Cosmolo

IMO, at this age and stage, i would correct the behaviour rather than giving a command. Its just finding a way to give an effective correction. Its highly unlikely that a) he would respond to the command when in that frame of mind and b) it would stop the behaviour- when you release him, he would probably go back to biting again. If he increases in intensity when you correct- he is telling you that your correction was not effective- either poorly timed, not the right type of correction or level of correction for him. It 'loads' him which increase the intensity that he comes at you with. If he's in drive when he's doing this he's having the best time he possibly can- consider how you are timing your correction. Do you warn him before you correct? Don't let him 'get ready' for a correction- it should be instant. He needs to understand that putting his mouth around a person is never okay. I still think you should get a good trainer to help you

Given what you have already tried, have you thought about having a one on one session with a good trainer who can show you some different techniques? Have you tried letting him drag a lead around so that you can grab that to correct instead of him?

I don't understand why someone would choose a restricted breed (when their are other options) and then not comply with legislation. It will be the dog that will pay the price

I interpret that to not be rewarding fearful responses- but rewarding before the dog has become fearful which i agree with. Giving treats once the dog is scared though= recipe for disaster IMO for most dogs.

dogon- do you have a link to where Ian Dunbar recommends giving treats to a scared puppy? Or is it in a book? Thanks

Speak to your instructor- explain your concerns. We don't have puppy free for alls but do allow puppy play with 2-3 pups at a time. No puppy should be chased, jumped on or bullied at puppy school. I don't however have a problem having 2 pups play/ interact and have one watching at a distance while that pup builds confidence. Owners should be directed by the trainer to stop pups and settle them when appropriate as well as how to build confidence in a timid pup. I have a puppy school running at the moment where there are 2 very timid pups. All of the other pups played in their groups and then these 2 pups were left in the puppy pen, closely supervised for the remainder of the class. They initially both sat near their owners and barked and jumped up trying to be removed. Owners were told to ignore them and by the end of the class the pups were playing with each other appropriately and showing lovely body language. Ask your trainer- if they are good they should be able to help your concerns and put your mind at ease with a plan to build the pups confidence.

Basic rules are the same for all of our dogs- no fighting, mouthing etc etc I give my dogs something for nothing quite regularly- it doesn't affect their training or behaviour. They don't all love the same things so for instance Dexter gets more pats and cuddles than Cosmo- Cosmo gets more fetch games and targetting games.

Saram- whereabouts are you located? A DOLer may be able to recommend someone for you.

Many breeders rehome 2 pups together and given the right personalities, management and training- it can work without issue. Good luck finding someone who can help you saram

Boarding and training can work for some dogs with some issues- we have a dog doing B+T a the moment who was far too difficult for his owner to commence training- by us doing some initial work, she will then find it MUCH easier to continue the training. I would never recommend B+T for food aggression, barking or cat chasing though- it is unlikely to resove any of those issues on a B+T environment and may make them worse. A private behaviour consultation will be much more beneficial.

We travel there. Otherwise Kelpie i is there too

to Anita's post

Exactly what Kavik said!!!

I say unfortunately (probably a bad choice of words) because i was thinking of the dogs that live in fear, are shy and submissive because of their owners aggression- i think thats unfortunate- not that i would prefer them to be aggressive

A qualified trainer with practical experience in dealing with behaviour problems would be my suggestion

How old is the puppy? You are likely to need to get a professional asap to deal with such an issue.

Have you consdiered taking him to some group training classes so that you can train in a controlled setting with distractions to start with?

This thread wasn't just about using aversives. Aversives are not always the quickest way and as often as i have heard using aversives being described as taking the easy way out, i have heard just as many people describe using food as the easy way out. there was a recent thread about e collars and associated studies- i think it was in general

Unfortunately not necesarily- some dogs owned by aggressive people are very submissive and show avoidance at any opportunity. I think it depends on how the aggression manifests in front of the dog, the nerves and temperament of the individual dog.

Its either prey drive or fear and hard to know which without seeing whats happening. How does she repsond to your correction when she is on the lead?

I think you should get a professional to come out and see exactly whats going on and advise accordingly. Very risky to advise online given you have a puppy in its critical period.

We have trained a few I find that their other senses are often heightened to compensate in part for not hearing. What breed is the pup? I had a deaf lab in a puppy school a few months ago- the first deaf lab i have seen.

Rebus- you need a good trainer to help you stop this ASAP. Whereabouts are you located?

Its about whether the dog believes its a physical punishment. If i have a harness and lead on and i stand on the lead, the dog lunges against it, thus feeling pressure on their shoulders or side, then stops- i would consider that to be a correction.

I really don't want to pick posts to bits. But there are plenty of statements in this thread that draw paralells between using aversives and training through fear and the 'long lasting' effects on the human- animal relationship. Corvus- do you think that standing on a lead is different to a lead correction? I am interested to know why? :p