Karentrimbo

I have spent thousands of dollars to be above minimum standards and now they tell us they are banning anyone owning more than 10 females. So I think I will need to give away 5 of my dogs.

Yes, by limiting the ownership of fertile female dogs by 10 will only encourage the big players to move interstate or, hide their interests. I don't see it being passed because Greyhounds racing is very lucrative to the State of Victoria. The same goes for those big kennels that breed Police Dogs or Seeing Eye Dogs. There are over 150,000 registered dog breeders in this Country. There will be always unscrupulous players in any industry (good & bad)…. The Liberals in Victoria have funded millions for a highly sophisticated task force to track down, audit and charge these cruel guys. Labor did nothing for 11 years plus, so I don't see how things are going to change. The legislative changes to get this passed in my opinion would be extraordinary if passed.

Hi Steve, In Victoria - Any business with more than 10 Fertile dogs are deemed a Domestic Animal Business. They might not even be running a business, or making any money. But they still have to be registered which can take 2 - 4 years, plus engaging a Town Planner, Consulting with Council - Their Local Laws department, Submissions (Feedback) from neighbours, EPA regulations, Water - Regulations. Labor will not be able to enforce this under their so-called election promises. Daniel Andrews - MP is promising the world. He has targeted every demographic in his budget. Where is the money coming from? If we want legitimate animal crutely legislation in this country (HIT IT WHERE IT HURTS) - The amount of money produced on betting for example is HUGE - $800 million today to be betted on the MELBOURNE CUP.... ALONE! And they will not donate 1% of the profits to animal rehoming causes... So there is a lot of work to be done. I would love to know where all the donations from OSCARS LAW is going... Is there not an independent board to audit where the money is being spent?

And I am sure you do a great job looking after your pets… People need to be realistic. What is next… Placing a permit on how many children you should have? Well, this may be a good idea! …. The world is going mad.

Fertile or not Fertile - Dogs are hard work

Yes - people breed Greyhounds for profit (Victorian profit from Greyhound racing is approximately $350 million per year) 20,000 jobs ———————— Horse racing - 3 billion dollar plus economy to Victoria ——— Do we ban everything? I think the best thing to do is not ban things, just invest more money into more stringent regulations. There are not enough animal welfare officers on the ground. Where the hell does all the donor money go?

Border Collies were meant for farm work, not for dog showing. Not having a go at anyone, but we use these dogs for that very purpose and trade our dogs to friends who are part of a Agricultural Society. I am the go-to person for the Border Collies.

A puppy farmer is someone who sees their dogs primarily as stock just as you see your cattle. Where profit is the sole or main priority. Is there a Universal definition to Puppy Farm AND / OR Backyard Breeder?

Excuse me, there is a breeder that has two mature dogs for sale because they do not meet her requirements and she has just announced two litters of puppies. This is so cruel and wrong. AGAIN, if you want to discuss the VICTORIAN DEPI CODE for DOG breeding. Requirements are they require to be microchipped, tested, vet checked etc etc etc etc You need to document absolutely everything and keep these documents for 7 years. One hard copy and one copy off site

Who said I am not a Registered Breeder? I am registered as a Domestic Animal Business as I have 15 Fertile dogs. As I alluded in my previous posts, I have a big family and a farm the size of Melbourne so we have the capital and room. These dogs help us work the farm and yes - We are apart of a few clubs and make friends and we are the go-to people if friends, family or someone with a connection to them want a puppy. We have a lifetime guarantee with our puppies and if for any reason they wish to return the dog - Even if they are 10 years old, they can. Our Beef & Wool (Sheep) Business is where we make money. I enjoy the dogs and my kids love it. Again, I am confused… What is a Backyard Breeder? Someone that doesn't pluck their dogs and powder them up to enter them in a show ring? Just look at the Mature Dog section of this website to see how many Show Dogs are needing new homes because their owners think they do not meet their Showing requirements. I think it is inhumane and sickening that someone can do that to an animal. It is like telling the Doctor after you have given birth, your kid is ugly so you want to put him/her up for adoption. Again, read the DEPI code and I can assure you no unscrupulous breeder can unethically breed in Victoria. If they do they are acting illegally.

We have 1200 head of Cattle and have 4 staff members. I believe there should be more regulation in the Agriculture industries. 1 Full-Time Staff member per 25 dogs is sufficient in my opinion. Most city people or professionals are lucky to even walk their dogs! There are minimum requirements for interaction with these dogs and as dogs are pack animals, they enjoy your company, with company. What is exactly a puppy farmer? I would be classed as a Puppy Farmer because I live on land that is Zoned Farming and I breed one litter of puppies per year?

They aren't going to ban the sale of rescue dogs from approved rescue facilities in the lovely shop window, but only dogs bred for profit? You either ban one or all I say… Seriously!? VERY few rescues have ever placed a pet into a shop window and no rescue is doing it for even $1 of profit. The profit on the rescue animals has already been made by the person who bred and sold the animal in the first place. The shop makes a profit by selling the accessories they hope people will buy to go with the animal. So is it the dent in your profit you are against or just the limited number of dogs? From your comments you want less laws but more laws. It doesn't make sense. No it doesn't. Puppy farms easily pass their relevant compliance regulations as well. A puppy dog in the window is putting the animal in someones face. Oh look at that adorable puppy/kitten. Mum, can I have it… please… This is the usual response. No pets should be sold in a Pet Shop at all. I am sorry, but I saved a Staffie X from a RSPCA Shelter and they could not wait to get rid of me. I do not believe the checks are enough. What is good for one, should be good for all. You cannot legislate to allow rescue dogs in shop windows, but not puppies that are bred for profit. At the end of the day, the proprietor of the Pet Shop is making money. And do not tell me for a second the lost dogs home, rspca. Do not make money…. The RSPCA should be ashamed of themselves. There is always going to be rogue operators in all industries You get it in Building, Sheep farming, Horse breeding etc etc The issue is not the law itself. It is regulation. In Victoria. You are REQUIRED by LAW to have 1 FULL time staffer for every 25 FERTILE dogs. Plus all of the other requirements - WHICH I WELCOME But if a PUPPY FARMER can abide by all of the laws. GOOD ON THEM if they make money because they would not be acting unethically because the laws pretty much STAMP out rogue operators IF the RSPCA, Councils etc actually used donations and rate payers money to good use and REGULATED the industry. The set up costs alone for anyone breeding in excess of 25 would outweigh the benefits. I do not think puppy farmers have capital in the millions to make it happen to sell a puppy for $600.00

I shall repeat darling to read the legal requirements a Domestic Animal Business is required to undergo. READ IT then COMMENT All breeders must comply with the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1986, particularly with respect to the Code of Practice for the Responsible Breeding of Animals with Heritable Defects that Cause Disease. The proprietor of any business notified that an animal sold by the business has been diagnosed by a veterinary practitioner to have a heritable defect, or provided with reasonable evidence of a heritable defect in such an animal, must stop breeding from the parents of this animal until the following have been completed: • test the parents if they are still breeding where an acceptable test is available, or if a test is not available have the parents assessed by a veterinary practitioner for the defect, and • test any existing offspring of those parents still currently residing at the business where an acceptable test is available. − Ifoneorbothoftheparents have the heritable defect, genetic counselling must be obtained from a veterinary practitioner prior to continuing to breed those animals. − If any offspring have the heritable defect, a sale or euthanasia plan must be developed in conjunction with a veterinary practitioner and all details about the heritable defect and likely outcomes for the animals and their owners must be fully disclosed to prospective purchasers. This is why Lawyers make so much money, because people are so lazy to research. They would prefer to open their uneducated mouths first.

It was the poor transgender woman who was killed who was breeding dogs, not the the awful man who murdered her. The quote was from the girl's mother who still refers to her as a son. But even if it was the murderer who was breeding the dogs I hardly see how that is at all relevant to BYB and puppy farmers needing tougher regulation nor in anyway a sufficient argument to 'rest your case'. How can a prostitute that travels the world as a hooker, who just moved to Brisbane from Melbourne. Who was living in a high-rise apartment equal an ethical dog breeder? This is just one of hundreds of examples I could pull. Sex work is a legitimate occupation, your moral objections to it does not necessarily equate to somebody being incapable of caring for animals. I don't really think there's enough information on this poor woman's breeding practices for you to use her as an example and I think she's suffered enough without needing to be further vilified, perhaps use one of your other hundreds of other examples instead. Also I don't think high-rise apartments rule people out of being ethical breeders if they only have one male and female that are toy breeds. Also as for rescue pups and kittens in petshops... the pet shops don't really profit from them, they are merely used as a platform by rescues and shelters to find homes. Anyone wanting to purchase one would still need to undergo the same checks as if they were getting the dog directly from the shelter or rescue as they don't belong to the petshop. I don't think it's in anyway comparable to pet shop puppies and does not harbor the same negative elements that puppies born in horrible conditions, shipped all across the country and sold for ridiculous prices to anyone willing to buy them does. They say Petshops are not responsible because it encourages impulse buying which means that puppy or cat has a higher rate being dumped. How do you know that the previously dumped dog, that is advertised in a pet shop won't get re dumped? Ban all pet shop sales

They are both dead They were both breeding dogs as they lived together in one apartment and were married which equals one union. I rest my case.

It was the poor transgender woman who was killed who was breeding dogs, not the the awful man who murdered her. The quote was from the girl's mother who still refers to her as a son. But even if it was the murderer who was breeding the dogs I hardly see how that is at all relevant to BYB and puppy farmers needing tougher regulation nor in anyway a sufficient argument to 'rest your case'. How can a prostitute that travels the world as a hooker, who just moved to Brisbane from Melbourne. Who was living in a high-rise apartment equal an ethical dog breeder? This is just one of hundreds of examples I could pull. Sex work is a legitimate occupation, your moral objections to it does not necessarily equate to somebody being incapable of caring for animals. I don't really think there's enough information on this poor woman's breeding practices for you to use her as an example and I think she's suffered enough without needing to be further vilified, perhaps use one of your other hundreds of other examples instead. Also I don't think high-rise apartments rule people out of being ethical breeders if they only have one male and female that are toy breeds. Also as for rescue pups and kittens in petshops... the pet shops don't really profit from them, they are merely used as a platform by rescues and shelters to find homes. Anyone wanting to purchase one would still need to undergo the same checks as if they were getting the dog directly from the shelter or rescue as they don't belong to the petshop. I don't think it's in anyway comparable to pet shop puppies and does not harbor the same negative elements that puppies born in horrible conditions, shipped all across the country and sold for ridiculous prices to anyone willing to buy them does. So you are saying it is acceptable to breed dogs in a high-rise with no backyard? Based on the editorial, they travel the world as sex workers? I wonder what happens to these dogs?

c It is not the dog numbers that are an issue It is the people breeding them.. The people breeding them should be required to undergo a test, have their premises inspected and be audited at least once every 6 months (randomly) I would even go as far as having people income tested or making people insure their pets if they are going to breed from them We need tougher auditing laws for people that even breed from any number of dogs. Not just persons with over 10 fertile females. Re the above it may be the dog numbers in some cases. There is a big difference between having 3 or 4 bitches that live as family & having 50 dogs shoved in inadequate housing at the back of some paddock. People don't need a test to breed themselves & have children so why for a dog ? They don't get audited before having children either. Even cafes & restaurants that serve food to the public are not inspected & audited that often & they could potentially kill people if unhygienic. They also make more money than hobby breeders. Pet insurance only covers illness & accidents they will not cover any kind of involvement or issue in breeding & whelping. We are not a communist/dictatorship country so breeding a dog or a few should not be treated like a criminal offense. Ill treating, neglecting or abusing a dog is an offense that can be prosecuted & there are laws to enable this. There seems to be more fuss, input & wild theories & extreme ideas about dog breeding than there is about child abuse. Hopefully this ridiculous trend will die down & people can focus on the many more important issues, ban pet shop sales & leave it all alone. Have to keep telling myself there are people somewhere with brains that can get priorities & practicalities right. They aren't shoved in some paddock. If you are registered and you are compliant you would be following the very strict code of practice. I encourage you to read it and repost at a latter date.

I would strongly suggest people read the DEPI CODE before making unsubstantiated claims. BAN the selling of ALL pets in PET SHOPS EVERYONE that breeds ANIMALS no matter how many, should abide by the relevant code of practice in their State (if applicable) Have the government start a Royal Commission into Animal Cruelty Banning or limiting something is not going to solve the problem Look at the drugs epidemic… This is so highly policed, people still do it.

It was the poor transgender woman who was killed who was breeding dogs, not the the awful man who murdered her. The quote was from the girl's mother who still refers to her as a son. But even if it was the murderer who was breeding the dogs I hardly see how that is at all relevant to BYB and puppy farmers needing tougher regulation nor in anyway a sufficient argument to 'rest your case'. How can a prostitute that travels the world as a hooker, who just moved to Brisbane from Melbourne. Who was living in a high-rise apartment equal an ethical dog breeder? This is just one of hundreds of examples I could pull. It is not the dog numbers that are an issue It is the people breeding them.. The people breeding them should be required to undergo a test, have their premises inspected and be audited at least once every 6 months (randomly) I would even go as far as having people income tested or making people insure their pets if they are going to breed from them If they do not have a fixed address and they are breeding, they should surrender the dogs. These are laws that should be introduced. We need tougher auditing laws for people that even breed from any number of dogs. Not just persons with over 10 fertile females. Regarding rescue dogs, what I was saying is if you are going to ban dogs bred for profit from pet shop windows, you should be banning the pet shops that sell rescue dogs too.... You either ban one or all.

I rest my case, The guy that killed himself after cutting up and murdering his transexual girlfriend prostitute has started breeding dogs from his apartment to keep him occupied: “Febri did not feel at home in Brisbane, however, he started to breed dogs about a month ago and hoped that would keep him occupied,” Ms Sukarni said. The backyard breeders are the problem. The property without the auditing and the facilities.

In response to the quote from the OP, I hope you also realise that reputable breeders take back any dogs they have bred if the dogs find themselves in need, such as in a pound. If your fifteen bitches had one litter each year of five dogs that would make 75 pups a year. It's a lot of pups to be responsible for. Not saying that you are not a responsible breeder, just wondering that's all. Yes...& that's only if they have average of 5 pups per litter. That's a lot of loving homes to find. What happens to the ones that you can't find suitable & loving homes for A good breeder will go out of their way to find the "right" homes for their pups. Do you health & genetic test your breeding stock?????..... If you read the DEPI code this will answer all your questions. If I passed compliance in April. This shows I am doing something right I am fortunate enough to not work and play around on the farm and look after my kids while my husband works the farm. So I have a lot of time during the day when the kids are at school. This is my hobby

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I know of a pedigree champion show dog exhibitor who lives on a 4000 sqm home with 23 dogs. (13 Shih Tzus and 10 Dalmations). My dogs have about 100 plus acres per dog ratio to roam with us when she herd the sheep. All puppies are offered a rehoming policy we only breed one litter per year Just because the females are fertile doesn't mean we breed from her….

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They aren't going to ban the sale of rescue dogs from approved rescue facilities in the lovely shop window, but only dogs bred for profit? You either ban one or all I say…