Willem

ideally yes, but she was a fair drive away from us, I was too keen and did not want to miss the chance to adopt her and took the owner saying she is ok with kids, cats, dogs and birds without knowing there would be so much timidness. ...but you knew it was a Great Dane and not a toy poodle?...my sympathy for acting like that is pretty limited - that is just irresponsible. thanks for your help with what to do now. already feeling like crap! I like to call a spade a spade - for you the ship is sailed, but others reading this thread hopefully think twice before they embark on such a journey, and if my comments spare only 1 dog a similar fate they already fulfilled their purpose...

ideally yes, but she was a fair drive away from us, I was too keen and did not want to miss the chance to adopt her and took the owner saying she is ok with kids, cats, dogs and birds without knowing there would be so much timidness. ...but you knew it was a Great Dane and not a toy poodle?...my sympathy for acting like that is pretty limited - that is just irresponsible.

I don't play Fetch, so can't help - however - walking on lead gives her exercise .... and can be great brain work , providing YOU guide the walk - not the dog ;) Walk alongside me - don't pull- stop at kerbs- only toilet when/where told- do some sits/downs along the way :) ...you might have to jog at least to get the heart beat up a little bit...or walk in above 30 deg C...

...come on...

...it is pretty much the same movements / impacts when driving / mustering sheep, cattle or goats ...with the advantage that the ball is lighter and won't fight back...and that are the traits the dogs were bred for. It is 'horses' for courses ...you wouldn't use Malteses for a sledge race...or let a mastiff race with greyhounds... Saying this, I would be careful regarding whether the dog is desexed or not, and if so, when the desexing was done. Their is strong evidence that desexing, especially when done too early, has an impact on growth and bone structure and will increase the risk of ligament injuries and joint problems significantly. Eta: I found that most dogs with a herding heritage get bored with fetch games pretty soon (including mine)...especially if played with an object like a stick that drops dead to the ground (a bouncing and rolling ball provides at least a little bit of action)...it is just not challenging enough. If I want to play fetch with our BC, I have to reward her for bringing the object back - conversely if I play with the flirt pole and let her chase the lure, the game has such a value for her that I don't have to reward her with additional treats.

...why would you feed special food when the easiest and cheapest way is to feed less???...less food plus 1 day in the week fasting (allow access to water all the time) and you will boost her health. You love your dog, but remember, food is not love!!!

what I don't understand is: you have another dog, you have 3 kids etc....wouldn't you take your kids and your dog on a walk with the other dog you envisage to adopt, allow for some play and socialisation time to see how they get along or whether there are some issues recognizable?...even a car you would take for a test drive before you buy it... it is not a substitution for the socialisation with the new home, but it will give valuable clues whether to proceed with the adoption or not. ...I also would give a new dog a little bit more time to settle in and adjust to the new environment before I would allow myself a final verdict. Eta: I worte 'what I understand' ....forgot the 'don't'...

...the product can be different http://www.nobivac.ca/nobivac-canine-vaccines.asp ...e.g. Nobivac® Canine 1-DAPPv vs. Nobivac® Canine 3-DAPv (if we talk about the C3 shot)....but who wants to know really :) ?

...I can't see that adding detailed information make things more complicated - complications are caused by lack of information and keen assumption.

...chicken frames can also be very fatty...

...could be the marrow in the bones - sometimes there is more, sometimes less, and more fat / marrow could make the poo more runny.

how did you know that OP's question wasn't related to a vaccine regime considering a 3-yearly C5 shot in combination with a yearly parainfluenza shot respectively that she was only talking about a 'standard' C3 shot? How do you know that it was? where did I say that I would know?...I don't know and I still can't recognize from the first post which vaccination the thread is about... Eta:...from kirty's answer I only assumed that it is about a C3 shot (whereat C3 formulations - like other - can vary widely wrt adjuvants or modified live viruses depending on product and brand, and I would assume that there is consequently a difference regarding whether they are labeled as yearly booster or 3-year vaccine.)

how did you know that OP's question wasn't related to a vaccine regime considering a 3-yearly C5 shot in combination with a yearly parainfluenza shot respectively that she was only talking about a 'standard' C3 shot?

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/266311-why-should-we-waste-4-billion-over-the-next-10-years/ have a read through this thread...

...the dog needs training (not necessarily a behaviourist) - if you don't have the time or no one else can train the dog nothing will change! ...a few hours training and advice from a behaviourist will provide you with more knowledge, but you have to invest this knowledge via spending the time and train the dog....there is no substitute for intense training! Do you mean intense training ourselves or with a behaviourist? the behaviourist will be able to tell you whether the dog suffers also (in addition to the non existent training and education) from anxiety or other underlying issues. From what you described for me it looks more like a neglected dog that was fed over 2 years, but had no further interaction with humans. So what happend is: the dog had to learn by herself where to pee and poo, how to entertain herself etc. and therefore developed her own rules for the last 2 years. No one taught the dog what is wanted and what is unwanted behaviour, hence she just can't know it. The difference when raising and training a pup is that the unwanted behaviour is addressed and corrected from the beginning, and if done correctly won't manifest in the dog. Therefore it is much easier and less time consuming. Conversely you face the following challenge: you can train your dog in the morning and in the evening, and after a while she will learn to poo outside etc. - when you are around!...but over the day, when she is by herself, she will just do what she did for the last 2 years. She won't generalize that she shouldn't poo / pee inside the house also if she is on her own...and you can't blame her for this. Hence the training becomes more time consuming and requires much more monitoring. I don't think - assuming that there are no other underlying issues - that the training is especially difficult, it is just that it requires more or less around the clock presence of a trainer. You have to catch up with 2 years lack of training plus you have to erase the manifested unwanted behaviour - and that requires more than half an hour training in the evening and in the morning. The options you have IMO are: intense training more or less around the clock for the next half year (by yourself or someone else), or kennel in the garden for the time she is on her own - but this means that she might never become a 'house' dog. rehoming the dog

That... ...and I wouldn't use vick or something else - it might stop the dog biting on it, but he might develop some serious aversion to the leash and that will increase your problems when you want to attach the leash.

...the dog needs training (not necessarily a behaviourist) - if you don't have the time or no one else can train the dog nothing will change! ...a few hours training and advice from a behaviourist will provide you with more knowledge, but you have to invest this knowledge via spending the time and train the dog....there is no substitute for intense training!

Yes...let him run around with the long line attached, while you are training & then if he runs past you, just step on it. The knots will stop it slipping from under your feet. It is not a good idea to reach down & grab a long line that a puppy is running with, as it can give you rope burn. Of course I am assuming you are training in an enclosed area, you wouldn't let him run around in an area where he could get tangled up. IMO it is also not a good idea to step on it, for a few reasons: the rope / leash can be tangled around a leg, happens easily when the dog runs a little bit wild - stepping on the leash followed by a harsh stopp could lead to serious injuries, ligament ruptures or broken legs. and if it is not tangled, the impact a sudden stop causes for a fast running dog is equivalent to a very sever jerk. and if you can't stop the dog with this sever jerk, it might be enough to get you out of balance... if it is enclosed, he can run around without leash - if the leash is attached, hold the leash in your hand and keep the control all the time.

I use a martingale collar (nylon) without a buckle that I can just slip over - it's adjusted that it doesn't choke when it's tight, hence normally it sits very, very loose. Sitting loose might help your dog to accept it easier. No matter whether your dog likes it or not - she has to get used to it. Try to distract her, treats, games (best you only play with her after fitting the collar) and persistence.

wrt dog from pounds vs breeders / backyard breeders: when the decision was made for a dog for our family (with 2 little kids) I didn't want to take the risk to end up with a problem dog - instead I wanted a dog with known traits we could train / shape from young age. Plus I wanted an entire dog...and there is - dare that I say it - also the fee that exceeds (sometimes) or is similar to the price you have to pay for a pup from a backyard breeder. Hence when we found a backyard breeder with a litter not far from us, who offered not only all the required paperwork for registration and first vaccination, but also asking for a price that was similar to the fee we had to pay for a dog from the pound the unanimous decision was made for one of the backyard breeder's pups.

he missed one important point in this article: the arousal state!...the comparison with wolves and bisons has the flaw that it describes only one scenario where the wolves might be (not always!) are able to minimize the risk of injuries. Consider a dog fight where dogs in a high aroused state bite each other - and then throw the bonker ...Huh!... :D IMO the employment of positive punishment requires a very good assessment of the arousal state of the dog - if you get this wrong there is a good chance that the positive punishment will fail as a trainings method. Eta: he mentioned the arousal state once in his article ...'This interrupts even the most aroused behavior if you have pre-conditioned the dog to the “NO” followed by the intolerable bonk'...but 2 dogs in the zone fighting each other can be both 'pre-conditioned' to 'NO' and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't listen to 'NO' nor would throwing the bonker do anything to stop the fight. Eta:...sorry...got a little bit off-topic...

wrt GW: I'm not against punishment, but he seems to be totally one-sided, e.g. : how easy would it be to make the scooter a positive experience just by positive reinforcement?...tell the dog, 'hey, it is just a scooter', get her focus back from the object, reward with a good treat and praise...2-3 times and you will achieve just the same. If you need really positive punishment for such a basic and simple scenario then you should rethink your whole training.

Well... Gary Wilkes first started doing it with herding breeds in agility if I remember correctly. It's not the object that is important. It's the fact it's a startling stimulus and it comes at a time when the dog is focused wholly on something else. You don't wait for them to look at you and cry "Hup!" and toss them a pillow. If you've ever had someone toss a jumper or something at you while you're trying to do your homework, you might appreciate why it's punishing. You might have asked for the jumper 2 minutes ago, but that doesn't mean you want it rushing towards your face when you are busy with something else and have limited capacity to catch or avoid it. Man, I hate to post GW explaining this, but there you go: In the VAST MAJORITY OF CASES, I do not like this approach. I do not like suppressing behaviour, and I'd far rather work on building behaviours with positive reinforcement from the ground up. Even where behaviour may be dangerous to the dog or to others, I am still very reluctant to attempt to suppress it, because it's complicated and sometimes hard to predict the outcomes, and if the dog is behaving that way because they are already frightened or anxious, I find it very difficult to justify perpetuating that. GW seems to favour it a lot regardless of arousal and emotional state, to the point where it has made him very unpopular in some circles. :D ...I have 2 younger daughters who try to prank and shock me all the time - I'm conditioned not to respond with the expected reaction to this kind of stimuli :laugh:

Thanks - got it ...I used the clicker more or less only for the very basic LAT/LAM games where I clicked and rewarded the same time her focus was back on me. I'm still not sure whether it was due to this kind of clicker training or just the time I spent with her that developed such a strong bond - the original problems we had to get her focus when other dogs were around just disappeared and today I can click with my fingers or make a clicking noise with my tongue or call her name and there are no problems at all to get her focus.

ok, learned something again; I actually use 'YES' as a bridge, I guess that would be similar to the click?....e.g. in agility we training remote handling so she has to know what the seesaw, tunnel etc. means...sometimes she is not sure and a 'YES' confirms that she is on the right way...conversely a 'NO' will make her stop and looking in my direction asking for guidance (which would be my arms pointing to the right object)...if her look she gives me - in case of a 'NO' - could kill I wouldn't be here anymore :D ...