kami

Good question aziah. It is quite possible I am over analysing behaviour. I suppose on the positive side, we have lots of time to put in place good management systems to minimise risk, and promote positive behaviour. It is quite possible she is normal, and displaying dog aggressive behavior which is normal in doggie world. It is a change for us, as none was evident prior to rusty, so it does come as a shock.

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys. It is a little stressful at the moment as Annie is showing signs of toy guarding as well as food guarding at times with Rusty (food guarding mainly eliminated through feeding seperately in crates, and long lasting treats only being given in separate crates). She has never given Rusty a serious bite, but has snapped lunged and given him whale eye when guarding something. What frightens me is the unpredictability of Annies behaviour. The part I am really struggling with is the impending birth of our son. I am frightened that Annie may start resource guarding around food/toys from our son as well. While you can never leave a dog unsupervised around a young child or baby, it does make me nervous as toddlers invariably drop food, and will grab things they are interested in to explore. I am particularly nervous as Annie does not growl, but will snarl and just lash out. On the plus side we do have a fair bit of time before son is crawling/walking. We are going to arrange for Annie to see our usual trainers, and maybe even a new one just in case of an additional perspective, so we can get help to really 'bombproof' (though she never really will be bombproof) Annie as much as possible to see humans approaching her food /toys as a good thing (which she has prior to second dog - would and will exchange toys for treats, wait for food ect, drop bones for treats ect - but not so much if rusty is there). We are willing to commit to trainers every couple of weeks to monthly to work on this stuff with us for a few months with us then continuing this ourselves. What we would like to do: - lots of positive associations between food/humans, get professional help to ensure we go about making lots of awesome positive associations between humans/food for Annie in the hopes it will for the little one - have a dog free area in our lounge room with baby gates - continue separated feeding, but introduce feeding dinner in other areas with positive food/human reinforcement so hopefully Annie doesn't develop crate guarding (she has shown one onstance of this). - continue working with small treats and nilf and alternate rewarding with both dogs(if rusty gets something, so does annie, for giving him space/a trick). Any ideas? Its really hard to ignore the protective part of me that wants to ensure our son is safe, that part of me also is quite frightened of Annies aggression towards Rusty, particularly given her lack of warning signals to dogs and humans (at the vet) when she is going to snap. Is it dangerous to have a dog that shows these behaviours when you will have a child in the house? We love Annie very much, and have worked very hard to get her calmer and more balanced, and are willing to continue to work on these issues - but I still feel very strong fears and concerns about baby's safety. We have considered returning Rusty at various points, as this behaviour was not evident prior to having a second dog, however we love Rusty dearly, and Annie also loves him 95 % of the time. God forbid, the thought of rehoming Annie has also crossed our minds, as we wonder about the safety of her around our baby (rusty on the other hand, is much more relaxed and less fixated on humans/food despite being a beagle) . We always have believed a dog is for life, but I could not forgive myself if she hurt our son. Do not fear, this is not an option we would consider lightly or easily. Thoughts? Are we mad for persevering and trying so hard? Does Annie have good prospects for rehabilitation with serious early intervention? What should come first? A little note to anyone who reads this after considering adding a second dog, be careful as your seemingly aggression free dog may prove otherwise when you add a second dog into the mix. Susie.

play time

So, having gotten a second dog, I finally have time for an update (lol). In the end we went with the beagle I was so certain was not right for us - hence to be known as Rusty the destroyer. Whilst he is a destructo dog compared to Annie, this is outweighed by the many other positive qualities he has. Rusty has: - Managed to eat some undoubtably tasty solar lighting flowers. - excavated under the decking in the search for that mysterious 'smell'. - is working on perfecting the snatch n grab when it comes to washing on the line. - has trained us very well to reward him for leaving the kitchen and pantry )off limits area) to counteract his selective hearing - taught Annie the joys of tug of war with our clothing. - chomped his way through 1 teflon coated bed, and two cheaper normal beds. - assisted with gardening duties by eating multiple potted plants and their roots. - many other items that have now paled in significance. But we do really love him. Rusty is eager to learn, is learning to pay attention to us rather than his nose, and is, as the guys from Underdog said, 'bombproof'. A complete opposite to Annie. He is the ultimate cool cat, some anxiety issues (we presume from previous owners - he was apparently crate trained, but terrified of the crate - his prev owners used to keep a choker collar on him as he managed to chew other collars off). His anxiety issues have easy resolved with early intervention. Good with our pet pigeon, children, other dogs and rarely jumps up on people. Has the most gentle spirit, and the softest mouth for taking treats. Incredibly tolerant of Annie who we have learnt is: - a food guarder (easily managed by seperate crate feeding, and long lasting treats only in crates) - severely anxious in comparison to Rusty. - requires much management in positive reinforcing of polite doggy manners. - more anxious, but less bored having a friend who can keep up with games of chasey and who she can play bitey face with. - can now be left with Rusty in the backyard while we go out without howling/barking! (Progress!!!) Retrospectively, did we just make our lives much harder by getting a second dog, especially a baby on the way? Undoubtably. Have we considered taking our delightful scamp back? In the first horrible month, yes. For me, for the first horrible three months. Would we do it all again if we knew what we do now? Huw says, in a heart beat. I say, I am not sure. It has made us aware of how much work Annie is in comparison, managing her behaviourally, is a constant ongoing job to ensure she remains level. Annie's beauty lies in what she is achieving within obedience, and her readiness to please. Rusty on the other hand, despite being a destructo dog, is a lesson in relaxation for us. It wouldnt be a new addition update without a super cute video/pics, so I will post some soon, Til next time, Susie, Huw, Annie and Rusty the destroyer.

Thanks for the replies guys, that was pretty much what i thought would happen - so we ended up holding on to the trytophan in case we managed to wean Annie off the prozac, but didnt give it at the time as I thought it might induce serotonin syndrome. We did discuss it with our vet at the time but they didnt seem to 'get' my concerns re serotonin syndrome or have much knowledge of it. Good to know I was right to be cautious. :)

Thats good that she looked shocked. The lady that nearly ran us over looked at us like we were at fault for using the pedestrian crossing!

I second this. Huw and I nearly got cleaned up by a lady today turning into our street while we were crossing the road with the dogs (already crossing). People seem super impatient atm!

Thanks showdog this is really good to know. I think also a greyhound may have a temperment Annie would like more, so far she seems to really not gel with staffies in one on one ofg leash time (we met another today (as it met all our other requirements and totally ignores birds) and she dislikes the roughhouse style of play staffies have. Tomorrow we go to pets havens adoption day, hopefully we can find the right sort of dog for us. So far of the dogs we have met it is: 1. Beagle (annie loved this dog, but ? How dog with be with small birds) still available. 2. Staffy from today (good with birds, settled with annie after time and a walk together. However Annie didnt like him, but tolerated him).

Would totally love a greyhouse except we have a pet pigeon. I figured small flappy bird and greyhound might not live harmoniously together.

We are considering working breeds (have met with a border collie cross today (unfortunately crossed with staffy, a little too focused on wrestling and mouthing rather than chasey for Annies liking) - she got very frustrated with how mouthy he was. So far rusty the beagle (who is still available) is winning, their play was reciprocal and not too dominant on either side . Tomorrow we meet a supposed kelpie cross (chipped as lab/staffy) so hopefully that will be a winner.

Aldi sells great metal dog food barrels, with a rubber seal. They come up periodically. One for dog, one for pigeon :)

Some great points Leah. Huw and I have had a cooling off period, and while we absolutely adore the ex byb dog and we are so close to being the right owners, because of bub it is probably not ideal.....we have accepted we are not mr and mrs. Right for this pup. Hard because except bub we would be suited... Scootaloo that is a great idea, we will have a look online and see if there is a well trained mature ex breeders dog that might suit our situation.

You are probably right Jules. We have dealt with the noise issues with Annie (non existent any more). I think unfortunately I am a sucker for a project dog after Annie. I really enjoy helping them get better...

Thanks for your input showdog. We are training Annie now to a pram and bringing in all of the baby stuff early, and doing baby cry desensitization to ensure things aren't too big of a shock. Annie is good with our nephew, who is 2. We have considered this carefully and understand it is a huge undertaking introducing another dog at this point, but will commit ourselves 100 %. I understand how some people may have concerns, but we have carefully weighed things up (and had our own concerns too) and would be willing to do what ever it takes to make it work. We went and looked at the cocker spaniel today, and the shelter was happy for us to meet the dog once we further outlined our history with Annie. She had a cute little mini play with the cocker, but it wasnt the rough and tumble play she had with the beagle - Annie seemed quite aware that the cocker was uncertain of how to play and gave him space when he wanted it. He has issues with walking on a lead due to uncertainty of space due to being caged for so long, so open space is still quite frightening and intimidating. That said he is very zen in nature, but freezes. We wont rush into a decision, and have not asked the shelter to put a hold on the cocker (although they are happy to do so for us having seen how we and Annie interacted with cocker) as we need more time to weigh up various factors, and if a home came along that was more suited we understand that would be in the dogs best interests. I feel we would be quite suitable except that Annie and the cocker are not the best match (easy going and tolerant of each other, but dont have that play spark). so back to the drawing board for the moment...but with a wistful longing for a certain cocker spaniel. So adorable.

Definitely something for us to consider Leah, thanks not aware of that!

You are right juice. We have also arranged to meet with a dog in foster care who by its description has full basic training. It does sound like a great option,we just wanted to meet a few dogs first to make sure we are making the right choice and have the right fit for dog, us, and impending bub, not just going with the first dog we meet.

We have 5 months before baby arrives, and can commit to taking it to obedience 1-2 weekly and getting additional behavioural support to assist with any issues.

Also, the shelter is a very large mainstream shelter which does not offer cooling off periods

We want the dog for both us and Annie. Ideally we want a good fit for us and Annie, if Annie wasnt interested in the cocker that would make the decision clear. We wont get a dog that is not a good fit with her. The cocker is apparently dog social. Do you know if it would be possible to train a beagle to walk in a straight line? (Might seem like a silly question, but this one just follows his nose like a gold prospector)

Hi fellow DOL'ers, I have always found I have received excellent advice on here and we find ourselves in need of more. My husband and I have decided we would like to get a second dog before baby arrives, for a number of reasons, one particularly being that our dog is very dog social and I feel that she would benefit from having a buddy in crime. We have given this decision a lot of thought and feel that now would be a good time to adopt, with the understanding that training needs and exercise needs would increase (annie walks most days for an hour, and obedience twice a week). Some of you may remember that we adopted a lovely (though initially neurotic) kelpie named Annie in March. With lots of love, training, and help from others professional and informal, and lots of hard work she is almost unrecognisable as the dog we first got. Annie initially had significant issues with seperation anxiety and some fearfulness requiring us working with some trainers and medication to get her to the happy medium she is now at. We have been looking at a few different dogs. Meeting number one with a pomeranian crossed with a larger breed did not go well (unspayed male, attempted to hump Annie). Meeting number two also did not go well, a male also attempting to hump Annie! Meeting number 3, did go well, however - i have serious reservations about the suitability of a beagle for us. I am uncertain of our capacity to ever be able to gain his focus away from the amazing smells of the world - and this is a dog whose only training is to sit at this stage at one year of age. This I wouldnt necessarily mi d, but we do need a dog with some focus and low distractability so we can work intensively on his training to a standard appropriate around young children. Rusty got on beautifully with Annie, accepting her being slightly dominant. The rest of the time there was lots of play bows ects and zoomies. I feel with a baby on the way this dog is NOT for us as I can envision walks with a pram being a complete nightmare with a beagle that follows his nose. We are starting training pram walks with Annie. Dog number 4 we did not get to meet properly. Dog number 4 is an ex breeding dog, who luckily is not fearful of people, but instead suffers severe seperation anxiety issues (which dont sound much more severe than annies when we first got her - the same howling when you leave the room ect and anxiety was experienced by his foster carer).they did not elaborate further but Annie certainly did the same and much much more when we first got her. I suppose I was hoping we could go back and discuss again with the shelter and seek references from our trainers, vets ect to support our achievements with annie. Their argument against is that with a child i wont have enough time to help the dog transition with their issues. I feel that with having 1 year off for maternity leave (extendable) and planning to return to work 2 days per week we could be actually an ideal home for this spaniel. I shudder at the thought of this dog going to a 'normal' dog type home who wont know how to put in place positive behavioural strategies with the support of professional trainers. Any thoughts? For a bit of background this is a very large mainstream shelter. They were all very impressed with Annies behaviour while we were there (she is one step away from pink now!). Thanks for any advice, Susie and Huw.

Would also recommend cottage kennels. If you are willing to pay for the premium kennels they offer outdoor run access, your dog can be kennelled with another dog social dog, and they get four hours a day of running around in larger open runs. Worth checking out, our dog loved it

While I totally understand that for some people they see no reason to take dogs into bunnings, to add a different perspective I find it highly useful to now be able to take my dog there. My dog Annie has separation anxiety, best managed by being crated when we are out. It is a pleasure to be able to take her with us while we pick up a few things at Bunnings during a week day to minimise crating time, yet have her somewhere safe with me. That said, when I have been there, it is with the understanding that this is a privilege, and make sure my attention is on her and what is going on around us, to ensure she is under control -to ensure we don't ruin a good thing for others. Would I take her on a busy weekend with hundreds of shoppers around? Never. She would be over stimulated. Do I think it is Bunnings fault that.a child got bitten? No. It sounds like responsibility lies with both parties, with Bunnings placing the onus of liability firmly with the owner with their conditions for pet entry. Hopefully at least discussions regarding safe interactions between dogs and children, and responsible dog ownership will be triggered by todays events. Rather than a knee jerk reaction such as banning dogs again which doesn't solve the issues at hand - a solution involves welcoming dogs into society, so we can learn the best ways of respectfully interacting together, change attitudes and make these cultural norms rather than exceptions to the norm.

Accidental double post

Huw and I took Annie our dog to a certain large pet store chain yesterday which also has a grooming salon. When huw returned to pick her up her eye was swollen closed, and one of her dew claws was bleeding. It was not like that prior (we pay good attention to her eyes and have taken her to the vet for a previous infection). Huw immediately rushed her to the vet, and they said poor Annie had an ulcer covering her entire cornea. She is back to the vet in two days to see if she will need to have surgery to close the eye for a while, or worse, burr the cornea. In the mean time its cone, antibiotics and ointments for her. Angry with myself as I normally read reviews ect and would get a recommendation for anything for Annie. Unfortunately Huw didnt notice until he got her in the car that it was swollen so didnt say anything. If anyone can recommend a top notch groomer for future use in the moorabbin area I would be greatly appreciative.

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