Nekhbet

so do the dogs I reek of liver rant rant rant rant rant rant rant ... clean your room! Comb your hair! Sit up straight AAAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

sleeeeeeeeeeep ... eh sort of. At least I'm safe enough to drive a car now and MAYBE make a point on the forums ... maybe not ... heheheheeh I'm still tired enough it took me 4 hours to find the liver treats in my pocket *sigh* and wondered why I smelled like liver. I want to see rules MADE by the people with the practical experience, the people like us on the forums who breed, train and scrape up other peoples messes. Christ after having stuffed up dogs given to me left right and centre frankly I WANT and NEED equipment everyone is poo pooing. Not every dog is a soft, roll over and pee if you raise your voice dog. Not every dog HAS an interest in food or toys when fixing a problem - you have to give them an 'oi settle moron' before you get through to their brain which has taken off like a freight train on their own tangent. Now unless we start starving dogs or completely depriving them of stimulation to heighten the value of the reward (which in itself isnt that cruel especially for those ultra stubborn dogs?) what the heck is wrong with punishment. If more kids these days got a clip on the ear and a smack on the bum it wouldnt hurt either. But they're going the same way. We think the world has 'changed', society has 'changed' - human and canine nature has NOT.

OK slept now I might make sense ... There is no 'recovery' from a correction - well unless you are belting 7 bells out of the animal - but remember dogs pull some funky behaviors in surprise and to get their own way. Some dogs pull the mother of all tantrums and it can look for all intensive purposes like its being skinned alive ... and you havnt even touched it Genuine fear and the BS spoiled or in control dogs pull is two very different things. A PhD wont tell you that PRACTICAL HANDS ON TRAINING experience will. When I correct I like to do it before the dog hits it heightened state - eg dog who goes bananas straining, barking etc when passing dogs at a fence. I allow the dog to look at them, but as soon as it was engaged I give the correction. As soon as the dog looks at me 'YAAAAAAAAAY GOOD DOG'. Why make life harder? It only took two good corrections for that dog to stop lunging completely whilst I was walking it and even began self correcting its own behavior. I agree with you Dogs Rock. There is good and bad on both sides of the track BUT no one should be purely discounted because of their beliefs or equipment. I'm sure there are many people out there who now thank prongs, check chains and e-collars for saving their dog from euthanasia and allowing it to become a loved member of the family. My dogs are like yours too, I went to a purely positive day and had other people admiring my dogs ... well how do you think I correct a 60kg entire male? But, they all get encouragement when required and the reinforcers outweigh the corrections (because of course they are perfect ) If you discount equipment, bad mouth or scaremonger it shows a LACK of education in my books. I dont care that they have PhD's in 'animal behavior' (which by the way is not practical, lifestyle dog training) because their views show they live in a bubble. There are dangerous, stubborn, aggressive, tough dogs in the world who need a bit of a clip about the ear proverbially. We want dogs to fit into society but then we have people like this who spout that you should avoid people who want to use corrections first etc. I too have seen first hand what happens when a dog is trained purely reward based - two out of 3 people in the house still carry the scars. One size does not fit all and if you think it does you should NOT be giving advice to the general populous, or at least be willing to pass them on to someone who will train in the methods you do not.

I have no respect for these people. Sorry. I also have not slept in 2 days so if I dont make sense feel free to poke me

how to choose a dog trainer from their position statement

you want embaressing ... a friend (when Skoota was a little more 'adolescent' and hormonal teenager) kept wanting him to hop up on the couch with her for a cuddle ... She weighed less then he did by about 10kg ... well Skoota hopped up for a cuddle alright ... All I heard was a muffled 'OMG HIS LIPSTICK IS OUT" and the dog is lying on her with his rather *ahem* doodle proudly displayed to the world .... I didnt help by rolling on the floor laughing, Skooty just laying there with the biggest grin on his face "I LOOOOOOOOOOVE YOU!"

you shouldnt walk 3 dogs together if they pull AT ALL. You will have problems for sure, I would work on them individually and regain some control. If you need to put a correction chain on the 'ringleader' in a group situation. I walk 3 dogs at once and we simply ignore all dogs on walks. No expectation of a meeting = no heightened anxiety = no uncontrolled behavior. Dogs dont have to meet other dogs on walks. I dont like it as I don't know the other dog or how it will react and since mine weigh 130kg combined I dont want that deciding it wants to go over or start trouble.

I've met a few. Some have their heads on straight and are absolute gurus, others you would not take the advice free let alone fork your hard earned $$ out for. Being a vet doesnt automatically make you better at understanding dogs. Also what seems to constitute "behaviorist" in the veterinary world may be a little misleading at times. This to me shows lack of experience. This to me says 100% try everything else first because the equipment has the potential to scar your dog either mentally or physically. The article looked like scare mongering to me. There is a time and a place for everything - YES. To discount something 100% - and even if that is saying you should not try it first - to me shows lack of either exposure to various behaviors or a limited view neither which appeals to me when training a living, thinking creature. I've met new dogs, assessed them, used a check chain on them and instant understanding between me and dog. I dont yank it around I simply use it as an effective tool to help the dog understand right from wrong - and then it also gets its reward, encouragement etc in conjunction. So why plug away when you can solve it effectively? ETA horses for courses. Yes it explains technical terms but they shouldnt scare people away from methods of training or trainers. Look at the last page, the average joe would feel like a monster subjecting their dog to the horrors of a punishment when in fact it might be the right thing for them. And a nice horrifying pinch collar whacked in there too

ahh yes lipstick ... get ready for a lifetime 'images I never wanted to see but are now burned into my retinas" That and they always do it at the most appropriate times

for the moment just avoid direct meetings, dont stress and if she carries on march her away quietly but quickly. Literally turn around, "come on!' and briskly walk away. These problems are best dealt with trainer one on one

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong thats just my opinion. Not for use in every situation but sometimes a good correction can make a world of difference. Spreading more scaremongering about training tools as usual. The whole paper makes it seem that punishment will send your animal into a frenzy and will either be scarred for life or turn on you FFS. They have their time and place. When a 50kg dog is trying to take your face off what do they suggest one does? No no you get no treat until you stop rolling your eyes and foaming. Ignore it? Maybe offer it a toy ... I think they need a broader range of experience with some truely troubled or difficult animals before writing things like this.

anita I suspect its the 'completely hands off method' which I saw a while ago. Popular round these here parts .. no no ... its ok ... they will eventually do it themselves ... no no .. dont pull them off each other they will come for food ... *BOOT* to the head ... I have nothing against positive I just cant stand it when it goes too far ... as for the GR x Poodle. Yup the size of a small horse. You know how ALLERGIC I am? Break out in lumps which can turn to dermal cysts, my skin burns and my sinus swells. mmmm hypoallergenic my botty ETA S&S my gorgeous OH bought me some ... cooking AND beering now.

let us all escape to a world where high octane dogs are acceptable, we are rolling in money and everyone is on the same page ...

&%#(U*$(@)*%()&(%*#() how many expletives can I put on the one page. I need REELS of it Oh the boys decided to have a rather rough play and my DDB has officially put a rather sharp canine through the bark collar on the rottweiler. BYE BYE $300 ;) Why me. Why now. This is the SECOND one destroyed and I'm too broke to buy another, let alone a couple of nice E-collars. The last really good one the rotty grabbed off the side table and decided to CHEW it like a toy. Oh mummy look what I did. I'm going to smack my head against the wall for a while now to release the tension. Light some incense. Punch a pillow. Well I duct taped it back together and the rotty still thinks it works. Thank goodness for dumb dogs *sigh* I went for a job interview today. On the notice board was a sign that the resident groomers beautiful Std poodle had just had a litter of oodles ... Dad was an unchecked GR! YAY! BITING TONGUE THROUGH THE INTERVIEW! Oh and they do purely positive preschool, still biting tongue. Oh so you do dog training ... err yes the more 'specialised' form *cough cough* beer me. beer me now.

I know but sometimes little behavior modification is included. This dog obviously has anxiety. What brings on anxiety - sudden loud noises and lack of stability in the dogs mind. Sometimes set routines can help lessen the severity of anxiety, and firm leadership can help as well. Medication is not a fix in my books its a start. Being a person with anxiety issues to balloons and loud noises I know what the dog is going through My OH doesnt cuddle me he takes my hand and says 'we're coping with this, you are fine'. The same needs to be done with the dog, it needs structure and some things is KNOWS it can cope (safe crate, reactions etc)

what breed is the foster? PM me or email me in my siggy and I'll give you a hand if you were closer I would visit but I need more info on you and the goggies

Great to hear! I love days like that When we go out I swear my Malinois could turn on a 5c piece she LOVES doing her commands in public and works so much better. She even picked up the beg command in a minute for some onlookers (she is SUCH a show off ;) ) and then ran over to get hugs.... a change is as good as a holiday

hey there is heaps of butchery apprenticeships flying around especially here in Vic... I nearly took on at a continental butcher and it included smallgoods making (the real way!) Now I wish I did

he has learned to pee in the pen when he has to and not to hold on. Reducing the size of the pen has meant you have forced him to pee on his bed (like pet shop puppy syndrome) limit his water intake and take him out more often then ever 2 hrs. He is a small dog and cannot hold on that long at the moment. I would put him outside a little more as well, or increase the size of the pen and give him a litter box with a paper based litter like Breeders Choice for him to wee in while he is crated.

yup know that feeling ... rotty got a few treats at mums ... geezus by the time we got back to Geelong we both had our heads out the window and seriously thought we would have to hose the back of the panel van when we arrived no more nannas special 'supermarket' treats

try Kelpi-i I know she has 4 paws training in Melb and does that type of training.

yeah most recipes are mix and match, you have the basis in the ones above you just change it to what they CAN eat. You can add some yoghurt to lactose free milk to make buttermilk (if they can tolerate yogurt) and instead of corn meal add some rice or potato flour - see how it turns out most dogs will scoff anything even if they dont look 110%

look at her overall diet and try keeping her off the grass. Conversely every time she HAS to go outside put some booties on her so she is not in direct contact.

I'm such a bitch aren't I it takes very little to cement a dogs brain into continuing. He's getting what he wants ultimately so he's upping the ante every time until he takes it a step too far. Then you rotty can develop paranoia if new dogs come in that they will pinch her food too. When I got my rotty the rescuer had allowed him to take food. He walked over to an adult rotty, snatched the pigs ear out of his mouth, growled and walked off. Oh was I mean when i grabbed him by the scruff, snatched the ear back and gave it to the original rottweiler then he had nothing. I dont like posessive or food aggressive dogs and really there is no reason to have one continue throughout its life.