Nekhbet

if it's not an aversive to the pup it becomes a game. They bite down you squeeze harder and they go 'oh cripes better stop!", thats what fixes it. Bad behaviour = consequence. I see it all the time, pups that are not handled enough or not taught that their bad behaviour has consequences and then they're a few months old, full of themselves and thrash like a manical crocodile in a death roll when all you want to do is look in their ear or mouth. Or the owners come to you covered in scratches and bite marks because the dog is more interested in them as a tug toy. Honestly? If you think it is OK for a dog to put their teeth on you at any time you have rocks in your head. Especially one that may have aggressive tendencies. I find teeth on humans quite a serious thing and I want it settled quickly and in a long lasting method, I understand what shaping is but frankly I think for this type of problem it's good for people who have a lot of time on their hands and dont mind having teeth marks for a while longer. It doesnt mean you have to be mean to your dog, just firm about what is acceptable and what is not. Corvus, it is ok from your perspective as they are your dogs and you can live with their behaviour. But a family with kids, or dog owners with a large mouthy gun dog can find it distressing and intolerable very quickly. Children can be frightened by larger puppies grabbing them or biting them, heck even adults have come to me in tears with their puppies. I remember one beagle pup, shredded the poor owner and then tried to latch onto the vet. It wasnt frightened at all it stood there like "come on, give me a vaccine", a couple of minutes with me and some liver treats for being good it saw the light of what was acceptable. It walked out with a wagging tail too so obviously there was no harm done. We seem to forget dogs are strong, predatory creatures with big sets of teeth and innate instincts that we need to shape and control in order to make them fit in with our family life. Remember this is an animal that potentially has no problems in taking a chunk out of you when it sees fit, so why do we pander over them like they're made of glass. Again, you should NOT be cruel to your dog EVER or smack them, shout or chase them off aggressively, but by jeez applying pressure under the tongue to make sure the little upstart doesnt put holes in you again isn't going to hurt anyone.

pups carry on at the drop of a hat. Terrorising is causing permanent psychological harm, a pup whinging for a bit or throwing a tantrum is nothing to be avoided. They do it with other dogs, their mother or the vet trying to give them a needle because they dont know how to just accept handling. As for biting harder, if you have not done it hard or long enough the pup sees it has a game and carries on. I dont like Dunbars method. Dogs learn faster when its yes or no, not little by little and end up with an adolescent dog that still puts its mouth on you or your children. And most pups dont learn enough bite inhibition for human levels from their litter, most pups are happy to put their mouths on you when you get them so obviously this is not the case. I suppose it's all up to how much you're willing to tolerate from your dog. I'd never recommend this. If you're happy with this fine but this can backfire majorly.

slather the dummy collar in something nasty like crib stop, that will fix the problem.

tubal ligation will still be abdominal surgery. If you never want to breed with her leaving one ovary in will allow the dog hormones without having the byproduct drippies of heat cycle :rolleyes: I looked into this for my dog, all the vets I spoke to refused to do it. Why? "because we dont do it like that".

they can if you dont perpetuate them. The best thing is to put the dog in the crate, cover most of it, insert average toy/bone into crate and ignore the dog. My bitch still gets excited if loose in the back but if tethered she's fine. Almost 7 years of working Malinois, trust me the 'growing out' bit takes a while :rolleyes: they are not GSDs, they dont behave like them either so take any ideas you have with shepherds and throw most of them out of the window Malis are a special bunch of dogs. You need to have patience, they want to learn but if you're too slow they'll just do their own thing. Just like their physical speed their mental speed is incredible. I havnt seen many working Mals that will just fall asleep as soon as they hit the car. Most know SOMETHING is going on and they HAVE TO KNOW EVERYTHING NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW my maligator in her formal wear

I don't have to bother with the towel my rottie was just sitting here yelping. I think OMG whats wrong! He's got his lip between his teeth and is biting is *sigh* I think his mother was standing when she gave birth to him

This is the ANKC statement. How close are they sticking to this?

I know what they prefer Souff. I have met many of their prominant members. And yet when an animal is in need they have helped me. They transported the cat I had whos owner wouldnt pay out of their own pockets, they look for homes for pups and do mailouts. They also know my standpoint on eating meat, that my partner and I hunt and we're not swayed by vegan thinking and never will. not everyone out there is a nut case.

if you prey for that Souff prey that the owners are able to not let the girl suffer or the vet refuses treatment because they cannot afford it

in fact ... souf it says they have the right to be treated as independant entities not property.

I meant in regards to the RSPCA stepping in. No laws are being broken here. It's sad and pathetic yes, illegal, no.

why? The people have done nothing illegal and as long as the dog has food, water and shelter they can do nothing more

ok you dont understand my point. I never said you make a profit did I. I said the money that your puppy buys give you contributes to your hobby - it does help in some way, in some instances in a large way and occasionally a profit, maybe not for you but for some registered breeders it does. If you dont understand what contributes means look in the dictionary. I suppose you can keep laughing when you blame everyone else for your woes. Easier to sit back and point the finger then go, hey great idea lets give it a go. I must say I am dissapointed by not surprised at either of your attitudes. No wonder pedigree memberships are slipping if you two and your sarcasm in this thread are the 'examples'.

so when you sell your puppies, and people pay you money it just *poof* dissapears into the ether? I'm not saying to make or aim for profit. I am saying there is money changing hands here and it is there in order to help you at least somewhat in your endeavours is it not? You are making some effort to recoup your litter costs in order to maintain your ability to breed, show or whatever else you chose to do with your dogs, no?

because people these days dont know better and are not being taught any differently

you can try that if you just want to arc up a working Mal more Aiden I tried that theory, she just played a little then OMG WHY ARE WE STOPPING MUM MUM MUM TOY MUM TOY TOY TOY TOY WHERE IS IT conversely I sacrificed my car interior to her. It shut her up for a few trips at least

1) you have a prey driven dog, you will excite him further 2) You still need to provide a consequence and a clear NO to the dog. What do we learn if we go BITE-TOY ... reward? 3) Unless you have conditioned your dog to what a word means you can scream BANANA PUDDING at your dog for hours and get no result 4) Dont smack your dog. There is no point and the bridge on the muzzle can be VERY sensitive. Also if you want to continue down this road be prepared down the track for the dog to turn and 'smack' you back with a mouth full of teeth 5) Water is OK if he gets it 6) I find pack separation for something the dog does instinctively rather unpleasant. From the pups point of view its terrible 7) why are you picking him up for. He doesnt need a cuddle he needs a reprimand Bite the bullet, harden up and when your dog bites you either scruff and hold or thumb under the tongue. It's nicer then half the things you've tried already. But please never 'tap' your dog on the face EVER there is no need. THe only time I have is instinctively when a dog lunged out to bite me and copped it on the side of the muzzle (it was that or lose the tip of my nose) Apart from that it does your dog-human relationship no favours

siks how do you leash correct an 8 week old pup. If they learn that any mouthing causes unpleasantness they stop. I dont have to growl at the dog or time out, I deal with it then and there. I have used the thumb under the tongue for years and have never terrorised a pup. In fact it stops them in their tracks and makes them think about what they have done. You dont go running after the pup, drop tackle it and try and jam your hand in its mouth. while interacting if the dog puts its mouth on me, I stop put the thumb under the tongue and totally ignore the dog while I apply some pressure. Yes they carry on like pork chops sometimes but they think wow OK that was not worth the effort. When they play nicely they get rewarded for being nice and controlled. How are they not learning bite inhibition? I own 3 working breeds, 2 working trained dogs, all taught this way and no one dares lay a tooth on me no matter what is happening. They learned from a young age and it stuck forever.

If you had read it properly I am saying the exact opposite. Stand up, make yourselves heard and educate the public FFS grow up. You cannot say your puppy sales to owners do not in any way contribute to help keep your hobby afloat so pull your head in, otherwise you would be giving them away. This is the shitty attitude that will see the demise of the pedigree dog. You know why? You'll play everyone right into the hands of the mass marketing pet stores and farmers. I'm on YOUR side. I WANT to see more purebreed dogs but the attitudes coming from some pedigree breeders frankly stinks. But no .. right we just wont share our lollies with the other children This is not the world it was 30 years ago where mongrels were worthless and purebreed dogs sold themselves. The world is changing and to survive you MUST change with it. To ensure the survival of pdigree dogs - the public needs to be invited to participate in the pedigree world (open days, neuter shows, etc) - There needs to be cohesion and agreement within the pedigree world instead of backstabbing, whinging and self serving attitudes - There needs to be a push for the ANKC to use YOUR money properly and promote YOUR, YOUR EFFORTS AND YOUR BREEDS properly to the public - Mass marketing to show why pedigree pups ARE preferable to puppy farmed dogs - There needs to be pride and acceptance attached to people who want to breed their chosen breed under an ANKC kennel name and COE, they should be flocking to the ANKC instead they're leaving - There needs to be an overall feeling of achievement and pride in the buyer when purchasing a pedigree pup THe iron is hot and THE ANKC IS NOT STRIKING! People are now up in arms about this puppy farm/pet store issue and all I hear from the pedigree org and clubs is crickets chirping. It is ultimately about the dogs, but the sentiment still seems to be more about the people.

I'm assuming a female pup? THere is a procedure where they remove the uterus and one ovary. Tubal ligation still allows the dog to fully cycle so you are losing time when she's in heat and the chance of pregnancy if the ligation has now worked properly is still present.

it's excitement. My Malinois was the same except the whining that went with it O_o what happens if you offer the dog a toy or something in the crate. Start with just having the car on and short trips, I find if my Mal could redirect her stress onto a toy she would lie down and just play with it instead of acting like a loony. I would cover the crate by maybe put a fan in, fresh air can help settle them as well

doesnt the new owner have to pick their own dog up?

get yourself a dogtra collar and someone who knows how to use it, contact Pet Resorts (one at Terrigal and Dural) snake poo looks like segmented dog poo, usually has hair chunks in there too and a VERY distinctive smell. Rubyroo you need to start putting dummy collars on your dogs. No point training them to ignore snakes if your dog ends up knowing it cant touch them only at certain times.

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws. Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally. Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing. Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too. I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet.