Cosmolo

Yep, shaped it with the other two without issue. Its not that i think the movement is causing pain, but more that he thinks it might and doesn't think to offer it. I think Staranais might be on the money- will do some other HE work and then come back. I just wanted some other perspectives- i am a bit precious about this boy and was a bit concerned today when i saw how he seemed to struggle with it. Your probably right though and it has nothing to do with his joints- paranoid owner!

No, i have never seen him step backwards that i can think of in other situations, although i will pay more attention to this now.

I think i will go option 3 and do some other hind end work with him first and see what he is like with that. We haven't done alot- except lots of doodling for heel which he is very good at.

I was shaping with one of my dogs today and noticed something interesting. We have been doing walking backwards and today was his 4th session with that exercise. He is pretty much at the same point he was in the first session and i am wondering if he is trying to tell me something.

The dog in question has HD and ED and although he lures backwards just fine, i am wondering if something in his brain/ thought process prevents him from actually offering me a back up through shaping because of his joints. I don't believe its actually painful for him to back up as there is no discomfort evident when luring him back though. He does not enjoy shaping this exercise anywhere near as much as any other exercises although he hasn't done heaps of shaping. I don't want to turn him off shaping by persisting with this exercise.

Would you-

- persist with shaping the back up

- abandon the back up completely

- abandon the back up for now, shape some other movements and then try the back up again

My first thought is number two- especially given its not like i need him to do it but i did wonder about option 3 as well.

Always both and i think its important for it to be a combination for the best results.

Only use what you are comfortable with- particularly for an exercise like this where its not the end of the world if it takes a long time or if the dog is never reliable. :p I use some aversives in training- for things like a recall (if needed) but can't imagine a situation where i would use an ear pinch. A gentle touch or hold on the dogs muzzle i would consider in some situations in addition to shaping.

Have you introduced a release word/ cue to give up the dumbell? Does he play tug at all (with another toy)?

What Erny said. If you have a dog that will spit roast meat across the floor with a tablet as my dog will, i wouldn't keep trying to hide the tablets in varying foods- we did that and have now ended up with a dog that is quite suspicious with regards to taking food from us, eating meals etc. Instead, we did a fair bit of open mouth, deliver tablet, reward with food and opening his mouth to give him food a few times. Before we did this, 2 people needed to hold him and he would stress- frothing at the mouth etc- which was awful. Much better now though!

The risk reward ratio is simply not worth it. I will never understand people who have theur dogs off lead trotting next to them/ infront of them in on lead areas. Why NOT have them on a lead?

I have 5 dogs. 2 of them could be like those dogs who trot along next to their owners without a lead. But i NEVER do it because not only is it unfair to others and i could be fined but i would NEVER forgive myself if just one time, they got a scare or behaved unexpectedly and ran on the road etc. I relax with them on lead, walk to an off lead area and then they can be off and run and play. My dogs do need off lead exercise and its my job to provide it for them in a lawful, safe and considerate way.

And by the way, you would change your mind if you met my JRT. Well bred, well trained and well socialised they are SUPER dogs.

True. But there are so often variances and adjustments with $$ that i understand why some kennels don't want to take payment first.

I agree with Danois. Steve- what should boarding kennels do when owners come to collect and can't pay the money owed?

At home, all of mine are in a stay on their bed or the couch depending on where we are and i call them one at a time. The 2 boys who both have lower threshold to drive find it more difficult to wait but are pretty good and i find that they are all very motivated if they are second (or third or fourth..) dog in to train. This is typically when using food rewards- things get a bit louder if i am using a tug or fetch reward or they have to wait their turn at agility!!

When trained, socialised and exercised well (which sometimes will require more effort or creativity) i think it is absolutely fine for the right dogs.

Am i the only one who thinks it is hilarious that there is a thread on pen writing and inks subsequent reinforcement inthe training section.. LOL :D

I get what you are talking about.. but i still think its funny!!!

Crap Kirty

Jackie, if you read through a previous thread (maybe someone else can help me find it) about i think it was 2 Malamutes that attacked and killed a dog- many posters were calling for the same type of assessment etc to be done on them- the point of assessment is not always to save, to rehome, to rehabilitate- it is to determine "WHY" so that we can then start to prevent- how can we prevent attacks when we have no clue what we are trying to prevent?

There is always a reason why a dog attacks a person- doesn't make it acceptable or okay but there is reason.

Gosh that is alot of food!! Wish i had his metabolism!! Thanks for sharing, he looks to be a great little worker.

I would not recommend putting yourself in a position to poke a strange dog in the neck- particularly when you don't know what intensity would be required- you may agitate the situation further or be bitten.

Agree with Greytmate. Good for you for reporting it as well d22.

Wow- seriously impressed with Ziggy's work in that video Can i ask what your feeding regime is with him? ie, does he get all his food through training or are you able to feed him meals as normal and use extra food/ treats for training? I LOVE his focus.

In addition to what the others have said- stop any humping/ mounting between the dogs.

Spend time conditioning both dogs names at other times- pair their name with an immediate food reward many, many times. The more repetitions you do of this very simple exercise, the more likely you will be able to reliably interupt play sessions etc. Get to training as soon as you can as well!

Me want!!!! She is just gorgeous TSD

Why do you need to know about different tools? Because one day you might just come across a dog that required a technique different to your preferences.

It is worth careful consideration with regards to the job opportunities though- its not an industry where you're likely to walk into a job immediately afterwards AND the first few jobs you have in the industry are not likely to be extremely profitable. If its your passion that you absolutely 100% want as a career though, or if you just want to improve your skills to train part time or as a hobby- its worth it.

Thats great LP

Just touching on something Helen said- how many of you do use a 'good dog' as a keep going type encouragement during shaping and do you use a no reward mark?

Okay- i have 3 different dogs i shape with so this is a combined list of what i have done with all of them without any other object being involved- its not that much really, i do do a fair bit of object stuff..

Wave

Look over shoulder

spin

bow

bark

walk backwards

The first one i started with was looking over their shoulder and then progressed to spin or other object stuff. I think its great to use shaping to improve handling skills- it has definitely helped mine and i just LOVE watching the dog think and working out ways to shape different behaviours that the dog does not naturally offer.

Megan, i shaped Gilbert's heel as a puppy even though he never offered it, i can show you how next time i see you if you wanted to.

I don't think anyone would make you put a piece of equipment on your own dog that you were not happy with. You do however need to learn how to use different pieces of equipment.

Just wanted to say good luck- sounds like you are on the right track. And congrats on those agility results!

Actually, curiousity sparked- what exactly do you mean by him shutting down at trials etc?

In Melbourne you do most of the work on flat collars with workshops on a variety of different training tools and their use.