Nekhbet

They refused to stand up so she shall forever be a Womble :p That was under a roadbridge, she's learning sure footing and to search for things in awkward situations as well as novel sounds (reverberating traffic noise of passing cars, echos etc). She was over 12 months when we did this and it wasnt for long. She comes from a long line of mountain goat Malinois :laugh: if there is something to clamber over she will. Her mother managed to make it up onto the roof of the breeders house one day O_o If I didnt believe she was capable of doing it safely I wouldn't have her doing it. yup OH was told she was unsuitable because they prefer things like labs/border collies and they want 12 month old dogs with no prior training and no letting them play with toys ... can you imagine a working mal with no toys or training? He got really upset as he had his heart set on it but I told him we'll just do our own thing. Civil work is high stress. You want a dog to willingly go in and engage a person then 'fight' with them until they're subdued. Can you imagine a dog who's only aim in life is to stare down everyone it sees and wants to bring them down? Not my cup of tea.

I wouldnt say less prey necessarily. It just needs to be balanced out with a couple more abilities and not be the predominant drive that overrides all others. If you keep pulling out a sleeve and all the dog wants is that, well you're not going to get far in protection because the dog is going to simply be going 'hey where's my tug toy!?'. You want a dog that spits the sleeve and reengages the decoy if they're still within range, a prey obsessed dog is just going to be lying there munching away on the sleeve the decoy slipped, grinning and derping 'got my toy! got my toy! toy toy toy!' not really effective in some situations :laugh: don't worry that video has already come back to bite me ... I'm losing my tough image aren't I I love my working dogs but I'm still a big sap at heart aren't I ;) I will make a full statement on that when I find out if I have a prolapsed disc in my back or not this evening it's kind of going to dictate how far we get in at least the near future. She's already tracking, we're going to start SD as well. Still have to get her hip and elbow scored for end of this year too. OH wanted to make her a SAR dog but the org down here in vic said she was the wrong breed and knocked him back O_o

I think the point of all of these threads that end up imploding is that there is not a standard across the board for all dogs. Whatever is right for that dog and does no harm, then use it. I don't see why any of these threads should turn into an argument about the better method.

true ... but over conditioning the dog into prey drive can also make it incredibly difficult to flick some animals into a more defensive drive because they keep being such nanas over equipment. Prey drive is good for prey based work like Sch, if you want to do more with the animal or go outside set patterns it may not be necessarily the bees knees. My young mal has prey coming out of her ears, in fact the last thing I wanted to do was keep building it. My theory on not letting her play tug with us much paid off though, she wasnt equipment conditioned and flicked out of prey VERY quickly *cheer* Working pups are fun I can't wait to get a couple more, home bred will be even better ;) In comparison to what? Showline shepherds before or what were they using? There really is not that broad a choice of backgrounds in Australia when it comes to shepherds.

Krueger came from Neville Williams here in Melbourne (von Kaiserhof) Got him as a rescue , thin as a rake, as he was supposedly a crap working dog excuse the boy bits he was swollen from his desexing as they couldnt find one retained testicle and sliced everywhere.

none of those are fads. As for correction chains your dog wheezed and coughed because it was being used in the totally wrong manner. And foods? You use what your dog does well on. There is not one thing that works for everyone. If you're going to complain about things at least use them properly before making a decision.

Not much more to add but some photos for you anyway of my old boy Krueger :) (2006-2008) sure you can't be swayed by one of these :laugh: ... I wouldnt take anyone elses adult dog, there are too many with problems for sale already or not up to scratch. If you do want a really high quality adult you would be paying a lot more then for a pup and you miss out on a lot of the fun of raising a working pup. Under a good trainer/club people are better off with a pup then an adult. We all have to learn somehow.

No K9 Pro has a list of recommended trainers, it's not a franchise.

And I don't think it was a fair situation to put you in either. If training could be done simply through a manual then dog clubs and trainers would be universaly redundant - and I would never send a prong to an owner I had not had at least one session with beforehand and seen the dog/owners skill level. If it works for you and you can walk the dog without falling over then so be it, you use what you can.

I would be letting her know her current ideas and buying patterns are not conducive to this idea. She's taking massive risks in wanting to breed unhealthy, unpapered animals of unknown backgrounds. That's nothing more then a low grade BYBer then a loving pet owner.

oh it definitely is. My comment was more in line with the hard and driven working lines occasionally Teaching a good foundation of the dog-handler relationship and basics is always required if you wish to progress with your dog - I believe very heavily in it and in fact don't believe in just putting any equipment on a dog for the sake of convenience or it's the latest fad to 'control' the dog. I do believe a lot of 'problems' stem from a lack of foundation like you say. Ultimately what is preferable is what helps the dog, particularly because some dogs are not acting like goofy pups at under 12 months of age. But again it is a very rare occasion and I threw the comment in as a generalised overview of what can be done and didnt really direct it towards your average dog

that would have to be pretty extreme. Take yourself something like Recharge for greyhounds, it's an electrolyte replacer and can help them get rehydrated especially after exercise and ingestion of salt water which can cause dehydration.

It comes down to what equipment helps the dog and handler achieve their goal in an efficient and fair manner. Some dogs may need it as part of their foundation training (saying that I would never put one on a young pup, I start all pups on a flat collar) Some dogs just wont calm down in order to be able to listen and learn. They spend more time high as a kite screeching, bouncing, flailing and no reinforcer can work if the dog is not focused - you also do not want to be rewarding an anxious/over excited animal otherwise you make a rod for your own back. Now enthusiasm for work is definitily something to heavily reinforce, but that is different from anxiety/excitement which is simply an unfocussed behavior. Because those corrective aids are made to diminish drive as well. If you want to train your dog in drive and keep it peaked the corrective collar will definitely kill it especially in the average dog. Some high drive nutters will work through even those but then again those are not commonly seen You use what works, if you're training in drive why don't you use a flat collar instead, it wont put pressure on the dogs body and allow more free flowing movement and no pressure on the dogs shoulder blades/muscles My dog would also look at me in the face when I gave her a command. So instead of being sent out she would pause, stare, then I would have to encourage her to go. I had a feeling I may have inadvertently given her cause to wait for another signal, eg a look on my face, or soft command I didnt realise I was doing, and having me within her sight was always going to make her exhibit the baulk. Now I didnt require her to focus on me before I issued the command so to look up caused problems. When I hid it was still me giving the command but out of sight she had nowhere else to look but what she was supposed to focus on in the first place. I would issue verbal praise and encouragement as I could peek out and see what she was doing. When done I came out and rewarded her with praise and a good strong pat on the side. Fixed it quick smart

Oh they do test you don't they! It's a matter of always being prepared and one step ahead you can't relax with them can you thing is there really is no standard. Every dog is different and the trick is to not be afraid to go well thats not working and 1) why do we think it's not (handler issue etc) and 2) what's the most effective way of fixing it so it does work and the dog learns in an effective manner. You have to get really creative sometimes but sometimes thinking outside the box and just giving an idea a shot can really help. I did it once with my bitch who had a hesitation problem, I would give a command and she would baulk. So I tied up the dog and hid just out of sight. I gave the command and another trainer heavily rewarded her for me. We fixed the baulking problem in no time despite the fact it went against what he thought would be good for the dog.

Almost as epic as my idiot cousin .. her 'friend' who was manager at a PP store sold her a 'Pure Miniature Maltese'. I saw the pup in the window it had a pale apricot splodge on the side. I said, there is no such thing as a mini maltese, in all probability this dog is a toy poodle x maltese because of the coat and a bit of apricot colouration I saw. Then the torrent of abuse started ... no, there IS such thing as a Miniature don't you know ANYTHING it's their size and it's PURE because the woman told me so OMG why would she LIE TO ME she's my friend and gave me a HUGE discount! (this was roughly at screeching level and in my face) So she only paid about $600 for this undersized runt of a thing that is still afraid of it's own shadow AND she dumped on her grandmother/mother when it wasnt even 6 months old. Her other dog was locked up until it went mad then she gave it to a BYBer to stick it up me. I'm the one who apparently needs a lecture on dogs. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid. Lead the horse to water, if it doesnt want to drink then brush your hands of it and pass them the number of a VERY good and blunt veterinarian.

actually she was doing quite well for a while, it was a couple of weeks into the supercoat that I noticed the downhill slide of her coat. She got nothing but supercoat and now she looks like shite. We managed to catch the acidosis before it got too bad and needed the dog to be almost boarding at the vets. I have a bag of supplements, electrolytes and other things here, now that she's being reintroduced to a more normal diet she's starting to improve thank god. A heavily moulting Malinois is a force to be reckoned with, I think even the poor dyson is about to go on strike. ETA I had tried a diet similar to the supercoat one once before when I was really short on cash, her coat went the same way and she had no health problems back then. My Dogue ended up almost bald too.

well it's a fail on point two isn't it ...

depends if your dogs chew or not ... I have a dog here who tries to swallow whole chicken maryland/lamb flaps .... a coarse mince means at least he wont choke to death on his meals because he's a pig. Or I have to deal with him vomiting the whole thing up and rechewing it so it has a chance of digestion.

actually there is really a species of hamster called the Siberian :p although it could be one hell of a funny goose chase for her conversely if carnivores are more they're style a little jill is positively TINY! and they're already toilet trained when you get them for a litter box :D

depends ... how much do you need? I'm not mincing over 10kg of meat a week my arm would drop off I do agree with Persephone if you dont have to buy it minced you can just dice it up. Minced meat though will always have a short shelf life compared to whole cuts.

I have the perfect thing for her ... it's absolutely teacup sized, can be walked on a leash or popped in a handbag, has that uber SQUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE factor and is small, fluffy and comes in all the same colours as a pomeranian ... TADAAAAAAAAA! Netherland Dwarf bunny. You can toilet train it, have it as an indoor pet AND it will NEVER bark! How good a deal is THAT :D

LMSW, I find that a fine check chain can get the point across, some dogs have been put on a prong at under 12 months of age, it depends what is more effective and how hard the little darling is . The dog still needs to learn manners and obedience no matter what the end goal, just a small correction before they get to the end of the lead and immediately call them to you, reward and repeat. Sometimes the drivey ones can be a little harder as they just have to no everything NOW. My older Mal bitch still, at almost 8, is one of those that has to try hard to walk loose lead as she just wants to do everything on her walk, especially gluing her nose to the ground For general loose leash walking I dont mind if drive is lowered if the dog is corrected, especially if they see things like cars, bikes etc. High drive dogs cannot be allowed to see some objects as being able to incite any prey at all (for their safety and the general publics) plus they also need to chill out. No dog needs to be on prey driven tenderhooks all the time, if you want to take them for a walk and go around public areas, unless you're going to do a specific play time/training session, there is no need to get revved when out and about. But all this is just IMHO, I dont want it to interfere with your training regime if you've been told something different. It's something that has done my lot well and hasn't killed the drive when they need to work, in fact I find it makes drive more quality over quantity and a well rested dog ready to go.

I do agree. People have also lost the ability to be self sufficient ... it seems to be easier to just pay someone to do everything for you, whinge like a 5 year old when it's not spoon fed to them, then to do some of your own research or god forbid, learn with a bit of trial, error and logic. But my point was more for the blatant pocket liners for what the owners will get. Yes people have to cover their costs but jeezus some places take it too far.

yeah I buy 10kg of 50/50 chicken and beef then a few kg's of RMBs and whatever is on special at the time. Goat, venison, rabbit if we hunt it. 5kg of VAN at a time is plenty for 3 dogs, plus have you seen the size of a 15kg box Be interesting to look into why dogs suddenly develop a problem with raw ... was it always the one protein source or did it even happen to dogs on mixed proteins? Ironically I have a dog that will vomit dry food undigested yet wont a raw diet.

what the 15kg bag? Unless you have a kennel load of dogs the 5kg should suit fine. Saying that it shouldn't cost that much anyway, it should be about around the $160 if I'm not mistaken? I had to feed some supercoat sensitive to my bitch after she got a great case of acidosis. Her coat has turned to absolute shite. It's dry and falling out, from glossy and deep tan colour to a washed out sandy too. Ugh can't wait for it to come back. Find a new veterinarian. If they cannot comprehend the fact a CANID eats some form of raw meat then he needs to hit a few more books. DOgs are not humans, they are not cats, they are not ferrets. All species have different needs. We CAN eat raw meat actually. The fact our meats are so contaminated because of the way they're raised and cleaned is the issue - some cultures do eat raw/pink/rare chicken and no one dies a horrible death because it's super fresh. Did you happen to mention we also eat sushi?