Willem

...if you are good in throwing and aiming these gadgets work pretty well, you just have to hit the snake...but then you could just use a stone :laugh: ...I did some reading about this and other 'snake repellents'....I couldn't find any hint that such repellents work (except mechanical barriers). I guess there is also a big risk to do damage to the dogs hearing or at least it could cause stress if the dog is exposed to it all the time?

I do the agility beginner class with my dog and the class is using leashes and consequently collars or harnesses most of the time - all heights (walks, jumping etc.) is very low and to teach the basics it is obviously much easier if you can guide the dog via a leash. Regarding the limited equipment we use in the beginner class and the way it is done I can't see any risks evolving from using a collar/ harness. With more speed and heights and free runs the risk will obviously increase.

@ Christina, ...God didn't put any limits on stupidity - so yes, there will be people out there misusing it; however, the same happens with drugs, choke collars, even food!... etc. etc. too: I bet there is more torture (intended and not intended) out there due to misuse of drugs, overdosing, feeding too much and the wrong food etc. than caused by a reasonable employment of shock collars. My dog for example like to run free in long grass - there is no chance that I would see a snake before she sees it...and I guess she would give it a go to find out what it is. Punch on the nose?...seriously I would prefer the shock collar - the dog will associate the shock with the snake (ups, this hurts) and not with a command of his owner...training the dog by positive reinforcement is also something that is pretty tricky when it comes to snakes. I know, it is hard to argue using 'common sense' as everyone defines this term different, still: using a shock collar in a snake avoidance training is illegal while desexing becomes mandatory?...oh dear... Edit: ...and what is about electric fences for horses?...is this cruel too?...if not, what's the difference?

I can't follow the arguments of some people: how can the use of a shock collar be cruel if it might safe the life of the dog by staying away from snakes? ... is it less 'cruel' and less painful if the dogs get bitten by a snake?...do we ban vaccinations, blood tests etc. in the future because the needle is cruel and can hurt / stress the dog for a few seconds?...mandatory desexing is ok?...look at all the negative side effects of all the tick and heartworm drugs we accept as a trade-off for avoiding that the dogs suffers from tick paralyses and heartworm infestation! ...how can it be ok to bombard our dogs with chemical / drugs on the one side while demonize the shock collar as a weapon against snake bites?... using a shock collar in snake avoidance training might be a bitter medicine, but IMO it is just another kind of vaccination that prevents the dog from suffering a much bigger pain or even death.

I've got these ones too....fully adjustable & doesn't restrict movement :) She wears it during agility training & also as a car harness Sheena, what size did you pick? ...small (S)?

congratulations!...always encouraging getting positive changes confirmed and rewarded. BTW: I like your flirt pole - also I have no idea why they call it 'flirt pole'? ...why not 'dog play rod' :D ?...anyway, will assemble one this afternoon as it seem to be very easy to teach the 'take it / leave it game'.

good point - obviously evaporation cooling doesn't work very well if humidity is already up, however the increased water conc. in the air would increase the heat capacity of the wet air thus improving the convection cooling....I didn't know that about the dingoes that the northern ones lack the double coat....interesting, ingenuity of evolution?

...sorry, I couldn't resist :)

...till now I couldn't find one that fit my size

let's crunch some numbers: ... one of my food packages for the dog states: 350 kcal/100 g metabolizable energy; feeding my dog (17 kg) 250 gr equals approx. 900 kcal (it's actually 875 kcal, but let's keep it easy) or 3.7 MJ - only a part of this energy is transferred into heat as the dog runs respectively does physical work over the day. Now let's assume I roll out my entire garden hose in the garden and we have a sunny day with 25 deg C air temperature (yes, there will be temp variation - let's keep it simple) - the garden hose holds 17 kg water (to allow comparison with my dog's weight - it would need to be a pretty long garden hose so...however, dogs body - like humans - are mostly made out of water so it will allow for some comparison). After 2-3 hours laying in the sun the water in the garden hose gets pretty hot and hit peak temperature of approx. 50 deg C where it stays for a while till the sun goes down. At this peak point where it reaches 50 deg C the energy intake into the hose via radiation equals the energy outtake via conduction (laying on the grass) and convection (via the air). Now, just to get the hose to the 50 deg C (we know this is easily possible) it needs at least the following heat energy: delta temp. x mass x heat capacity of water...if I got the math right that equals approx. 2.5 MJ (assuming a tap water temp = 15 deg C, heat capacity of water = 4.18 kJ/kgK)...in approx. 2-3 hours. The real heat intake via radiation will be even higher as I neglected the losses via conduction to the ground / grass and convection to the air (and the amount the hose radiates back - but that is really negligible). Now we have 2.5 MJ in 2-3 hours (0.8 MJ per hour) vs 3.7 MJ metabolizable energy (where only a part is transferred in heat energy) in 24 hours (0.15 MJ per hour)...pretty impressive figures indicating the heat intake via radiation can be indeed significant higher than the metabolizing energy. Of course the dog would try to find some shade (if they allowed to do so), but also here the indirect radiation will allow for some substantial additional heat intake every creature has to cope with. You could argue now that the looooong garden hose will provide much more surface compared to the compact body of a dog thus the radiation into the dog's body is significant less...well, then look at the old water solar heater drums on the roofs, the radiation does the job here too. Here is a question for you: lets assume we could breed a dog with a coat that provides a 'perfect' insulation and with 'perfect' I mean an insulation where heat transfer in both direction is close to zero. Equipped with such a coat the dogs natural temperature regulating system (panting = evaporation cooling through the mouth / nose) just has to cope with the metabolizing energy depending on the activity level - it wouldn't matter whether it is too hot or too cold outside because there is no heat transfer through the 'perfect' coat at all....so why would you take this coat off for summer?

and yes, for medical and hygienic reasons (no one wants to breed maggots in a dog's fur) it maybe recommended to clip a dog's coat from time to time despite the physics (which - the physics - might also be negligible for some breeds where the fur follows more fashion than function...)

that's the point, take away the coat and the skin respectively the blood will absorb the sun radiation heating up the whole body (pretty the same like a reverse AC heating up a room in winter (with the cooling agent = blood) - unfortunately, for the dog in this case the heat transfer happens in summer. Problem for the dog's skin is that it can't dispatch the surplus heat via radiation (as you pointed out), nor via evaporation (like humans), so the only way is panting (via mouth) and a little bit via convection over the skin which is minimal due to the still very low temperature difference and the low heat coefficient of air as the major drivers for convection.

outch! ... my theory is based on thermodynamics ... I deal with this on a daily basis....

some updates (time for some bragging...): it has been nearly 4 weeks since I started this thread; despite her issues 'to focus when other dogs are around', during this time in the obedience training she graduated from beginners to class 1 and today she even made it to class 2 (she was sitting like a rock between 2 other dogs with her eyes only on me while I was walking around :) )....plus graduation of the beginner agility class will be next Wednesday. So I take this as a strong evidence that her focus must have improved significantly in a relative short time :D . While I trained her also in the backyard and during walks, I can recognize now that the 'private training' can't be a substitute for training together with other dogs. Whether it is obedience, agility or something else, or the time spend on the dog trainings ground before and after the training while other dogs are around: this interaction with, respectively distraction by other dogs adds actually crucial and very important value to the training. Of course, sometimes it might be embarrassing when she runs off, starting her crazy 5 minutes etc., but the positive overall impact on her development is significant. This positive change is not only recognizable in her, but also noticeable in the other dogs in her classes, especially in the agility class. But not only she learned a lot. I noticed that I'm actually quite exhausted after every training, keeping my focus on her, on the instructor and the other dogs is quite challenging, so it is a lot of learning for me too. There are so many tips and tricks to pick up (beside 'other things' to pick up :laugh: ), body language, clear signs how to communicate with her etc. etc....all I would have badly missed if I would have trained her only in the backyard...I can also recognize that the obedience training is beneficial for the agility class (quite obvious I guess) and vise versa (not so obvious)...if there are any dog owners reading this, who are still hesitating whether they should do obedience training and / or agility (or flyball....): go for it! you do yourself and your dog a big, big favor!!!

how much do you pay this guy :laugh: ? ...I can't get my girls to do the easiest job in the house...

wow...they have even jump cups!

...the 'lot happier and cooler' impression might come from their increased heartbeat / pulse: to dispatch the increased amount of absorbed energy their blood has to be pumped faster, heartbeat will increase etc....a little bit like having a good cup of coffee - makes me feel happier all the time :D . It might also depend on where you recognize this impression: in the house? ...or outside?...if the dog is kept in the house most of the time, there is obviously much less sun radiation at all, perhaps there is even a aircon running, hence negative side effects might be minimized or even not recognizable. And if it is a stinky hot day outside, you might be reluctant to spend much time outside with your dog, hence the chances that you see the negative side effects are smaller. Fact is - and that is verified via the physics - that clipping won't help a dog wrt heat dispatching, conversely it will increase the heat intake due to radiation when exposed to sunlight / outdoors. Yes, clipping would increase his capability of dispatching heat energy by convection (evaporation is not possible for the dog's skin!), however, as the driver here is the temperature difference between air temperature and skin temperature, the energy that can be dispatched is limited and would only become substantial if the skin temperature would be significant higher than the dogs normal temperature (causing the dog's death).

Bad analogy. Heat energy flows from warmer to cooler areas. You want insulation to keep your house around 20-25C when ambient is 30C +, to prevent heat from flowing in. Your dog is NOT a refrigerator. A dog's temperature is well above ambient except on days where it's above 39 C. Removing insulation allows body heat to get out! There are devils in the details. A dual coat is like wearing a weatherproof parka over a thick jumper. It is not clear whether raking the undercoat . . . which amounts to trading a thick jumper to a thin one . . . is more effective than shaving off the outer coat. it is actually a very good analogy. You are right that the heat energy flows from warmer to cooler areas - but you miss the impact of transferring energy via radiation and a body that is absorbing the energy...you have to look at the whole energy balance. The dog's body can absorb a lot of heat / solar energy, but to get rid of the same amount (so you have a balance of energy going in and out) the temperature needs to be significant higher than the outside temperature. If this is the case, then your theory works. Unfortunately, in this case the dog would be already dead as his body temperature has to be much higher than the normal body temperature of 38-39 deg.

The physics is absolutely clear. Unless the air temperature is higher than your dog's body temperature, clipping will cool the dog. Where outside is cooler than inside, insulation keeps heat in. The double coat is like a good jumper or a blanket. Clipping removes the insulation and allows body heat to escape. If you want to win shows . . . clipping may be bad. A think coat provides some protection against scratches and mozzies, and may allow a wet dog to enjoy evaporative cooling for longer (like a wet sweater). But if it's not a century day, dogs are warmer than air temperature. Clipping and undercoat stripping make it easier to shed body heat. ...that's only a part of the physics - you forgot the heat / sun radiation; take the car as a simple example: you have an outside temperature of 25 deg C - no AC running. According to your theory the temperature inside the car should never exceed 25 deg C. We all know that this is not true, the car will absorb the solar energy and it won't take long and the temperature inside the car is much higher than outside. Without the coat the dogs body will absorb much more heat energy, however, beside a small fraction he can get rid off via convection and radiation, the biggest part has to be discharged by his 'radiator' (=tongue). So the poorer the insulation, the more work his specific cooling system has to do. Another example: according to your theory the bitumen should never have a higher temperature than the air - again, we all know that this isn't correct. The 'physics' you cite works for us humans - but only because we can get rid of the heat via our skin respectively by sweating. Ask your vet if you don't believe this.

...cheapest cheapo on eBay ...or if you change your mind and go for quality respectively something longer lasting My link

...or you could have a look at crazy sales

...My link ...yes, you get what you pay for, but it was (and still is - it is actually still working) good enough for familiarizing her with the tunnel...and for AU$ 16... :D

...I guess you also believe then that your electricity bill for your aircon is lower if the house has poor insulation? :D ...because without insulation it is much cooler in summer?...take the fridge as an example: the dogs tongue is the radiator, the lounges the compressor, the dog's body the fridge - to keep everything cooler inside, the fridge needs a good insulation otherwise the compressor will be worn out very soon...or take your car as an example: all the cars have pretty poor insulation, that's why they get incredible hot inside in summer - same happens with a dog if you take their insulation away.

yes, the corn has been swapped for brown rice (that's good) according to their website, but the rating and sas and my previous comments refer to the old formula (with corn and no salt conc. mentioned).

...that's pretty much like little kids, isn't it :D ?