Cosmolo

Here is the end result (almost) of us shaping a bark with Gilbert. To start with, we had a bit of trouble because he scared himself when he barked, it was like he didn't expect it! Much better now.

That is hilarious Ptolomy- i am so stealing that for one of my dogs.

Danielle one attack of this nature is 'too far' of course- my point is simply that killing these dogs changes nothing.

So why on earth are you having a go at Huski?

Oh and Diva- i long for your pipe dream too..

Maybe i need to be more detailed- 9.5 out of 10 of the problem dogs i see (that have moderate- high prey drive) know that humans are not prey. However, of those 10 problem dogs, 4 can't make the distinction with small dogs and 8 can't distinguish between small prey- cats, possums, rabbits- ie- if they hunt one, they hunt them all. So while that last group of dogs can distinguish with some things (because they aren't hunting people) they haven't had the necesary socialisation and training to make other distinctions beyond that.

Ultimately, dogs are capable of amazing distinguishing capabilities- but only if they are socialised and trained early and thats the point.

Whether these dogs in question are euthanased is a matter for council to decide. But the illusion that killing these dogs will somehow make society safer is just that- an illusion. It won't prevent the next attack or the one after that or the one after that. It stops these dogs from doing anything- but it does not stop the owners from getting more and potentially making the same mistakes- knowingly OR unknowingly. It does not help to educate other dog owners with similar dogs who could be risky. It does not emphasise the importance of containment- because those are nasty dogs, not like Bobby next door or my Fido. And it does not open people's minds to the capabilities of the dog- people simply breathe a sigh of relief because THOSE nasty dogs are dead. How very beneficial.

Danielle- you need to re-read my post. Nobody has said dogs can't learn to discriminate. To answer your questions though as to why all dogs aren't HA/ DA- Genetics play a part and critical period (6-16 weeks) SOCIALISATION is key.

I completely agree Diva- unfortunately prey drive tends not to be discussed a great deal in many areas so people don't know they need to teach discrimination let alone how.

While i agree with that statement in theory- people may not be aware their dog will behave that way as they may have never seen such behaviour when they are with the dogs- dogs behave differently when thrust into a situation they have never been in- unaccompanied.

Regardless- if dogs were contained, socialised and trained appropriately everyone would be safer.

I like shaping with behaviours within the dog too- started Dexter with looking at things and am trying to get Cosmo to poke her tongue out- rude disrespectful dog here we come!!

Yep it is the Samsung Galaxy- it videos alot better than my OH's I phone- although he doesn't have the newest version. The videos are so clear- i just have to remember to keep the phone on me a bit more often so i can capture different things.

Thanks Amypie- he is so much fun!

Lol at Rommi- that description sounds like something Dexter would do.

I love free shaping- its so interesting to see the way the different dogs in the household deal with shaping too. Out of my 5 i shape with 3 and they are all so different. I love watching them think for themselves. Hope you can post a bit of video Ptolomy.

Read the rest of my post guys- i didn't say dogs don't distinguish, i said they don't naturally distinguish and such differentiating is a result of socialisation and training.

Diva don't forget, most of the dogs i know are not well socialised and trained- i always have to keep this in mind when i make statements so you are right, its probably not rare, its just that many of the dogs i see can't do it. Critical period socialisation done well means amazing distinctions can be made by high prey drive dogs- but many dogs don't have this.

I wouldn't shape it- it would take longer than classical conditioning and i'd want to get the attention happening ASAP if i needed to train the dog for other things.

Danielle- dogs can see anything as a prey object, yes EVEN people. Its one of the reasons why at times, children running or yelling become a target for a prey driven dog that has not been socialised to distinguish between prey objects. In other countries where dogs are not socialised with people they can hunt people, particularly when there is more than one dog.

Dogs do NOT naturally distinguish between prey items- its early socialisation and training that dictates the dogs ability to do this. Some dogs can distinguish very well- i have one dog here who is great with cats but would (and unfortunately has) kill a possum- so we know its possible. Most of the dogs i know have no ability to distinguish in such a way.

Do you understand what happens to a dog when they go into prey drive? Its not possible for them to get to the dog, realise its a dog and change their mind- we are talking about physiological responses.

We don't know what happened here- it may not be prey drive at all. But when people start throwing around comments about prey drive that are inaccurate it is a clear indicator that there is just not enough understanding about this issue.

Killing dogs achieves nothing. Declare the dogs dangerous and require compliance to ensure the public is safe.

I'm really sorry to hear you find yourself in this situation- its not a good position to be in at all.

Is it really that sudden though? It sounds as though the tension has been building and Karma had had enough? Do you have a behaviourist in your area at all? There are lots of things you can do to improve the situation, although like others, i would likely never leave them alone together.

Never do and my dogs get soaked.

I sound like a squeaky toy in this one

You need to spend some time inside conditioning first. And then gradually increase the distractions. Use his whole amount of food for the day to do the conditioning plus some yummy treats for 7 days WITHOUT using the word at times when you won't follow through with a reward and then go from there.

Classical conditioning- either his name or a look command or both.

Thanks Ptolomy- i was a bit scared when posting it, if you post a video on some of the horse forums i'm on, you then prepare for a few pages of slaughter!! Now that i have started taking little videos, it'll be hard to stop i think!

Dexter has just turned 3 years old. Its a real shame about his joints because he has a super personality and LOVES training. He is very active too so its hard not to let him keep running/ playing/ training when he wants to.

I shall definitely do that next time GG, it is only his second session ever on it so i didn't want to chain too many things together.

Look forward to seeing the vid Huski ;)

It is hard to fit everything in- especially because we work alot of weekends too.

Huski- its a Samsung and yes it is amazing quality- even the show jumping videos which are indoors are pretty good. I love it!

And yes Gilbert is a star- i have to get some videos of him shaping- we have almost finished shaping a bark on cue as our most recent trick!

because my weavers aren't as good as AD's Just kidding- no trialling mainly because of time and although the competitive bug is biting me, its biting for show jumping over agility at this stage. I am happy to keep training for fun. ;)

;) All 4 legs Huski- but when he is in drive he doesn't feel it, ita after that he does. ;) He is alot of fun to work in obedience, bit frustrating at times in agility (basic, tiny jumps and tunnels) because he gets so excited but that i can deal with. Cosmo on the other hand is hard work in obedience but easy in agility. Variety is the spice of life

Agree with Staranais regarding the types of walking- mine are the same.

What kind of damage do you mean brinashay? I have worked at numerous shelters and pounds and apart from imbedded collars (which can be chain, material, harnesses etc) i'm not sure what kind of damage you could mean? Or do you see dogs being walked incorrectly on the collars there?