Cosmolo

Wow Vickie, that is just awesome- what a team!!

No they aren't PF, But i have before, although nowhere near what many here have due to time constraints. Its one of the problems having horses and dogs- hard to fit everything in!

ETA- I knwo teaching independence is more than weaning off a guide/ lure- what i mean is that once we get rid of the lead, we would then go through a similar process to what others do to build the drive forwards etc- i guess the lead is just an additional step.

So do you consider it retraining if a dog is taught to say drop with a lure and then the lure is weaned off? I think thats where we fundamentally disagree as i don't consider it to be retraining to wean off cues.

Our agility classes have changed significantly since we started doing them and will continue to do so as we move forward. But i don't think its a problem (and have not found it to be so) to wean off cues. I have 2 schnauzers who have done a handful of sessions and are now off lead, doing rear crosses, working on lead outs and front crosses. But they started on lead. Thats not to suggest they don't have a long way to go, but i can't see any difference between them and one of my own who started off lead straight away. Just my opinion.

I promised myself i wouldn''t get involved in this discussion but yet here i am..

PF- do you not think a dog can be taught something one way and then weaned off particular cues?

I think having dogs on lead is being made to sound like those who do it train that way for extended periods or up until a trial and then struggle. In my experience thats not the case and as agility helps to develop the dogs focus and the dog- handler bond, the dog can then be off lead and owners can get away from any kind of guiding. We still teach the driving forward, obstacle focus etc- we just happen to start on lead in some situations. I have never had issues with getting owners to move at a decent speed between obstacles either. ;)

Poor bubba bagel.. Hope she is all better soon.

What Aidan said

M&mrc- if your dog already works well for trainers and not for you, what do you hope to achieve through boarding and training? While it is a great tool for some dogs and owners, it certainly isn't a cure all as dogs can quickly revert back to previous behaviours as a result of prior learning and owners different handling skills.

K&P, i would arrange some private training to help you with the issue. A front connecting harness may help you to manage her in the meantime.

I don't consider them to be a problem- although i do wish the panting dog was calmer. But interested to see everyone's opinions.

I have done it for one of my dogs, if i have time i will do the others too. Good luck- i think its a really interesting topic. :D

Definitely there are things an owner can do to reduce drive. But i find more often its what owners don't do that reduces it OR has it crop up inappropriately. Not playing with toys with the puppy/ dog is the big one for me.

Do you consider any stress during a storm to be a problem? What do you think is a normal reaction to a storm? Pacing? Laying in a corner panting or going to a crate? Being unusually 'affectionate', ie seeking close contact when they would not normally?

There is a massive storm here and i am watching 5 dogs.

One is laying in a corner panting (stress related not heat)

2 are sleeping on the couch

One is playing with his ball- completely oblivious

And one seeks close contact each time there is thunder and 'cleans me'- 2 things she would never normally do- in between those bursts she curls up next to one of the other dogs and is almost going to sleep.

That sounds gorgeous Corvus- you will have to take some video of him next time.

Nina Ottuson toys?

Scent detection games? (teach a target odour= reward, then hide the target odour around the house)

Megan- they are not run by the same people as DDC, they are run by the same people that run ABBA boarding kennels and Elcho Pet Resort.

I have not been in to have a look as yet but having been experienced with ABBA for over 5 years, i wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

They are given exercises to do between visits- evening the dogs up left vs right is the major one as most of them have only ever worked on the left.

Vickie, how often do your clients come to agility training with you?

I have some different exercises in my head for future reference, will be interested to see how well received they are.

ETA Megan- there is one in Clarinda, one in Mordialloc and someone was telling me about another one on the weekend, will have to find out what suburb that was in.

Do you have a contact number by any chance ness?

The dogs are all weight checked ( we never let overweight dogs participate) and we give people ideas for conditioning dogs at the park (we have a number of parks with a few permanent pieces of agility equipment) or on their regular walks. Its not perfect and not as good as weekly agility but its managable and i haven't had a dog show up not physically suited as yet.

By myself- 3, with OH- 5 between us. Attract alot of attention!

PF, do you think you would be as comfortable when instructing if you had an unfenced area? Do you think snub leads are an acceptable alternative or would you still not start them at that point?

PF- the weavers are pretty short- i'd be suprised if they were any taller than 1.20 and any others i have seen have been bigger Links for metal bases or other alternatives welcome!! OH is going to work on the bases and see if that makes a difference. Where would you get shorter jump uprights? Or would you just cut the existing ones?

I guess the other thing too is that although we don't take overtly reactive dogs into class, many dogs become more reactive when highly aroused and thats a concern for me also with runaways. But i will try some snub leads at the next workshop and see how we go- hopefully that will meet in the middle and satisfy safety for both issues.

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain that KC, I do wish we had a suitable indoor venue to use. Does anyone know if the typical horse riding arena surfaces are too 'deep' for dogs?

I think i have the Salo DVD's, just haven't got around to watching them as yet.

And yep, our focus is 'other training' rather than agility so we don't get many enquiries from people just wanting to do agility- its more that they 'covert' from obedience or private lessons.

ETA- i agree that with higher reinforcement rates the issue reduces/ eliminates. I guess thats the challenge though- i believe that agility improves reliability off lead (due to the high rates of R+) but in the immediate/ short term, how to keep everyone safe (in every way, not just on equipment) is the conflict.

OH is making snub leads for me too : )

For those of you who won't have dogs on lead at all for agility, what do you do to mitigate the runaway risk? Are your training areas all fully fenced? If ours was, i can tell you we would have 100% of the dogs off lead for sure (at the moment we have about 60-70% of the dogs off lead) but the runaway risk is a huge concern for me and for some of my clients. As far as venues go, we have access to an indoor venue- but it is so small that if i posted it here you would all have a heart attack, the surface is uneven too and as a result we are highly unlikely to continue using it. The oval type venue has a perfect surface- but isn't enclosed.

I will take all your advice on board and perhaps look to further develop some foundation courses. If i can get people there, i am happy to do them as well.

I am very sorry to hear that.

:D Perhaps the demographics of some of my clients is different. If i had the demand for more agility i would certainly attempt to meet it. Kelpiechick, can i just ask your opinion- do you think people should have off lead reliability to be able to commence agility? Do you have fully fenced agility areas? How do you mitigate risk of runaways? I do understand the lead issue and i will be trying some further suggestions to improve this.

Yep PF, believe it or not we had taught the serpentine on one side in that course. The dogs were all doing it very well, handlers needed a bit more help.

A question for everyone- do you start grid jump training early or do you not consider this to be a foundation exercise? How many strides would you start with between jumps initially?

Can you put him in a sit instead corvus?