George my Doggie

Only 9 months... So young... :D

How much off-lead time does he get? Maybe being off-lead is just so stimulating and exciting he doesn't want to come to you because he doesn't want his freedom taken away. Does he get off-lead time every day or every few days? or only for a little while on weekends?

so true. I think the original author is long gone.

Ah...the joys of clicker training... Quite simply the most effective form of training I have ever used. I hope this helps. The first step is to actually get a clicker, or you can use a word like 'good girl' remember that this word/click must ALWAYS be followed by a reward (food, play etc) Next, you need to 'install' the clicker. Just click it and give the dog a treat without asking her to do anything. Reapeat this several times over a few days. Once you think your dog knows that click=reward, you can do a test. Wait till your dog looks away, then click. If she immediately looks back, expecting a treat, then indeed she knows the meaning of the click, if she doesn't look back at you, more work is needed. After that test, never use the clicker to get attention again, because you will be rewarding her for not paying attention to you. Now, ask some commands the dog already knows, and when the dog responds correctly, click and treat. make sure you click while the dog is in the correct position. it's no use clicking a sit after the dog has stood up again. then you can use the clicker to shape and teach commands or behaviours. When the dog does something good, click and treat. for example, if you are trying to get the dog to go on a puppy pad, out of 30 times she might go on the carpet 18 times and on the pad 12 times, it is important that you reward when she is going on the pad and eventually, that will become the new average. She will learn that having 4 paws on the pad=treat and will go on the pad more often. Clicker Don'ts Never use the clicker as a command never use the clicker to get attention never click incorrect behaviour clicker dos time your click always follow click with a reward click correct behaviour When you're teaching commands, you can click something that's kind of close to what you want the dog to do, the once the dog does that well you can raise the criteria and build up to the behaviour you want. remember there is no room for punishment (or even the word 'no') in clicker training. If your dog does something wrong, no click, no reward.

I agree. Although witht he possible-parvo case at the vet I work at, we gave the pup fluids sub-cut... But that was a mild case, is it different with severe parvo? My vet offered the owners the chance to take the pup home and he would show them how to give the treatments, and they were to bring it back for checkups and inter-muscular injections. The owner however, refused and preffered to pay the bill for hospitalisation, drugs and 24/7care. I certainly wouldn't want to treat a serious case at home by myself. That isn't even practical for most people. I mean, they have jobs, they can't spend time at home indeffinately to take care of a sick puppy. They need to work in order to get money to support the pup's treatment and of course feed themselves. I mean, if they couldn't have afforded vet treatment in the first place, imagine how much they'd be struggling. I say if you can't afford it, don't get a dog. I think it would be better for the dog to have its suffering ended by being put to sleep, rather than being treated by someone with no experience and without veterinary supervision.

I was just wondering if those of you that use the Koehler method use the original koehler or the 'modern' koehler. I have read the book Lazlo's Mum mentioned, and I do believe that some of his methods are too harsh, although I don't believe the entire thing is straight out cruelty, William Koehler constantly insults positive methods and even admits that some of his more extreme techniques should only be used when the alternative is the dog being put to sleep. I shall quote from his book: "And it must be remembered that the extreme procedures inluded herein are advised only is those cases where the alternative is as drastic as being 'put to sleep'" His solution for destructive chewing: "select a piece of the material he has chewed (and you don't need to catch him in the act) and place it well back crossways in his mouth. Use a strip of adhesive tape to wrap his muzzle securely infront of the chewed material, so that no amount of gagging or clawing can remove it from his mouth. Perhaps you are wondering if his frantic effortsto rid himself of the material will cause him to scratch himself painfyully. Yup. They surely will." Koehler's method of housetraining: "When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to the place of his error and hold his head close enough so that he associates the error with the punishment. Punish him by spanking him with a strap or switch. Either one is better than a rolled newspaper." I can see how Lazlo's mum could be sickened by this book. I know people that only use the Koehler for lead walking and perhaps recall and a few other commands they have trouble with. I personally believe that punishment isn't necessary for puppies, as they haven't been shown what to do. Some people give their dogs problems that is impossible for a dog to solve without being shown, and then punish them for failing. I believe punishment should only be used for older dogs when all other avenues have failed. But that's just my opinion, so please don't pick on me for it. I do not believe that the Koehler method is necessarily cruel, I just think that in some cases it's over-kill. That is, more than what is necessary. (sorry if I'm getting a bit irrelevant, I haven't read the entire thread, just the last few pages)

yes As long as all the pups have had their first vaccination and it is in a place where unvaccinated dogs don't visit often.

hmmm... It can be useful for toy breeds. if you have to be out for a long time you can just leave sheets of newspaper by the door and if it was paper trained it would know what they were there for. But you wouldn't want a medium, large or giant breed releaving itself inside! However, I still think straight outside is better.

I just taught my pup to go straight outside and put newspaper down while I was out so he wouldn't go all over the floor. Took me a week to housetrain him. I think the whole train to go on newspaper, then less and less newspaper then outside is a waste of time and methinks it would just confuse the dog.

That could possible be it... It had a drawing of a happy, waggily tailed dog with a halo above it's head next to a snarling growly dog with devil horns on the cover. I think they were fox terriers... Very enlightening ;) I understand my dog a whole lot better after reading it.

That's very true. I've heard lots of horror stories about dogs with rescource guarding problems that were allowed to develop unchecked. One book I read called 'agression in dogs'...can't remember the author...(excellent book btw) written by a behaviourist, has several stories about his clients and how some decided to wait to begin behaviour mod. One ended in the dog biting a child and being put to sleep.

In my area we only get one parvo case in a year - if that. The possible-parvo was a free puppy from a farm somewhere out in lismore or casino. So yes, vaccinate and keep pups away from areas where unvaccinated dogs have been and there should be no problems ;)

I agree with you there haven. My vet advises owners not to take their dogs to puppy classes untill they've been fully vaccinated. But any good puppy class (like the one I help out with) is held in a place not often frequented by dogs. My dog was barely socialised at all before ten weeks, and he's very timid. I've had aggression and behavioural problems with him. Mainly recource guarding, he defends his food against other dogs, guards resting places against people and has a fear biting problem. other things include chasing the cat and cars, overly submissive with other dogs and intolerance of young puppies.

When I was working down at the vets we had a possible parvo puppy come in. Vommitted just outside the front door and was put in isolation for about a week. The pup was about 10-12 weeks old, was vommitting, had bloody diarrhea, very skinny, lethargic and dehydrated. It had to have anti vommitting drugs, an injectable antibiotic, Scourban, and fluids. It cried screamed an wriggled every time it had a needle stuck into it. After we got the pup in the isolation room we had to decontaminate the entire area the pup had come in contact with. The pup did get better though, although we never found out if it was a mild parvo or something else... It was horribkle just not knowing if he would pull through or just deteriorate...and listenening to him cry every treatment.

Poor Molly... But you did the right thing ending her suffering. "You will be sad - I undersand Don't let your grief then stay your hand For this day more than all the rest your love and friendship stand the test" ~Author Unknown I'm sorry for your loss. Rest in Peace Molly. ;)

EXCUSE ME? I never asked for opinions. I asked for ADVICE, BOOKS and WEBSITES. Read the first post and you will see nothing about opinions there. I personaly don't like hearing opinions because that's only what that particular person thinks, and it isn't fact. With opinion, there is no right or wrong answer. I hate it when people try to force their their opinions down my throat. It only makes me more set against that idea. There is a difference between giving advice, and giving an opinion. I have nothing against hearing both sides, but I do hate it when people say that's cruel/mean/unnatural/depriving/neglectful. I've seen it done and it can be done, and the dog will be just as happy and healthy as before. But by all means, educate me of the cons. Poodlefan- o.0 of course it would be organic/free range. I would never feed my dog anything that has spent the majority of it's life in a small pen.

The way they are farmed. If I could let my dog go out and catch rabbits, I would. That's what I plan to do if the veg diet doesn't work out. Although I won't be feeding fish. Maybe just chicken and pork. I do agree. I 'it's not natural' is the best you can do, I really don't think it's going to change my mind and I don't really care if it isn't natural.

But you did imply it. Then let us just agree that we have different views. I don't think I could explain any further why I want to feed my dog a vegetarian diet, and I don't think I could understand why you don't understand. If you don't care about the suffering and killing of farm animals than you won't be able to comprehend my way of thought. I value all life and every life. I don't think I can put it any simpler than that.

Hey, I know my dog, and if he doesn't like something, he doesn't eat it! He's not one of those that will eat just any old garbage that happens to be habitating his bowl at the time. He'd rather starve than eat something he doesn't like. You statement could be applied to anything. "Go into a sit...or don't get the piece of cheese" "Don't chew the stuff I shouldn't...or get a time out" "eat the vege diet...or have an empty belly" EVERYONE is guilty of manipulating the choices their dog gets. I still don't understand why some people think controlling what food he has access to is cruel/un-natural/whatever. In the wild, a carnivore will eat plants and vegitable matter if there isn't enough meet, or if their nutritional needs aren't being met with meat alone. All I will be doing is controlling the abundance of meat. My dog will not suffer for it. Food is not his entire life. He'll still be getting the consant love and attention he always did. He'll still be played with just as much. He'll still get all the exercise he needs. His coat will still be brushed and kept in top condition. He'll still get to play with all his friends. His meals will taste just as good (probably better because he's not too enthusiastic about the commercial diet he's currently on). His nutritional needs will still be met, even though it won't be with meat. How is this cruel? Please explain.

Well if you mean vegan then say vegan. You just get me confused when you use the wrong terms. vegetarian=no meat vegan=no animal products I guess supplements would be necessary, but I've heard calcium can be obtained from almonds and a few other foods that I can't remember. However, that was for humans and I don't know if those foods would be safe/digestable for dogs. Don't eggshells have calcium in them? I know all too well about the exploitation of animals to produce milk (that's why I'm going vegan :rolleyes: ) But I don't want my dog to suffer from a bad decision on my part. If only I lived in the city/had a credit card... I do agree. George loves banana You make it sound like I'm being cruel. Firstly, I am not forcing my dog to do anything. It's his choice if he eats the food I put down infront of him. A vegetarian diet, in my opinion, is most certainly not unfair to the the animal. Just because they are predators, it doesn't mean they can't enjoy a totally contradictory lifestyle. first rule of nature: To survive, you have to be adaptable. If you want to give a dog a 'natural' diet, go take it out into the bush and let it kill it's own prey. Is it fair for the livestock to be killed to put food in a dog's bowl? I'm not only thinking about my dog here people. I'm thinking about the poor livestock that lived their entire lives on a farm, only to be sent to slaughter to put food on our (and our pet's) plate. I know it has been said many times that soy isn't good for dogs as it can cause bloat...So I take it that it would be a bad idea to feed soy milk to my dog?

milk

I won't be feeding him on a vegan diet. I'll probably give him lactose-free milk, eggs yolks and cheese. Just so you people won't worry about nothing, I know not to give him more than 4 eggs per week. ((at least that's what my book said...and if you feed the whites you can only give two per week because the whites have something in them that is toxic to dogs...is all that correct?)) I have no idea who George's breeder is. I got him from rescue, and he is a medium sized dog. He's a border collie cross bluey and has been desexed. I have no German Shepherd yet, but I might...might...be getting one next year. It will be a female, and I may just train her for obedience as my boss is going to put me in touch with an obedience trainer. I will probably save showing - and breeding - for a time when I have access to show training.

Erhem...I am a GIRL. My dog is a male, hence my username. Nylabones, kongs filled with cheese etc. I already brush my dog's teeth :rolleyes: Thank you everyone that is being helpful. If my dog doesn't do well on a vegie diet, I'll feed him a natural diet ^.^

Thank you haven, I agree completely Electrawoman- I already have a blender, and thank you ;) I will answer your question tomorrow, I have a feeling it will be a lengthy response and I'm already staying up later than I intended. Goodnight all, I must get sleep

Why I want to feed a vegetarian diet: 1. Health- lower risk of obesity, cancer and other health problems caused by low-grade meat, grains, preservatives etc found in many commercial pet foods. 2. Ethics- This paragraph sums it up nicely "For many people who are vegetarian for ethical reasons or because they are concerned about animal suffering, every time they feed meat to their pet they go through a dilemma. On one hand they care about their pet and want to do the right thing by it, but on the other hand they do not like having other animals slaughtered for it’s food, and they also don’t like supporting the meat industry." (from http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm) EDIT: To spell vegetarian right.