Cosmolo

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It's important to keep in mind that what happens when you are there can be vastly different to what happens when you are not there. Breed, sex, status, resources, age, number of dogs, critical period socialisation all have a part to play in inter dog aggression- sometimes more so or just as much as the owners input. Without trying to scare anyone- in some cases, it's all fine and they get along beautifully- until the day they don't. And you'd just want to hope that on the day they don't, you're there to intervene.

All of our puppy classes accept pups after their first vaccination.

Why has the breeder recommended waiting till the second vaccination?

I thought absolutely cruciate until the way he sat at the end.

Huski do you think e collars have a higher risk of negative fallout?

Yes but failure to get results can be for a multitude of reasons not all of which can be addressed by different trainers or training.

Whilst I have used them and would use them again I certainly don't think it's easy to teach novices how to use them correctly and that's where the risk of fallout increases. An incorrectly used e collar has far greater fallout than incorrectly used food. And it's not failure to use a certain tool that ends with dogs at pounds and shelters.

Is the comment about electric fences for horses in jest? The damage horses can do to themselves going through or playing around and leaning on non electric fences is life threatening.

Why shouldn't good ethical breeders make a profit?

Headcollars have their issues too- every tool does!! And a comparison to hobbles is a bit of a long bow to draw imo. Awareness of every tools faults is a good thing. But I am tired of seeing tool after tool demonised for different reasons. All have their place.

Have you seen an experienced behaviour specialist?

Just wanted to add- there is no perfect piece of training equipment. To answer the question- why not use a martingale collar- I often do. But some dogs simply don't respond to a martingale giving the handler a far more limited window of opportunity to reinforce. What is the purpose of training equipment? To provide opportunities for reinforcement. We should use equipment that maximises these opportunities wherever possible.

People say "just train the dog". Pulling on lead is about an imbalance of reinforcement. The dog goes wherever they believe the best reinforcement comes from and the pulling is reinforced by getting to access it. Therefore, in order to address pulling on the lead owners need to be able to do 2 things- Stop the dog from being able to gain external reinforcement by pulling on the lead. Start adding reinforcement history/ value for NOT pulling/ engaging the handler etc. There is no point doing the first without doing the latter. Many training tools HELP to do the first and owners forget about the latter meaning that most often the dogs revert to pulling on the lead- even if not as bad as it was before. (In these cases I think most training tools can cause problems because the dog continues to apply some pressure to their neck/ throat/ chest/ shoulders/ muzzle etc.) BUT there is also a limited result gained by doing the latter without the former! Front attaching harnesses are supposed to help the owner do the first SO THAT they can then do the second UNTIL the new behaviour becomes habit. Once the behaviour becomes habit you should be able to walk the dog on whatever equipment you like, though some owners prefer to keep their martingale, headcollar, front attaching harness etc as a safeguard or "just in case". Front attaching harnesses are accepted far more readily than headcollars and often fit dogs that headcollars do not.The connection point being lower can also be helpful for some dogs who use any collar or headcollar to balance on their hind legs when faced with distractions etc. Every dog I have ever put a front attaching harness on is already having their natural movement impeded (usually dramatically) by their on lead behaviour. They have pre existing, ingrained behaviour. The short term use of a front attaching harness can actually help to allow more regular movement in the dog than what has been happening on a day to day basis and allow more reinforcement to be provided which is what will actually lead to more permanent behavioural change.

Problem is- every unsuccessful training attempt makes dogs more difficult to train so it really is worthwhile to get a trainer to help you. I often use front attaching harnesses but it is crucial they are used correctly to minimise any risk to the dog and ensure the actual principles of loose lead walking are at the forefront of any training.

Extinction training does work if the barking is attention seeking. There are things that they can do to reduce the length of time it goes for but they are right in that it will take time and some barking will occur. If they cave now and bring him in when he barks it will make the problem much worse and for much longer

I use them- with caution. My dogs simply need off lead exercise so i choose quiet locations where they can have a fantastic run and only come across occasional dogs. I find most of the areas I use are fantastic- i prefer places where we actually go for a bit of a walk or swim as well, not just congregate in the middle of an oval etc. I am particularly careful as I have a small dog and the smaller the dog the smaller the margin for error. In saying all of that, i had an 30- 40 kg solid dog literally run into me today at an off lead area. I was seriously annoyed, the owner was miles away (although close enough to hear me swear..) and didn't think it was a big deal. I simply left.

Horrified

I 100% agree with Teebs. A terrible accident. For those suggesting owners should know if their dogs are capable of something like this- how do you suggest they find that out?

I'm sure with a bit of assistance (which most people need by the way) you and your pup will be just fine. Some pups are a little trickier than others and working out what makes them tick and what works best for them is part of the process. Just make sure you get a good quality trainer to help you.

I honestly think this is being blown way out of proportion. As someone who speaks with puppy owners almost every day of the week, this kind of situation, misunderstanding/ misinterpretation of the pup's behaviour etc is EXTREMELY COMMON. It does NOT mean there is anything terribly wrong with the puppy or the owners- BOTH parties simply need some assistance to get on the right page.

In all honesty i think the two problems are most likely not directly related. And there are a few over reactions in this thread. However the use of a time out (which is fine in many instances) uses social isolation as a way to correct a pups behaviour. When the puppy is socially isolated however, there is usually tension/ anxiety and upon being reunited it can be as simple as the puppy relaxing, the bladder relaxing at the same time and hence the puppy needs to urinate. The puppy may be going to items that smell strongly of the owner simply because they have just been isolated and are comfort seeking whilst at the same time relaxing the bladder. In addition i would strongly recommend checking for a bladder infection- particularly given that this is a new behaviour.

I agree with Nek- the only thing i would add is that if you feel like you have tried it and it's not working i'd suggest you get a trainer to come and help you. Chances are there is an issue with the level of correction- ie, it's not firm enough- the timing of the correction and/ or the consistency. You don't want to keep making the pup more and more insensitive and more persistent by correcting in ways that aren't effective which can then also be perceived as a reward!

It's not so much about where you go but who is running it-a qualified trainer, experienced with puppies who does not allow puppy free for all's is what you're after. Having a bit of a mental block with who works in that area, perhaps contact Pro K9- not sure where they run their puppy classes now but they used to be local to there.

Depends what area you're in, where you go for puppy school- ie- outdoor or indoors etc. For me the benefits of a well run, knowledgeable puppy school run in a secure indoor environment outweigh the risk of disease in most situations.