squeak

Too me green poo isn't normal - I would think it might possibly mean infection. If it was my pup, I would at least be phoning the vet for advice... but knowing me, I'd probably just see the vet to be safe.

More than willing to try techniques - and try to be very open-minded about that. I guess I just don't take kindly to having advice rammed down my throat. "What's the one thing that two trainers will agree on?? That the third trainer is wrong" Too true.

Thanks for the compliments Jigsaw. I never claim to be a "great" trainer, but I don't think I am totally useless either. And yes, I feel that they have come a long way in 6 and 12 months. Took Stormy six months to learn how to sit - perhaps bad training, but I choose to believe it is a "breed" thing and that she was still learning how to learn. Murphy has come far, but for different reasons. He learnt how to sit in less than a week - he was more challenging to teach how to drop & stand, but got both of these in less than a month - he cracks me up now when he drops and he drops sooo quickly. His challenges have been more "environment" and people. This is a dog who wouldn't walk across our front wooden deck, wouldn't walk on tiled floors and the like - now try and stop him!!! Wasn't real keen on mean initially, but with a helpful, patient local shopkeeper and Stormy as his example, he is now very much a people person. And, he has recently learnt how to put a quoit on a pole. Not saying this to blow my own trumpet, but I *know* that they can both learn and be trained - it's just excitement levels and teaching them to have self-control in these situations. But, I know that they have progressed with this - before I wouldn't have had both of them on the lead together, but now I can usually manage, though it is still a work in progress.

I've lost count of the number of times I have had to remind myself not to compare myself or my dogs to others - it is something that I really struggle with. And, as much as I whinge and complain about our two mutts, I am exceptionally proud of what they have been able to learn. Guess I am just going through a rough patch at the moment.

PF - I try to do that, but usually end up walking away feeling like I am a failure and/or totally inadequate... that I have two untrained "feral" mutts (as we call them). So, I guess I am asking how do I deal with how *I* feel???

Perhaps it is just me being overly sensitive, but I have honestly had a gutful of people trying to tell me how to train my dogs. Now, if I am at an obedience class, I don't mind, but seems lately that everyone is a trainer and "knows" the answer to all my problems. Background.... we have two adopted "mutts". One is not at all food motivated - I get all the time "you need better treats". Better treats isn't the problem with her - I can have roast chicken/hot dog/cheese in my treat bag and she will go and happily approach and work for someone who has dry treats/kibble in their treat bag. She is just a social butterfly who loves people, and especially new people. Other dog is incredibly mouthy and bouncy, but has improved remarkably since we brought him home. It is just he gets way excited when he meets new people, especially when the other dog is around - he seems to feel he has to compete for attention. I try to explain this to people and I get "you need to do.....". I then try to explain that we are working on it and it is the situation and not the training (and yes, ideally we would avoid the situation until he was trained, but sometimes that isn't possible in the real world). Then I get supposedly "dog people" who he jumps up on, and they encourage, even though I correct him & tell them it is NOT okay. How is it that I can live with these dogs and train them, yet everybody else apparently knows better than me? Sorry for the vent, just had a really rotten day and I guess I am fed up with people like this.

I'm very interested and in NSW. It would also be lovely to meet you. Could I ask that you PM MrsDog as she doesn't always get onto DOL & she was the one who was looking at trying to get it going in NSW next year.

Are you able to give us the brand name of the chicken jerky treats?

Thanks 4 Paws - can you tell me if the kibble is "flat" (the Natural Balance) or more a cube-shape?

Probably an odd question, but can anyone who uses Innova Evo (for large dogs) or Artemis Grain Free take a photo of the kibble pieces next to something like a 20c piece for me to show the size? It's just that a lot of the kibble that I have come across recently has really tiny pieces and I think that my dogs would just inhale it. Also, does anyone know where to buy either Innova Evo or Artemis Grain Free in the Sydney Metro area?

Callicoma Kelpies - $9.00 plain colours & $13.00 patterns, which I think is rather good. Also, I have for other things asked a gazillon questions by email prior to purchase & they were always happy to help. http://www.callicoma.com.au/collars1.htm

Hills Science is now made in Australia. I understand that some people don't think it's quality is that great, but it might be an option for you if you only feed kibble occasionally.

Try a product called "Air Kongs" - made from the same stuff that tennis balls are, but they leave out the abrasive bit. Made by the Kong company. I have seen tennis balls with squeakers and other odd shaped items. http://www.kongcompany.com/worlds_best.html http://www.vetproductsdirect.com.au/items.asp?Mc=Kong

May I ask which seminar and if it was in NSW or VIC?

These guys to a puppy see-saw and also say that they are willing to make whatever you require - only problem is that they are in Victoria http://www.k9events.com/Equipment_Catalogue.pdf

Angelsun - if you can point us toward any links for information I am sure everyone would be grateful.

Nope, you don't sound like a crazy person to me, as I have actually been pondering a similar question recently - not so much the sin binning part, but the part of quitting whilst your dog is enjoying training (I have a problem keeping training sessions short!) The only thing that I can come up with is that there is a difference between sin binning and training. Sin binning, I would punish the behaviour first (even if only a verbal correction) and then remove any further chance of reward. With training, you are rewarding the behaviour you want - then stopping training when that reward is still valuable for the dog. I can tell you from experience, train too long, any reward loses value for the dog and dog becomes bored and disinterested. Not sure if it helps, but with one of my dogs, I had basically bored her with training. The last few weeks, I have been focussing on very high rates of reinforcement and very, very short training sessions (and yes, quitting whilst she was still loving it). Now seems to be a changed dog who wants to train - though she still has the attention span of a gnat. I have started pondering the question that you have posed because of my other dog - who loves training, though like any dog tires and bores when I push his limits (he is a much newer addition to our pack, so I haven't learnt to "read" him as well). For him, it is not so much the length of time that we train for, but the mental difficulty of what I am asking him to do. My only suggestion would be that you use a different area for your "time outs" to what you use for containing your dog before/after training. If I remember correctly from Steve's lecture, his philosophy is that training should be the highlight of the dog's day, so the dog cannot wait to start training, and everything else is boring in comparison. And quitting whilst the dog is still keen is meant to help keep this enthusiasm (sp). I would suggest that you pose the question to the NDTF forum & see what the trainers/lecturers say. That way I get to see there answer too

I don't think that there are any formal competitions, like they have overseas. I think a couple of clubs in NSW (Bankstown Dog training, I think runs it as "trains"). It is really something that I would like to see get up and running to give people something as an alternative to formal obedience competitions.

I have no advice for you, especially since I am considering trialling a sighthound mix next year! A few questions though... Is there anything that does motivate your girl? What is your training like? Meaning - length, distractions, what you work on? Also, you say that she has lost motivation for training - do you know why this is? Has anything changed recently?

These are very sturdy - I found them a bit bulky, especially if you run, but definitely made to last... http://aussiedog.com.au/index.php?main_pag...;products_id=88

Why?

A while ago someone posted a link to yahoo group for dog obedience. I've done a search, but cannot find it. Can anyone help me out with a link, please?

Any chance that there are videos? I looove watching obedience videos.