Cosmolo

I think your right LP- i often talk to people who are surprised when i talk about manual handling of puppies and are quite hesitant to begin with. I don't think we have to be extremists- i use aversives at times, train in drive, food rewards etc

Am i the only one who doesn't know what the OP means..? What exactly do you mean by continuous perving?

Many of the puppies that come to my puppy classes are not walking on their leads yet. Its something that your puppy school instructor can help you with. While you need to consider vaccinations, you should also consider your pups critical period- 6- 16 weeks. Its the most important time in your dogs life for socialisation and learning about the world so a well run puppy school from a qualified trainer will set you well on the right path.

Our vet is very reasonably priced- might be a bit far though. Glen Eira Vet in Ormond- near a train station too. We run puppy pre school there as well.

You really need professional help IMO, particularly as this pup is just about to come out of its critical period. You need to be extremely clear with the pup and it needs careful socialisation and lots of it. Be careful to NOT reward any fearful behaviour- even if you are trying to comfort her. Put the lead on and let the pup drag it around- do it when your there to supervise and don't remove it until the puppy can move around reasonably confidently with it- this could take all day so allow pleny of time. Reward confident behaviour, ignore the fearful behaviours. When she jumps, guide her into a sit and never reward the jumping up. Lots of rewards for sitting quietly.

Find yourself a good trainer and go from there. How old is the pup? Whereabouts are you located?

We offer one on one in your area and our group classes run in Clayton South on a Saturday morning- about 25 minutes from you depending on traffic. While the group classes are not specifically for trialling dogs, we work a number of dogs in play or prey drive and elements of the classes can be tailored if we know you want to trial. Have a look at our website and feel free to email if you have any questions.

A tail wag does NOT indicate the absence of aggression- it is only an indication of the dogs intention to interact. Falling dawn- how old is the puppy?

If you correct the dog and they 'mouth back' you have to follow through with the correction, work through the tantrum and release them only when they are quiet. Usually if i have corrected by collar or scruff, i will hold the dog in a sit between my knees with hand on collar directly behind their head until they settle. Be prepared for the fireworks though and if you can't follow through don't engage in the battle- you must be consistent

Cosmo is Cosmopolitan, don't have one for georgie yet as we haven't registered her- thanks for reminding me to re register me and Georgie! Any good name ideas for georgie?

Anita, how does the dog know the difference between a training exercise and dangerous situation as perceived by us? Isn't training the best time to proof and train for those times when a danger is present. So sorry you had a bad experience at training, i do agree with Erny re: proofing, but also with talking to the instructor if you feel someone is going over board and it concerns your dog. I too have a rescue dog with extreme fear issues. Although she is much better she too would respond, to someone yelling- her reaction would be a default to a drop though as we have taught her to do this (or come to us if not in a position) when she is worried. As much as they can be over used, a well timed verbal correction can help the dog to understand what behaviour the owner is correcting/ guiding/ fixing if the owner is at a distance and the dog breaks- as it takes 5- 10 seconds for the owner to get there depending on distance. Screaming a verbal correction is not what i'm talking about though! Hope your dogs confidence is back to normal as son as possible.

EmmaKate, we are running an introduction to agility workshop in late October- email me if you would like to be sent the flyer.

What i am suggesting is that a harness is not an effective tool for teaching him that in the presence of high distractions. If you do want a private trainer over that way, i know some good ones.

LP- i have to disagree about the broad example. If i am teaching the broad and they don't complete the exercise correctly, they don't get the reward. My dogs are drive junkies, desperately want the reward and work out what they need to do to get it. As long as the criteria is clear and you don't reward half efforts, i can't see how you would have that problem.

I would seriously consider getting rid of the harness and enrolling in training to teach loose lead walking if you haven't already. I have seen many dogs that have had reactivity issues like you describe either develop or worsen after a harness is put on as it does nothing to redirect the behaviour and increases frustration as they pull against it or lean into it. Hard to say if this is what has happened without seeing the dog but certainly a possibility.

What is he walked on at the moment? Collar, headcollar, chain, harness??

LP- why do you think the clicker gets faster results, arouses more enthusiasm etc than any other marker? Is it timing? (i find timing easier with voice, you with a clicker- no right no wrong but i don't find the clicker teaches anything faster or gets the dogs more worked up) I struggle with the concept of the clicker vs voice and why the clicker would be better- except for people whose timing improves with the clicker. I also tend to train in drive and am too lazy to condition the clicker to a drive reward as i don't see the added benefit.

Pinnacle, i think what Lou might mean is that there are many cases where the dogs history is unknown or the owner is not aware of an incident that may have occurred or the influence it had on the dog. For instance, the dog might have been bullied at the park but the owner may not have seen it that way and they therefore don't mention it to you. I deal wih alot of shelter dogs with no history. A diagnosis is one thing, identifying the reason for the behaviour in some situations will always be an educated guess. Not to mention that some behaviours start for one reason and continue for another, so identifying the initial reason is not always of assistance in resolving the problem. ETA I also know of a dog who was raised and trained by a positive trainer who was NEVER physically corrected, hit etc. He was with his owner all the time so no one else had either. This dog would cower when a hand was raised but had never been abused in his life.

Pinnacle, we had miniscule fees attached but we don't list prices in our promotional tools ( as it will vary with time, travel etc) and still had next to no enquiries. When i worked for RSPCA in Perth, they tried to run a free info night and it was cancelled due to lack of interest. We have contacted 8 Melbourne councils regarding offering assistance in various ways and received a reply from ONLY one, saying they will keep our details on file. Impossible to even get a park or oval for group classes through a council! Re: the assessments, i wasn't suggesting thats where an assessment stops, but if while assessing a dog i know the dog is insensitive to a flat collar and voice, then discover other problems (dog to dog reactivity/ excitability, pulling on lead etc) i'm not going to start with a flat collar. Especially given that many of these dogs in shelters (or homes for that matter) don't have the luxury of time. Give me a lead and a flat collar and complete and utter control over the dogs environment and i can train it- but its not practical in most situations and just because i can do it doesn't mean that the next handler/ owner can do it. Re: simple methods working if done properly. The methods i use are simple- i just use tools to help the dog and owner get the results they need as soon as is safe and possible. By the time i see a dog, its often at a point where a behaviour needs to stop- yesterday. As a trainer, i need to be able to look at the dog and owner as a combination and assess what will be the most effective tool and technique for them- so that we don't have to go through trial and error.

Pinnacle, i am interested in your thoughts regarding preventative education- and anyone else for that matter. If there is a way we can do it, i'm all for it. But i'm out of promotional ideas at the moment!

While i don't currently clicker train, i have done before so thought i could give my view. There are things i like about clicker training and things i don't- i think it suits some people more than others. For me, its such a habit to use a verbal marker that i find it hard to co ordinate with a clicker when i'm 'on the run'. I think they are good for people who are newer to training sometimes as it can help them to get into the swing of using a marker of some kind. Its also fun and is good for low key people who find it hard to really reward the dog verbally. Even then, i always want a verbal marker as well for times when the clicker is not handy and the dog does something great. I like being able to vary the intensity of the marker as well- i find it easier with voice than a clicker. I can take my voice everywhere- even into trial rings- which i think is a big advantage. LP, have you got a verbal marker as well? If so, (and forgive my ignorance) why have both?

Like Lou, i can give examples of situations where i believe a dogs life has been saved by various types of equipment and training. Pinnacle do you think that every dog should be able to be trained with a flat collar and lead? Can every owner train with a flat collar and lead? Just on the preventative education as well- promotion of this is made more difficult because pet stores selling puppies do not want to promote education that may stop someone from buying a pup from their store! I didn't receive a single reply from any information given and sent to over 25 different pet shops in the metro area.

I also think Erny makes an excellent point in suggesting that dogs are walked more on lead than ever before. Expectations of dogs have changed in a huge way over time- i was talking to a friend just the other day about how i used to be chased by a little dog every day on my way to school. Nobody ever thought to call the council or make a complaint so the dog was always roaming and being a nuisance. If that happened today, the council would be called in no time and the issue dealt with sooner rather than later. People expect their dogs to be able to cope with such a wide range of situations- and the training carried out needs to keep this in mind.

Pinnacle- in the 2 years that we have been promoting "pre puppy classes"- specifically targetted toward people before they get a dog or puppy- we have had 2 enquiries and NO bookings. Every other service, including When Freddy Meets Fido (for pregnant people with dogs) does extremely well but trying to convince people to educate themselves ahead of time is not as easy as it seems. Would it help? Yes, of course- but we can't force people to do it. I am interested to hear how you would promote it and get people interested in doing it. As for the adult dogs in pounds and shelters- many have already been well and truly desensitised to voice and a flat collar and lead. Does that mean they should fail an assessment? Even though i can put a piece of equipment on them and get great results? Just because trainers have tool boxes, doesn't mean they ignore everything else relating to the dog. It allows trainers and more importantly owners to implement training more easily. I am yet to understand how that can be a bad thing.

You must get on top of this as soon as you can, especially as its getting harder. Make sure if you are doing an exchange for an object or toy that you at least stop the mouthing first- hold him in a sit for a few seconds at minimum BEFORE you give the mouthing object. Otherwise you are teaching the pup that the mouthing will get you to play with them. Are you going to a puppy school? What did the breeder suggest?