http://www.preciouspets.org/articles/commercial-pet-food-truth.htmlMy link http://www.healthy-holistic-living.com/rendered-pet-food.html I suggest you read her post again slowly...... Nothing to do with Mercola and " healthy holistic living", or what we feed our dogs in general I suggest you read your last RFI again....

I'm exactly the same. I always contain the dogs if tradies come - mine are very friendly but tradies don't want to be bothered by dogs while they are working, common sense! And they tend to leave gates open ...'common sense' is the prevailing oxymoron...

So feeling this way about massacre of wildlife on the roads, no way do I feel comfortable about "profiting" from it. ...I suggest that you stop buying any stuff in supermarkets or other shops that get their goods delivered in trucks if you don't want to profit on roadkill... ...how hypocritical... You completely missed the point PossumCorner was making, yet again, just to try and push your own agenda. I'd be interested to find the "research" backing your claims that commercial pet foods contain roadkill ...I missed the point ...of course... http://www.naturalnews.com/012647_pet_food_dog.html http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/04/11/pet-food-contains-poultry.aspx#!http://earthisland.org/journal/index.php/eij/article/whats_killing_our_pets/ http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/11/13/pet-food-industry.aspx http://www.preciouspets.org/articles/commercial-pet-food-truth.htmlMy link http://www.healthy-holistic-living.com/rendered-pet-food.html

...but that is exactly the point here! First time in this thread that I've actually agreed 100% with you Willem. ... ...I don't think I get used to it :)... From your description of the owner and the dog, it is pretty clear that your son is in a big danger to get seriously bitten if the dog doesn't get locked away. If he tries now to stop the humping, denying of this 'pleasant' behaviour will lead to frustration that redirects to aggression. It would have been less risky if he would have denied the first humping attempt as this would have caused significant less frustration - I guess he learned the lesson regarding humping attempts now.

I might have a 'mild' reading impairment too, but I'm pretty sure - correct me if I'm wrong - that you described this behaviour in another thread recently as 'mild fear aggression'...so if this is 'mild', how would a 'typical' form of fear aggression look like?... Personally, I'm not so much concerned about aggressive dogs that show their aggression more or less all the time, as these obvious dangerous behaviour is relative easy to address and the owner would have to be a complete moron if he/she wouldn't apply appropriate measures to constrain such dogs. I'm more concerned about dogs that doesn't show the aggression all the time where you get this ...'he/she never did this before'...when attacks happen. However, if this is a 'mild' form of fear aggression and those dogs get rehomed because of such an evaluation, I'm not surprised that still so many people get bitten by dogs.

So feeling this way about massacre of wildlife on the roads, no way do I feel comfortable about "profiting" from it. ...I suggest that you stop buying any stuff in supermarkets or other shops that get their goods delivered in trucks if you don't want to profit on roadkill... ...how hypocritical...

...but that is exactly the point here!

I'm not. Nor a wimp. But the concept sickens me, maybe because I am totally over everyone driving too fast in wildlife corridors and not giving a damn. Hit kangaroos are a daily on our local roads. Drivers too lazy or self important to slow down, - jeeze how much effort does it take? I know sometimes there is no chance of missing one even at low speed, but they are the swallows that don't make a summer. So feeling this way about massacre of wildlife on the roads, no way do I feel comfortable about "profiting" from it. And I don't buy the argument that it is wasteful not to utilise the carcase. Too humancentric for words, the self-important bit again. Nothing wasteful about a carcase decomposing into compost, feeding micro-organisms and putting organic matter into the soil, which most of the land is starved of. This. Spot on and very eloquently put. I'd only stop to check for a joey in pouch still alive, and drag the carcass out of the way to avoid other animals feeding on carrion being hit themselves. Human selfishness and self centred view of the world never cease to disappoint... ...no, kibble doesn't grow on bushes or trees or ....a lot of roadkill ends actually in pet food anyway, however, then processed, steamed, cooked and boiled till there is not much of value left in it, and as this is not enough it is mixed with other crap...and then sold as qualify dog food and fed to your dog....of course the package doesn't say 'contains roadkill'...by-product sounds soooo much better. Every kg of roadkill fed straight and fresh to a dog is a kg meat/bones less that has to be produced commercially, hasn't to be shipped around the world, hasn't to be delivered by truck to the shops (thus decreasing the risk of generating more roadkill), doesn't need a shiny package or can (where cost of the packaging often exceeds the value of the content) and has therefore a distinct smaller environmental food print. ....it always amazes me how people can think that don't getting their hands dirty and buying all those products in a nice clean supermarket put them on a higher moral and ethical ground ...I can understand that it is not everyone's favourite thing to do cleaning out roadkill so it can be fed to a dog, but calling it a selfish thing to do?????....hm, maybe yes, because I'm so selfish that I want to have a healthy dog and don't want to spend my time (and money) with vets, and then having to buy all those drugs (that have to be tested on other dogs in labs before these nice and helpful pharma industries can throw it on the market)...I wonder whether those people on these higher moral grounds sometimes privily blame their dogs for what they are and that their dogs would prefer freshly killed prey anytime over this processed crap they force them to eat? ...watch out breeders, there is a growing market for a dog breed that comes without balls, uterus and is a herbivore instead of a carnivore...no doubt the mighty genetic engineering industry is already on to it to sanctify all these ethical dog lovers that blame their dogs for being a meat eater...I'm ok with it as I can't change it anyway, but once you succeed, please don't call it a dog. ETA:...ups,... I forgot to list 'with a distinct perfume smell (different fragrances of course) in the breeding standard...

I don't think I'd want to put my face that close to an angry dog. But when I'm desperate - I will grab any bit I can get. Had a boisterous and big puppy charging up to me and my dog. I saw it coming and my dog was too busy sniffing to do anything I told her (she really wanted to toilet - perfect timing with big puppy and its friend charging up). I was worried that my dog would scold them and there would be trouble but she didn't. One of them nearly got poop on its head. The puppy was big and a bit scary but I pretended it wasn't. I think it was trying to cadge treats and I was starting to get annoyed with the owner for letting it charge up to every dog on the park and us repeatedly. If it had offered any kind of behaviour other than "where's the treat" - like a sit? I would have given it some and "owned it". So it was a relief to find out that my dog wasn't interested in beating them up. Today. And the big puppy lost interest in us almost instantly - no treats and no chase opportunity. It looked a bit like a greyhound x kelpie. Really liked chasing things. ...if you are confident enough doing it, it is actually a good way to avoid getting bitten - in this case a dog-aggressive dog latched on to another dog (dog owner misjudged her dog - ...the usual he never did this before...), I used the headlock to choke him, and when he started to pass out the instructor could pull the other poor guy away (the other dog got away with 2 puncture wounds and a bleeding ear, nothing dramatic)...downside is it takes quite long till they start passing out (20 sec can be very long if you have to apply the pressure to choke an American staffy)...so I wouldn't recommend this if you get attacked by more than 1 dog. Wrt collar grab: I think even Arnold Schwarzenegger would have problems to control the head movement of a bigger dog just by holding on to the collar with the arms halfway stretched in front of him...not a good leverage... Eta: you can train the headlock with your own dog in a playful game - without choking of course - to get a feeling for the right positioning of your arms etc....most dogs like this kind of 'wrestling' games. Eta: I thought it is better - for the ones with some reading impairments here - to highlight the red bit ....

...let's hope the owner locks the dog away, because the only thing these treats will achieve is that it will make your son even more attractive for the dog and will reinforce the unwanted behaviour - the dog will be very aware about the food source and throwing the treats around to distract the dog won't fool him (classical conditioning)... ETA: ...considering the trainings level of the dog and the owner skills there is even a good chance that treats lying around will trigger food guarding that would worsen the whole scenario....

ok...it is late ....took me full 5 minutes to get it :)

You've seen how dog fights start most of the time? One dog scolds another dog for being "rude" and the other dog instead of apologising - gives it right back. And if neither dog backs down - it escalates into a serious fight. So scolding a dog or saying "no" at it - is step one towards a dog fight. Fine if the dog backs down but not so good if you set it off. With a collar grab - you know as soon as you put your hand towards the dog's neck if there's going to be trouble. If the dog is humping your leg - it's not going to notice straight away that you've grabbed it. ...I prefer a headlock if I deal with a single aggressive dog ... worked the last time pretty well when we had to separate 2 American Staffies (one had latched on to the other)...collar grab can result in a nasty surprise if it is a kind of martingale collar and you grab the wrong section of the collar :D

I would not be telling a dog like that "no" and I would not be letting it hump my leg either. The way I deal with most dogs like that now is to grab their collar and hold them away from me - until they notice they can't get where they want to go, when they back off, I let them go to see what their choice is... More humping and I collar grab again. If it gets extreme... I have a spare lead in my bag and the dog would get tied up. The other thing I would recommend trying is more subtle. Get some eucalyptus oil, mix it two drops to 200ml water in a misting bottle - and spray on clothes. It smells pretty nasty and would discourage the sniff before humping and probably the humping. Definitely it's a safety problem for the dog as well as the workers. If they spill paint on the dog or someone gets tripped and falls on it - there's going to be problems for the dog too. I'd be careful trying a collar grab with a dog that has been narky with you. Quite a lot of dogs don't like it and if they haven't been conditioned to it, they may bite you just for trying to get their collar. second that - according to the OP the dog already tried to bite when the poor guy attempted to avoid the humping. While such behaviour can be just play, in this case it looks more like dominance behaviour, which is unacceptable towards a human...and dogs are pretty good in finding out (body language, smell) who is the weakest link in the group (this skill comes from the ancestors that had - and still have - to make the easiest kill and avoiding any risk of injuries to maintain the best chance of survival)- I assume the other colleagues don't get humped?...while this are tough times, and it might cost him his job, considering he is just 17 it is part of the learning - he should stand up, talk to his boss and if required should use aversives to defend himself from being humped (you wouldn't allow such behaviour from a colleague, so why would you accept it from a dog???).... Once he made this decision for himself, it might be that the humping stops as the dog might recognize the changed body language / attitude. If his boss can't sort it out and arrange that the dog gets locked away or controlled by the owner he should be ready to defend himself...and a possible bite hurt less than constant humiliation in the long run. ETA: depending on his physical strength and how familiar he is with 'wrestling' a dog, a pepper spray might be a subtile, but very effective alternative: http://www.wellingtonsurplus.com.au/listProduct/SECURITY/PEPPER+SPRAYS ...this is my comment in post #15 ... just to put the unqualified comments of some posters (impaired reading skills?) here in perspective ...but hey, I understand, for some people even a tradie mauled by 3 dogs and a 9 year old girl mauled by 2 dogs doesn't justify the use of aversives...what did the owner of the 2 dogs say when the child was attacked?.... stand still and don't move....oh well...

it is not about punishing the dog (any training, with or without punishment would be the responsibility of the owner), but about self-defense, and that does - IMHO - justifies any aversives if required. If the guy is working on this site, he doesn't have to accept that a dogs is humping him if he doesn't want it. If the owner doesn't respond to the complaints, the next time the dog is humping the guy - and the guy can't help himself otherwise - give the dog a good dose of pepper spray into the mouth and the guy won't see the dog again. It might be a big drawback for the future training of the dog, but that's the responsibility of the owner, not the victim that just defended himself. I didn't even read this comment of yours before Willem but I can't believe you are advocating pepper spraying the dog in the mouth in this situation. First, presumably if the boss doesn't know about this issue the owners don't either and therefore haven't even had a chance to address it, secondly pepper spraying a dog, particularly in its own home could easily end up in an animal cruelty charge (if someone did that to mine without alerting me that the dog was behaving inappropriately, unless they were in the middle of being seriously attacked, I'd be pursuing it hard and sueing if possible), thirdly I don't think pepper spray is legal for civilians so there's the risk of charges for that, fourthly, pepper spray in the mouth could do a whole lot more than "set back the dog's training", it could kill it if the throat swelled and prevented breathing, and finally what a great way to escalate the situation with a dog already showing aggression. Fortunately ellz and son are far to sensible to listen to such a dumb idea. ...you obviously didn't read my post #15 ...what a pity... I did actually. That's why I didn't bother reading your following posts too closely. Doesn't change my response above. ...then your comment doesn't make much sense....

it is not about punishing the dog (any training, with or without punishment would be the responsibility of the owner), but about self-defense, and that does - IMHO - justifies any aversives if required. If the guy is working on this site, he doesn't have to accept that a dogs is humping him if he doesn't want it. If the owner doesn't respond to the complaints, the next time the dog is humping the guy - and the guy can't help himself otherwise - give the dog a good dose of pepper spray into the mouth and the guy won't see the dog again. It might be a big drawback for the future training of the dog, but that's the responsibility of the owner, not the victim that just defended himself. I didn't even read this comment of yours before Willem but I can't believe you are advocating pepper spraying the dog in the mouth in this situation. First, presumably if the boss doesn't know about this issue the owners don't either and therefore haven't even had a chance to address it, secondly pepper spraying a dog, particularly in its own home could easily end up in an animal cruelty charge (if someone did that to mine without alerting me that the dog was behaving inappropriately, unless they were in the middle of being seriously attacked, I'd be pursuing it hard and sueing if possible), thirdly I don't think pepper spray is legal for civilians so there's the risk of charges for that, fourthly, pepper spray in the mouth could do a whole lot more than "set back the dog's training", it could kill it if the throat swelled and prevented breathing, and finally what a great way to escalate the situation with a dog already showing aggression. Fortunately ellz and son are far to sensible to listen to such a dumb idea. ...you obviously didn't read my post #15 ...what a pity...

...hard to tell from the photos with the unequal coat... I think the legs look a little bit skinny compared to the bigger body...if you can't feel her ribs, then yes, it would be better for her health if she could loose a few KGs...

...has anyone information about legality?...there might be a law that forbids the consumption of roadkill, or native roadkill?...I don't think that someone would control or try to enforce it, but it is always good to know.... ETA: ...found this: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/npawa1974247/s101.html ( 5) A person shall not be convicted of an offence arising under subsection (1) in respect of the possession of any protected fauna, if the person satisfies the court: (a) that the person believed, on reasonable grounds, that the state of affairs constituting the offence existed under and in accordance with or by virtue of the authority conferred by a licence under Division 2 of Part 9 or that the person otherwise obtained the fauna lawfully, (b) that the fauna is the progeny of any fauna which the person believed, on reasonable grounds, had been lawfully obtained by the person, being progeny born after the lastmentioned fauna was so obtained, or © that: (i) the animal concerned was incapable of fending for itself in its natural habitat, ...I think it is fair to say that an animal killed via a car / truck is incapable of fending for itself?

http://www.wikihow.com/Eat-Roadkill...another interesting source - I don't want to cook the meat, but want to keep it raw to maintain all the enzymes, hence would be reluctant to pick up all the carnivores / omnivores listed in this link which would require some 'germ killing procedures' (cooking, steaming...BBQ).... ETA: http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/stories/how-to-eat-roadkill ... maybe I should become a 'DEERMAN' ...the dish in the video clip looks yummy, I guess my dog wouldn't like it if I also would start eating roadkill :)

that would be illegal pro shooters supplying meat need pretty much the same hygiene procedures as meat for human consumption from memory .yuk. ...maybe an apprentice thought the 'rubbish' meat bin for animal food producers is a normal waste bin :D ....

...that's one of the protozoans that are literally everywhere, e.g. garden soil, they can pick it up on their daily walk...it is spread via the feces of dogs, myna birds, rats...; I believe it doesn't has an ill effect in a dog with a strong immune system - normally a pup develops natural immunity as long as it is allowed to play in dirt and gets fed properly (e.g. with roadkill :D )...and not over-vaccinated of course. It is more an issue for birds / budgies - if under stress an outbreak can have a devastating result.

...so you think the tradie who was attacked by the 3 dogs should have ask the owner first whether it is ok that he defend himself?....whether it is biting or humping, both are not acceptable behaviours, and as long as there is no trespassing, IMO anyone has the right to defend himself.

I'm not so worried about the parasites, more about the overall quality - there are different bins, and when they cutting the meat and cleaning the parts the rubbish goes in one and the tenderloin in the other... and wrt taxi driving: just keep a few of the big garbage bags in your boot and chuck it in the bags when you find one...as long as you don't park your car for a few hours in the sun it can stay there for a while :D

some light reading: https://www.healthydogtreats.com.au/blog/258-why-feeding-dogs-road-kill-can-make-good-sense http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/04/roadkill-and-food-safety/#.V-C2U49OJhE

it is not about punishing the dog (any training, with or without punishment would be the responsibility of the owner), but about self-defense, and that does - IMHO - justifies any aversives if required. If the guy is working on this site, he doesn't have to accept that a dogs is humping him if he doesn't want it. If the owner doesn't respond to the complaints, the next time the dog is humping the guy - and the guy can't help himself otherwise - give the dog a good dose of pepper spray into the mouth and the guy won't see the dog again. It might be a big drawback for the future training of the dog, but that's the responsibility of the owner, not the victim that just defended himself.