Cosmolo

Poor JRT

I would scream to get help if i needed it. When 2 dogs tried to kill one of mine i didn't scream because me and OH were there to do what we needed to do. Sickening, heartbreaking and horrific- and our dog lived.

We have 5 dogs here- 3 bitches and 2 dogs. First of all, choosing the right personalities is very important and i think if a home truly has a mis match in this respect things get alot more difficult.

Rules here are pretty simple- With the exception of a reasonable quick correction from the 2 older bitches and occasionally the oldest dog- there is no posturing or overt aggression. We intervene in sitiations before the need to aggress arises- for example, all the dogs eat together (separate bowls) but there is never any stealing permitted regardless of hierarchy- all the dogs relax when eating because they know they will never have to defend their food. This is one of the first rules any new dog learns when they enter the home. While i understand many prefer to feed separately and i recommend this to others at times- this works well for my current pack. I would not hesitate to feed separately if needed though.

Going through doors etc is controlled with the order in which they enter and exit varying. This is more to stop 5 dogs taking the door (or unfortunate person!) out on their way in/ out than anything else but it is one situation that i believe also creates good leadership and balance.

Toys are allowed freely with the exception of high value drive toys- this is done both for training purposes but also because the alpha bitch and youngest dog are both extremely drivey and 'hard' when these things are out and it is the one situation where i believe there could be a fight if we were not sensible/ careful.

Exceptional obedience for ALL dogs- no exceptions is unbelievably helpful as is exercise and stimulation. Individual training, free shaping etc is very beneficial in this house- 4 dogs on bed watching, one dog working and then we swap. We have a great 'bed send' too which is very helpful, especially when visitors arrive etc.

I don't care about the pecking order between the dogs in 99% of situations- i pat, feed, treat, play with whoever i want in whatever order. However there are 2 situations that we have reinforced existing hierarchy- one is when we have been away on holidays and the dogs have gone to separate boarding, when the bottom bitch sees the alpha bitch again, there is a little posturing from her and this is not tolerated- things settle within 5 minutes once we reinforce this. The other situation was with the youngest boy JRT- alpha dog corrected him and he fired up at her and he was told that is not to be tolerated!

Every dog pack is different though and what works for one lot of personalities may not work for another. I am sure Four Paws will be able to assist you when you get the chance too.

Its not about targetting those people who don't care where their pups come from, or making the pet shops look good. Its about allowing those buyers who are educated to a degree to be able to see for sure where their pup comes from instead of the pet shop simply saying they all come from a 'breeder'.

Yes it can definitely happen- i posted a thread not to long ago about my JRT watching a shaping session of a wooden dumbell retrieve and as soon as the other dog was done, he promptly went over and did it himself. We had never done any shaping with a retrieve of any kind or dumbell. I was shocked and thought it was great- he trotted around as if to say "who's the smartest dog in the room now?"! LOL

I agree that some people don't care where their pups come from. BUT i know personally of many many people who do genuinely care but they just didn't know.

I also tend to think many of those who don't care are more likely to get the cheap dog from the paper rather than the pet shops $800+

I agree sky but having BYB and ANKC breeders down as 2 different options would again let people know that there are 2 different types of breeders in that way.

In my perfect world i would accompany this ID sheet with non emotional definitions about what each category means AND the importance of neurological stimulation and early development. If the pet shops and puppy farms are so certain that their pups are being raised so well, there shouldn't be any problem providing such information to buyers.

I had a thought the other day regarding the pet shop issue. One of the big problems is that puppy buyers often do not know where their puppies come from. What do you think would happen if every puppy, from every possible source had to have its origin identified to the buyer?

The form would need to be signed by the buyer to ensure they had seen it and would have broad category options followed by actual identification of the breeders property name or prefix.

Would this be a good way to ensure all buyers know where their pups come from and can then make educated choices?

Hi Household dog and welcome. I have a client who has 2 mini schnauzers from the same ethical registered breeder and they are quite honestly the best mini schnauzers i have ever met- physically and their temperaments. Let me know if you would like me to find out the breeders name- they are in Victoria too. Word of mouth is probably the best way to find the breeder for you.

That sounds good Kaz. I so wish my guys would do things at their own pace at places like the beach- the old dog and the sore dog are so full on and try to keep up with everyone else. Silly dogs..!

I have the same problem except i have 5 dogs- 3 healthy, young, active dogs and 2 who desperately wish they were. One of the 2 doesn't mind not doing things- while she loves walks etc she is also very happy sitting on the deck outside. The other dog, while not anxious doesn't like to be left out and he is very bonded to me so i feel guilty leaving him too. He is also young and wants to be very active so we have to balance his personality with what his joints can handle.

She is gorgeous.

" I don't believe i have ever done anything wrong so she has not needed to correct me" :D

These are hilarious- are there any more?

Thats so wonderful Willow. My SIL have a 10 month old and a dog who does not like her (and yes i am very concerned and have let them know). When i take my dogs over, my niece is so happy to have dogs that will interact with her and it always makes me especially proud, warm and fuzzy when they are so very good with her, under my extremely close supervision. They have some beautiful interactions and there is nothing quite like it!

Many, many people struggle with the consistency required to teach successful loose lead walking with ease. Some of these people just need more time and training while some don't want that- their goal is for the dog not to pull their arm out of its socket AND for that to happen with minimal effort and input from them.

Some people arrange private training because they don't have time to attend classes and some of those people feel they don't have alot of time to train the dog to loose lead walk.

If, after instruction and training i know that someone is going to be inconsistent, i feel there are certain pieces of equipment that are kinder to the dog when those inconsistencies occur than others. I believe we need to consider dog and owner together, not just one part of the combination.

Abed- what is your definition of a management tool?

Corvus. So true.

Yep definitely bunny fur tugs or similar can help to get started.

I think what most people are alluding to abed is the fact that practical experience in resolving behaviour problems has to come into play when deciding what to call a person who deals with behaviour problems.

Personally i think that a person who has a dog training qualification, relevant experience with a wide range of dogs, owners and problems and a good, real success rate can call themselves a dog behaviourist. Doesn't mean every one of them is going to be brilliant- there are varying abilties in every profession and dog behaviour and training is no different.

Its impossible to say without seeing his body language while he is doing it wherthe its a cast/ herding type or fearful behaviour or combination of both. I would be tempted (depending on his personality) to do some lead pressure exercises and use the food as a reward rather than a lure OR teach him to target which would be suited no matter what his personality!!

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Thank you to everyone who has contributed so far.

Contact Kathy Koppellis McLeod if you are in Perth- she is an excellent dog trainer with plenty of experience with aggression, anxiety and various other behaviour problems and will be able to assist you.

Thanks for that clarification Staranais.

4paws, i don't see what the application of aversives has to do with anything. Do you think that everyone who calls themselves a behaviourist and is not a qualified behaviourist by your definition does what you have said and has no clue? One of the issues is the perception of what is an error in training too- i have had many cases where i believe errors have been made with previous qualified and unqualified behaviourists but i am sure they would not think they were incorrect- this has nothing to do with their qualifications or not.

EVERY breed has traits and tendencies we need to be awrae of. Why is it okay to say positive things about certain breed traits but not okay to say negative traits about the same breed?

Labradors typically have quite a physical style of play that doesn't suit all other dogs. I could say the same about other breeds or choose other traits about other breeds that are not considered great traits. Its not attacking a breed- its being realistic!! Doesn't always mean the dog that gets frightened has poor nerve/ temperament either. My JRT has an exceptional temperament- but he has never had to deal with strange dogs playing roughly with him (as i have not allowed it) and i have no doubt it would affect him in some way.

Remember also that sometimes a negative trait is also tied in with a positive one. On this forum i asked the question of those with am staffs and staffords about the propensity for dog aggression and whether or not this should be more of a focus for some breeders. There were some interesting answers from knowledgable breeders who suggested that some of the very traits that make these breeds "game" with other dogs, are the same qualities that can make them very good with children- high pain threshold and confidence for example. I respect people who are aware of the good and not so good qualities of their chosen breed.

She is going to be big, whatever she is!

Nek, being approved with the DPI or not doesn't mean the qualifications are there or not though. Until about 6 months ago, i wasn't a member of one of the approved DPI organisations, now i am- that doesn't mean i didn't have a qualification before then though which is i think what 4paws is saying- that there is no such thing as a qualified dog trainer.

I too would like to know where in law, it says the term dog behaviourist cannot be used except by vet behaviourists or similar.

I agree S+T- i can count on one hand how many times we have been asked about our qualifications.

Until 1 year ago, i had only medium to large sized dogs. I now have a dog that weighs only 6kg and it has given me a new found appreciation for the owners of small dogs who encounter rudeness from other dogs. While i was always considerate before, if/ when my dogs approached others- now i understand more completely what runs through your head as an owner of a dog whose size means that an altercation with another can be life threatening.

My ACD was attacked badly by 2 dogs- recovered and lived. I know that if that had been my JRT- he would have died. So to owners of medium to large sized dogs who allow rushing or boisterous 'friendly' behaviour with small dogs, think about how you would feel if a dog 5 times your dogs size approached without the control of an owner- scary huh?

But surely a behaviourist is simply someone who works with behaviour problems? If someone claimed they were a veterinary behaviourist that would be different. Is it better to say "I am a dog trainer who works with dogs that have behavioural problems"- how is that differet to saying behaviourist?