Cosmolo

I don't have an issue with well socialised dogs WITH bite inhibition 'telling a dog off'. There are occassions when i would use one of my dogs to do this but there are so many variables involved. I don't consider a 'fight' to be appropriate though and in the social context that we now keep our dogs- this is never allowed IMO. Big difference between a dog giving a 'correction' (telling off) and an engaged fight

Good on you for wanting to get on top of the problem straight away. I would strongly suggest you consult a qualified trainer to do a one on one session with you for this kind of issue. Yes the dogs need to be socialised but poor socialisation and/ or bad experiences at this stage could seriously adversely affect her for her life time. What area are you in?

As kelpie i mentioned in another thread- when correcting for aggression its important that the dog has been taught an alternate behaviour and i think if this is done correctly that correcting at the beginning of the aggressive sequence should not result in biting without warning. There can also be damage done by trying to correct towards the end of an aggressive behaviour sequence and inadvertently loading the dog and desensitising them to a correction. I want my dogs to let me know in other ways that they are uncomfortable so that i can remove them and intervene, before there is a need to show any aggression.

Put her on lead so you can control what the dog is doing. Do you normally give a lead correction for any other undesireable behaviour?

If the problem is getting worse, i would firstly discuss with your private trainer to see if they can offer other techniques. If you previously corrected and now cannot- the dog could be quite confused. I see many dog aggressive dogs where purely positive techniques are impractical due to not being able to control other dogs breaching your dogs critical distance.

While it depends on the dog in question, i can give you a few examples of what has worked for a dog or two i have seen recently- not suggesting this would be appropriate for your dog as there are so many variables. Dog one started with serious dog aggression- would react at a distance of 20 mtrs to any dog but was worse with small dogs. Would lunge, growl and snarl etc. Aggression's likely cause was lack of socialisation during critical period. Combination of private training and group training using food rewards and tug rewards at different times as well as a correction chain with appropriate handling techniques. Dog has now been introduced to a new resident dog successfully, can play at the park in the presence of dogs off lead (owner carefully chooses dogs that she will like) and can now also deal with short face to face meetings with dogs she does not like. She is calm and relaxed on walks- even with other dogs barking behind fences etc. The owner continues to train regularly to maintain her skills. Her obedience skills are excellent even with other dogs running close to her. I would never call her cured but she can now enjoy regular walks and exercise with her owner and has a play mate that helps her to continue to learn how to interact.

Oops sorry Willow * slinks away feeling unwanted*

Okay- here are a few things we cover in our puppy classes. We have a combination of large and small breeds, puppies are split into groups depending on their personality and have heavily supervised play- NO puppy is allowed to chase/ corner/ frighten another. Our aim by the end of the course is to have taught the more boisterous pups to play gently with the shy puppies, and the shy puppies to have increased their confidence to play with larger or more boisterous pups. We cover- - How dogs learn - Extinction training - Using rewards and corrections - Dog body language - Owner responsibilities and applicable laws - Critical period socilisation vs vaccination protocol - Puppy problems including mouthing, jumping up, toilet training etc - Obedience exercises including sit, drop, getting used to a lead, using a release word - Health and nutrition - Independence training and environmental enrichment - Training equipment - Grooming/ Manual handling With time for off lead play as well

There are safe ways to provide socialisation to a puppy during its critical period. Unfortunately many people isolate their puppies completely until fully vaccinated and this can create serious problems. I'm not sure that giving kids with a puppy 'an earful' would be the most effective way to teach them what they should be doing instead.

What breed is your puppy and have you socialised the puppy up until now? Taken to puppy school, met friendly fully vaccinated dogs, walked over different surfaces, seen different environments? Critical period (up until 16 weeks) for socialisation is vital! ETA the vet would be concerned about disease, not covering themselves as such

I was just about to start planning a big doggie BBQ there- might have to look for somewhere else now.. Cuddles to Charlie

Oh God Deltron- i am so sorry to hear this. I haven't had any experience with such a thing but wanted to give you best wishes for Charlie's speedy recovery. Were there puncture marks? I have never seen snakes at Jells Park- how scary.

So sorry TB- he looked beautiful

I notice a difference when my boy with HD and ED has it. We get ours from vitamin king.

My boy does about 6-700 i think. He is only 33kg though- not sure if you would consider him a large breed.

Don't have a problem with correctly fitted and used headcollars- so i'm not anti HC's! It just puzzles me that 2 tools where negative R can be used with both are thought of in such vastly different lights. S&T- a HC can create shutting down, frustration and learned helplessness too?

"I think you really have to look at the dog and the handler before you can make a decent recommendation. I'm no fan of haltis but in some circumstances they are the best fit" Totally agree with this. And while i don't always love HC's- one on my young dog for parts of his rehab has been fabulous

Thats fair PF- although i find it hard to think of a tool that can't be mis used in inexperienced hands. I went and saw a labrador who had been crab walking (walking sideways) for months in a sporn harness because it was meant to be kinder :rolleyes: ETA- just wanted to clarify- i'm not suggesting we start handing out RTs in the local pet store!!

Thats really interesting LP- thanks for your reply. SO you don't use the headcollars with negative R at all? What is your reponse (with a dog on a HC) if the dog pulled toward another dog or smell? I have always used HC's with a degree of NR so am genuinely interested in your different approach Let me explain how i would use an RT as negative R in a similar manner to HC. I do use headcollars with some NR so may apply mild pressure, dog moves into heel position, pressure released. ( i am only using this exercise as an example- not necesarrily how i would teach it) With an e collar- i can do the same thing,command, low level stimulus, dog moves to position- stimulation removed. I must say, i find very few dogs who are what i would call 'easy' to condition to accept a HC. Many are not food motivated and some shut down as soon as the headcollar touches them, regardless of the lead up work. I also find many owners are not willing to go through the process- not the fault of the HC. However, i do use a HC on one of my dogs for some of his rehab and he really likes it- he is a food motivated and somewhat insensitive dog so doesn't care. One of my other dogs who is not truly food motivated and quite soft, shuts down as soon as the HC touches her and it would be alot of work ( not impossible) to change this. LP- i would never use a headcollar to give a correction. Nor do i use RT's to give corrections ETA- LP with regard to your last sentence (sorry don't know how to quote) how would you do this withought applying any pressure to the HC?

Thanks for the replies- propaganda has a huge part to play in so many facets of life! I would love to hear from anyone who would use a headcollar, but not an e collar- no flaming- would just like your perspective.

I know a number of trainers who advocate headcollars for different dog issues. The same trainers refuse point blank to use an e collar under any circumstances. My question is- given that both tools (can and should) work with the principle of negative reinforcement- why is there such a gap in thinking between one and the other? All thoughts and perspectives welcome- not a bashing thread!

Great quote PF

Just to add- i always use a combination of positive R and positive P and/ or negative R and i find dogs learn most quickly this way. JMO

I have actually found that (usually with older children though) teaching a target can be a good way to start to teach a dog not to snatch/ take food because it teaches the dog to go away from the food to actually get it. Thats the only positive way i could think to do it apart from redirecting which i think could be somewhat unreliable. In saying that- i must say that i would be likely to correct verbally. Is there any particular reason why you would like to do everything positively?

Just one question Gayle- why do you want to trial? Is your aim to have fun and progress or also to gain titles on your dog?