Cosmolo

I have started shaping back up with my dogs and while the JRT is super, the big dog with not great hind end awareness has also done okay although he is taking longer. I agree with Vickie re: throwing the food back between front legs. I have noticed that the dogs i have started shaping with using their bodies only (no objects for first handful of exercises) are better 'shapers' than those i started on objects too.

I don't think the dog has to do it naturally for you to be able to shape it. My JRT never barked and i shaped a bark and Dexter never walks backwards himself but is making progress with shaping.

I think perfect partners on here trained with them for a little while? Hopefully she will come and add her opinion if i have remembered correctly.

ETA Whoops, i think it was Alpha actually- i get the 2 confused sometimes!

I also agree with bedazzled- go along to a few different training orgs and find out more information as needed about the trainers methods, etc. Good luck!

Whether you work for yourself or someone else- it is a very difficult industry to break into. You need to be exceptionally good as competition is fierce. Good luck though- i will probably see you for training if you're doing the NDTF course.

Princes Hwy is a 4 lane hwy in each direction- and people still sometimes have their dogs off lead. Feel for you Megan.

Nek- are you really okay with all of that video footage? Some of it i don't have issue with (despite the fact that its not something i would actually do) but some i find quite disturbing.

I completely understand the use of stringing up and i have had to do it myself on a few occassions to avoid being bitten. But thats where i see its place being- bite prevention rather than a routine training tool.

The roller blade one, Malamute and the scrubbing brush bulldog are particularly disturbing to me. I accept that some of the video is propaganda but i look at the dogs, they don't have an agenda.

I agree with PF's and Kaviks positives.

Hi there Myjoe- i suggest you write a letter to the shelter manager expressing your disappointment and asking them to examine their current behavioural assessment strategies. While some problem behaviour would not be picked up even with a good assessment, there are many situations where inadequate testing is being done and i feel one of the ways to change this is to create some pressure on the rehoming orgs from the very people who adopt their dogs.

Look at the tension in his back legs at the end of the video when he 'submits'. Its impossible to comment without knowing the whole situation but if the dog only had issue when they tried to roll him over, there are a variety of methods they could try- perhaps they had tried and failed, i don't know. I would question the ability of any owner to follow through with that kind of training with that kind of dog/ issue though.

What Vickie and PF said.

But Corvus, i would like to know your background if you were in one of my training classes and AFTER a class would be happy to chat theory and anything else with you. I wouldn't be happy to do it within a class though as i would find it would probably start to dominate and other participants would have their eyes glaze over. I wouldn't have a problem with modification of exercises either- that happens in my classes anyway (and i often direct it) because i have small classes and its easier to be more tailored.

The definition of cure is interesting too- i'd love to see follow ups on the cases that any TV dog trainer works with- would make for much more realistic television.

Dogs know we are not dogs too and while the way dogs interact together suggests they certainly respond to punishment, it is far too simplistic to suggest that because a dog can do XYZ to another and have them understand and learn from it that we can attempt to do exactly the same thing.

I do use punishment in training, i do use physical corrections at times. But consistently putting dogs over threshold and correcting the resulting high intensity behaviour with high intensity punishers is not my preference. One thing that is also handy to keep in mind is that it matters not what the dog trainer. whisperer, behaviourists does with the dog- if the owner does not have the ability or inclination to use the chosen techniques.

I agree that the video compilation was bias. But even when taking that into account, some of it was still distressing to me and i would be horrified to be present when a dog was 'trained' in that manner.

Sounds great! Glad you had a good time

Has everyone seen the video montage of the number of "taps" used? The frequency and variance in amount of pressure surprised me- and made me hope that people really don't try that at home!

I just went to find the vid and its been removed due to copyright claims.

I see dogs on a regular basis that are like the ones Caesar has on his show.

Snap, Aidan!

I'm with Aidan on this one- i saw the same video the other day and thought about posting it here but i was accused of Caesar bashing last time i commented on his 'tap' so decided not to.

He does some good things. But there are many trainers who use punishment (and reinforcement) more appropriately IMO

Of course, that makes sense. I do think its important to look at a trainers dogs behaviour- but also to understand some background of the dog and what the trainer might be training for. Someone might look at my fearful dog and judge me for her behaviour, not knowing how greatly improved she is or someone may look at a trainers working dog bouncing off the walls and wonder why they aren't a calm well behaved pet.

There are plenty of excellent trainers who don't trial themselves. Agree that personal recommendatin is a good way to go.

Why Jules?

Corvus, you don't need to edit your posts (well i assume you don't and that you weren't swearing at every one or something) and i like hearing what you have to say.

So true Kavik, i was the same! Now i know how much i don't know

I'd go as far as to say people don't reward their dogs enough in many cases. They expect good behaviour to maintain itself with no reinforcement and get frustrated when it doesn't.

I am sorry to sound blunt but if he bit a child at school, he does have training issues- issues that will need to be resolved regardless of whether you keep him or rehome him with full disclosure.

I think you should get help from a professional trainer first, before you make any decisions.

I am not a groomer but i have just got home after spending 2 hours tonight and about another 3 hours earlier in the week grooming (clipping, trimming, bathing and plucking) a family members dog who hasn't been groomed for months. Whatever groomers get paid, its not enough!!

I didn't realise flip finishes weren't all that popular. Although i guess i just like them because they look pretty!

I was lecturing yesterday and one of the topics was fitting muzzles- i got all the students to choose either luring, shaping or targeting and to have a practice getting the dogs (we used my dogs who have NEVER worn muzzles before) to willingly approach the muzzle. I was so surprised at the results- all of them were great and 2 of them were shoving their noses as far into the muzzle as they could by the end of the session. I have used shaping before with muzzles but never got results that fast, probably because the dogs had to wear them at other times (on walks for safety) before they were totally comfortable or they had prior negative association with them. Its lovely to be able to stand back every now and then and watch your own dogs work with others- very proud moment!!

For those of you who use headcollars often, what do you do to get the dog used to the fitting/ feeling to start with?

Corvus i love your description of Kivi and Erik, they sound like such a fun duo.

I make a living from dog training- does that make me 'only interested in the mighty dollar'?