coneye

Last sundays paper had a big article in it about the govt here in SOUTH AUST changing the rules for breeders , apparantly they have had submisions in for breeders premises to allow up to 300 bitches , and not just one submision either seems a lot to me but thats a MASSIVE scale , also says victorian breeders are moving across the border up Mildura way to get away from the new vic laws ,, don't know how much is just selling papers made up rubbish or is actual fact . i just read it . For me though the answer is simple , you have breeders and you have byb , but which is which , is the old lady who's owned poodles for 35 years and lets her best bitch have a litter with the show dog she bought a byb or a breeder , hence is the guy with 20 acres and 30 bitches all in pup to the 5 males he has a breeder or a byb . I don't really think the byb in the past has been a problem , if there dogs are no good they don't sell them and then its supply and demand . Personally i think once someone registers to be a breeder , with clubs , govt agencies whoever or whatever , they are virtually saying there there too make money , so councils if there worried about puppy farms not breeders , can just simply put a number on dogs they can have and the amount of pups they can have at any one time ,, and this should be highly policed with regular inspections to make sure its ok , make the RSPCA work for there grants , won't cost them nothing they can send there volunteers the byb well they will not have sites such has this to advertize so they take a chance on being stuck with 6 pups unless there own dog is such a nice dog there already booked and sold .. I believe the dog industry is one where they need to allow or encourage more breeding to simply reduce the prices , and reducing the prices reduces the profits all of a sudden its not profiable to breed if your not making money .. but it still leaves it open for good breeders who have the lines and the papers , trophys and reputation to charge more on the basis you get what you pay for , . I know from breeders over the last 45 years i've bought a springer spaniel , a staffy , a shepard , and 2 rottys and in each case i could'nt give a monkeys about showing them or there show potential , i just looked for the biggest , healthiest looking most boisterous pup they had , each time payed a premium but got excatly what i wanted , but i also got full papers , Thats another argument but me i would NEVER EVER buy a pedigree dog without full papers , i don't want to breed or show ,, but if i'm paying a premium i want the full papers , and sorry but any breeder who refused to give them me stating any reason , i would look at them disbelieve them and say they only want to protect there own income , nothing to do with the dogs ,, , after all if they breed great dogs , you think they would be happy to have there line used , especielly if you went back to mate it with one of there other dogs , if there so paranoid about there line being bred simple answer keep all the pups themselves

Been giving this some thought , and too be honest and completly truthful i'm not a small dog lover always had and prefered big to large dogs ,, however the one i've got now is a small dog , and he's the most placid well behaved dog i've ever had , he does'nt play much but when he does and gets ecited starts nipping , just a finger a NO play gentle and he's back to sucking your thumb ,, i bought him on a spur of the moment emotionalk discision , i actually went to the pound to buy a big bull mastiff i had seen the previous day , but spotted him with the thing around his neck they had just deseed him, said hello to him he run over and that was that ,, he was actually used has there poster dog at that time , he was so cute . and weve been mates ever since , at least when he's awake nowadays ,, . But if i was to buy another little dog , i dunno i like the westies , and terriers , but if i was to buy from a breeder it would definetly be a aussie terrier , ,,, other than that i think i would go to the pound and just buy the scruffiest little terrier cross i could find

Rescue centres i don't know much about them except for the rspca i don't know any ,, but i will say if i wanted another dog , i would not go to the rspca ever again , I just don't like them , i think there a profit based organization who's sole ambition is to work to get govt and council grants ,and little old ladies leaving them money and animal lovers giving up there time to be a volunteer Rspca nearest to me i first bought a pair of dogs of them in 1985 ,, i bought my present dog about 7 years ago , then it was a dogs home , and if you wanted to rescue a dog you just drove up walked through the door had a look at all the dogs fell in love with one straight away , bought it and lived happilly ever after ,, Now you cannot do that i went a couple of months ago went inside and after waiting 20 minuites to ask someone to let me through was told to go away and make an appoinment to look at the strays and adoption dogs , why , has it changed , course they say covid , but to my knoledge dogs don't get covid ,, its a much easier rteason , and thats simple 80% of the kennels are not took up by dogs being rescued there took up by dogs being boarded ,,, its turned into a very profitable boarding home for dogs ,, there staff are volunteers they get govt and council grants , and basiclly with the help of thesee grants , take buisness of other boarding homes for dogs ,, RSPCA are just a buisness with a great story

Think the thing is what constitutes a breeder and a back yard seller,, Breeders are entitled to make a profit , byb i think most want stamped out , but who's to say who's who and whats what , its all very subjective , now my last two dogs have been rescue dogs , but prior to that i o always bought full pedigree , even got two boxers from the pound mother and son which had too come has a package , So what is a breeder ,, I remember when i bought a shepard , i went to a breeder who was advertizing , drove around 80-100 klm out into the southern hills of adelaide , along a long dirt road , came across this house , on , acre's of land , , remember i was a bit concerned about getting out the car , there were a big group of shepards just running around playing , all big strong dogs probably about 10-12 of them , I'm thinking is it safe ,, my missis says get out ya wimp , and gets out and starts patting them all , the owner /breeder , comes out she laughs and says you'll be fine , i get out and EVERY ONE of them was big strong confident and freindly ... Breeder tells me escuse the mess of the dogs ,, mostly all wet theve just come back from the dam , just out the back she had a big dam , apparantly every morning she let all the dogs out to run and they would go play in the dam come back and were mainly just out there pens playing and enjoying a great life ,, also out the back she had a whole row of kennels all with there own little run , she also had a big shed , inside the shed was a massive whellp box and a door that led to a outside enclosure ,, she told me , the mother lives here with the pubs till they have gone , that way when she goes out they follow and there usually 80% house trained from the mother , mine was 100% house trained 18 years never done a thing . she proudly shown me pics and medals , ribbons ect of the dogs which she shown past and present , it was a great set up , the breeder spoke to us at lenght and asked me what do i want most , out of a shepard , showdog , gaurd dog ect , i told her , big freindly confident bla bla bla , she asked the main thing do you want to show , my answer NO ,,, so she took me too a litter she actually had two litters ,, walked right up to a pup and said heres your perfect dog , , i said whats perfect about him ,, she said look at the size of him , he's massive for a 8 week old pup , i start to play with him , he's straight away giving me a little growl , tething at my hands , , she then said , he's not suitable for show because , one he's going to be too big , and two he's long haired , no good for the show ring pet only ,, i took him he was a great dog , the most gentle shepard you will ever meet , my youngest lad came along that year and the two were unseperable for years , from being 12 months of age my lad would climb on the monsters back and say gee up doggie , the dog loved it used to even lay down while he got on , they were stuck to each other , only thing was he was a useless gaurd dog , , that was a breeder and a good no Great one also remember i said i'll take him and got out the money he came with unrestricted papers , and she said deposit only , he's only 8 weeks old and i don't allow them to leave till there 10 weeks . Now fast forward 30 plus years i go looking for another shepard not long ago ,, i answer a couple of ads , one i go to its a person renting a house , knock on the door , obviously unemployed mother of a dozen kids says come in , but i'll just put the dog away , she has to put the father away its viscous , shows me the mother looks like a jackel , shows me the pups , i just say thanks but no thanks ,, go to the next one , there its the mother only and the pups , the mother once again looks like a jackel , but the owner spends a long time telling me about how her dog is on its way to becoming australian champ ,, i ask about the father turns out he belongs to her freind who also breeds , but thats ok she has pictures , looks like another hunchback jackel with a skinny fox like snout ,, of her i also get a lecture about how ethical she is and her dogs are sold on ltd papers because she's a responsible breeder , . yeh threw her mates jackel to mix with her jackel , one thng in common these two had was the price , around $3500 , i said , to the second BREEDER if i want one can i take it now , yes if you want , i say there only 6 weeks old will that be ok ,, course it will she assures me , but because he's not here you will have to get your secomnd injection at your own cost ,, , Ok i say thanks but no thanks , by the time i had got out the door she was virtually begging me to buy it for $2500 because that would pay her freind for the stud fee . and this ones supposed to be a ethical breeder , So end result i think it pays to look around , shop around and do your due dilligence Oh another thing i forgot to mention was papers and restrictions she changed her mind when i said i would'nt buy anything and be given restrictions , faced with losing a sale , her ethics went out the window ,, . what would i do if i still wanted a shepard easy ,, i would look high and dry for a breeder who dels in European shepards ,, imported at that , less chance of being mixed with a hunchback jackel , But i don't sorry but seems to me the GSD have been ruined since i bought one 35 years ago and i find it annoying

Too be honest if i ever bought a rental property again , WHICH I WON'T , i would ban dogs and kids , also young people , and unemployed , it would be a unit and someone elderly with a regular stream of income from a pension , Its a sad but true fact , a lot of landlords do not always get there rent , they get shafted and have to spend there savings on whats quite often diliberate damage

Never heard of a cobberdog ,,, a breed i'm suprised to hear is'nt a recognised breed in Aust is the Boarbeol

Don't think you would say that if you had done has i done and rented a few properties out for 30 plus years , and then spent has much money has i have replaceing chewed doors , dug up lawns , , chewed up architraves soiled carpets , ,

True but like i said , If there dogs are good , and i would want to see them ,,, ESPECIELLY a dobe or a shepard ,,, just like everyone , i've seen some awsome looking Dobes and Shepards , but seen more that just look OFF ,, and both these dogs , if i were to get one i would'nt settle for anything less than Big strong , European working lines .. When i was looking for another GS i got so over being told we breed them fine here in Aust ,, to cover the fact that they were trying to sell , skinny little jackel looking hunchback dogs they bred with there mate who had another skinny little jackel hunchback dog , with snouts like a fox ,

I've always been a lover of the westies ,, never owned one but like the look of them ,, On a couple of occasions i've made enquires about them and then not bothered , i've been told they have health issuse's , now i could be wrong on that no doubt westie owners on here will put me right on that ,, but being told that really did sway me not to get one ... If its correct , i think an elderly person would more likely be on a pension , and if thats the case , a dog thats contuinually at the vet or needs speciel medication is going to be a big drain financially , that should be took into account . My little white fluffy dog looks a bit like a westie , sometimes , others he looks like a maltese , basicly he's just a short stumpy lovable little thing ,, BUT he costs me a lot of money , constant ear infections , that just never seem to clear up for long ,, and getting worse , now there back every 3-4 weeks , , believe westies have skin problems , but like i say i could be wrong its only what i've been told ,, think a better option would be a aussie terrier i know for a fact just like the kelpie and the blue heeler , there a very sturdy robust little dog , , Aussie made for Aussie conditions LOL

Think the problem is two fold 1 ,,,, people who are in there own home and get a dog , don't relize how expensive dog food can be , its actually quite epensive to feed a big dog 2.,,,, Landlords don't have to worry if they can rent out a property , advertize and its gone straight away , distinct shortage in rental properties , and no pets allowed make it even harder if you have a dog .. Too be honest i can't blame them , over the years i had a few rental properties and learned years ago NEVER rent to people with pets ,, just an unfortunate fact , but most don't look after there animals or the house , when your a landlord and someone leaves , and you have to spend thousands fixing up damage , to lawns carpets , and just painting dirty walls caused by pets you only do it a couple of times before the NO PETS sign comes out . Never really ceased to amaze me , how many especielly young people would buy a dog and not give a thought to what would happen to that dog when they moved on

A knowledgable breeder who took time out for you , If there dogs are good , what more can you ask for

Can see where your coming from , i like large dogs , but i did get a acd i rescued it from someone who was going to put it down , absolutly marvelous pefect dog ,, but very energetic , i gave him to my son who wanted a dog for the kids , because i knew he was a perfect familly dog and was great with the kids ,, I did get another dog i got a shitzu cross maltese , i think , it is little white fluffy thing , perfect for any elderly person he's more a lap dog , yet with the terrier in him he does'nt mind being left alone , and never barks , USUALLY ,, but when he does bark such has right at this moment , i could bet my house there is someone there , he does suffer from ear infections A LOT , OVERALL A GOOD DOG FOR AN ELDERLY PERSON ,, , i think another good dog because there tuff , hardy , and playful with a character of there own is definetly the AUSSIE TERRIER . if i were to get another dog , the only small dog i would get is an aussie terrier other than that i would get another large dog ,, i would never own one but has aprevious poster stated , greyhounds are good for the elderly ,, my freinds on a caravan park we go to have one , it just lies all day long on a matress outside , never moves you would think its dead ,, but its super freindly and easy for them to handle , because its absolutly no work whats soever ,, , One thing about mine is i don't know what i'm going to get it varies al the time , we have an housboat , when we go on the river , forget to shut the gate which is easy to do because he's so quiet , and then you just don't know , for hours he will just lay there or be constantly at y7our feet won't leave my side , then you look around and he's gone , stuck his nose to the greound and just done what terriers do , his recall is non existant , i have to be next to him for him to follow me , but lucky he loves his lead , so if i shake the lead and call him he comes back running to get on the lead , sounds like someone like him would be perfect for you

Ok this is a question , for anyone moderatars , experts whoever ,, When you come on to this site . You are shown pics of dogs , couple of spaniels ect , however there is a pic of a german shepard looking dog ,, what is it , too me it is not a shepard , just wondering what breed , being a predominantly breed type forum , wondered what breed it was , its the second from the end right hand side on the home page , similaritys but defo not shepard

Certainly starting to develop traits which will not be welcome in a dog park , and might one day have a go at the wrong dog and get back something a lot more serious ,, if i was you i would seek out some good training for your dog , , myself personaly it would never happen to me , because i simply don't like dog parks , there always accidents waiting to happen

Facts are simply these oodle dogs are not bred for . anything other than sale , the only thing they have to conform to is the oodle look wether its a laboodle or cockeroodle , or whatever other concoction they come up with , there not a breed , there a mongrel a mating of two dogs that someone either thinks are going to look cute and fetch good money or theve seen someone else with one ,, If the relevant authorities are going to come down on any breeders these are the ones who need to be took to account , they are nothing more than backyard breeders , simple has that ,, First oone who should jump on them is the tax man , my son knows a fella who bragged he's earnt over a hunfdred grand from his 4 dogs , apparantly he has 3 bitches and one male , and just keeps pumping puppys out . he brags he gets 5-7 grand a pup and from what i've been told , al three just got threw in the backyard and left ,, apparantly some one did call the RSPCA , who went around but said they have plenty of food and water a shed to sleep in so there OK ... Far has i'm concerned ANYONE who breeds them is a parasite looking for an easy dollar .

Could'nt see the original post of the story done , so only know what i'm reading from comments ,, which brings me to ask , do these rescue organizations recieve funding from the govt , councils ect , I know the rspca do but what about others , it would explain why they exist if they don't seem to care .. On a side not i would say that , ACdogs are the one dog that needs to be thouroughly assessed big time more so than any other dog . In fact i would say a thousand times more so than any other dog , they are the one dog that you really have to watch closely AT FIRST . what do i base this on , well i'm not a dog behavourist , in fact don't even know if there is an acredited course for this , i'm not a dog trainer , and i'm not a dog breeder i BASE THESE STATEMENTS ON SPENDING THE LAST 30 YEARS OF MY WORKING LIFE GOING INTO HOUSING TRUST HOUSES , i was a maitenence contractor for the SAHT and has such i would go to at least 5-8 houses every single day ,, i always said to the guys working for me beware of the cattle dogs , a shepard , a rotty , doberman and most dogs will always let you know there aggresive its easy , but a ACD often would not until it bit you ,,, Now don't get me wrong i love them there probably my favorite dog of all except for the shedding , i adopted one at 12 months of age of a young girl with a baby who had to rehome him , he was fantastic with the baby , i brought him home and he was such a good dog , at 2 i let my son take him because he wanted a dog for the kids , he was such a good familly dog , he's 10 now and they still have him he's wonderful and best mates with the 2 year old will not leave her side , However at work i always found if the blokes said we got problems with the dog , 9 out of 10 times it would be an heeler they just don't seem to have any fear of strangers , we used to laugh about it when new blokes would start and it would'nt be long before they would say to me Jeez your not wrong about them heelers are you , not saying there viscous just that they have to be watched very closely if your not part of there familly , once they got to know you they were usually very freindly . I know lots are going to disagree and say its all dogs don't single out heelers , but this was my observations after 30 years of painting 60-70 houses A MONTH for 30 years . Lovely dogs though by and large , like i said my favorite dog ,, only reason i don't have one now is the wife said if i get one i'm the one who's got to hoover the house twice a day ,, and that ladies and gents is'nt happenning

Taking my dog to a dog park i , liken to throwing a loaded pistol in a toddlers play park ,, you would have to be mental , , Its just not rocket science , most just cannot control there dog on or off leash

I would rather just call a spade a spade regards oodles , are they a good dog , would'nt have a clue never owned one, would'nt dispute one way or another , why are they bred well theres lots of answers , cute ,, no shedding , look good , ect ect ,,, But thats a bunch of answers to another question that should be asked , which would be why do people buy them , which is a totally different question than why are they bred . The answer to that question is just a simple MONEY , people see hear of these dogs going for 5-6 maybee 7000 dollars , think Mmmm 10 pups 50-70,000 DOLLARS ,,, YES 50-7- THOUSAND DOLLARS ,,, are they bred by reputable breeders , the short answer is NO why you may say its simple there not a breed there a mongrel type dog , untested genetics , bred without pedigree , no way of t6racing full backgrounds, do these so called breeders care , not a chance , its money they care about and nothing else , why don't you see shepoodles , or rottoodles , simple big dogs that may not sell so there not don instead its ladoodle look a lot cuter . My wifes freinds daughter bought one , 7 grand ,, yes you read it right 7 THOUSAND DOLARS ,,, now this girl loves her dog , but up till now its a nightmare , the thing is flighty stubborn NERVOUS and i mean NERVOUS , virtually untrainable , she bought it when she lived at home , they paid thousands and i mean thousands , trying to train the thing start with it was kicked out of puppy class , too nervous and biting , put it outside and it screams yelps , cries for hrs , , bring it in its was from day one and still is destuctive , not to mention they cannot toilet train the thing , it poo's and wee's where it wants usually in the hallway carpet or when its weeing itself shaking ,,, the poor girl got married around 6 months ago rented a house , first inspection got kicked out , owner took one look at the mess and destuction it caused and said out and take the dog with you , they could'nt put it outside neighbors all sides called council because of the incessent barking crying and noise , the young couple have had to move back to her moms , with the dog , and she's had enough but can't bring herself to break the girls heart and insist she gets rid . At one stage they rang the breeder to see if they could help they were told , well you bought a poodle cross there highly strung what do you want me to do about it , then he said , it probably needs a mate i've got another you can have for 6 grand . Ther not bred by breeders there bred by puppy mills and backyard breeders for a dollar and thats why there bred

Agree more so with some breeds than others , i think the GSD is a prime example . i see so many every day , i walk everyday morning and evening come winter or summer regardless off sun or rain ,, i live opposite a dog beach and its my daily excercise ,, i see so many that are nervy , un confident and just bad examples of what used to be a very fine confident breed ,, if i was to get one it would definetly only be from working lines the confident self asurance what was once part of the breed is being bred out of it ,, A security dog trainer told me Rottys and dobes are next he's noticing its getting harder and harder to find dogs that will do the job , so much so there company now breeds there own , which is he's job , they get most there stock from Europe he was saying , he stated most of what they can buy in Aust are just fear biters and not acceptable , like i said after spending half my life walking on the dog beach i agree with him based on what i see ,,

Does'nt matter why she's scared of him , size , bigger teeth , big jowls , facts are she's scared so keep the dog away from her not rocket science is it ,, If your brother takes the attitude dogs doing nothing wrong he's not moving it don't visit , she's a liitle girl she's scared why put her in that position , i know adults who are scared of dogs , my father would never go in an house that had a dog he was scared to death of all dogs ,, he said it stemmed from being a kid ,, way your going on your child will end up the same way .... Jeez my youngest lad was petrified of the ghost train at the show , we did'nt fix it by forcing him to go on it ,

Can't even see why they bother doing studies on it . Its not rocket science ,, on the left you have wild dogs ,, wolfs , foxes , dingos ,, these dogs have not yet worked out how to grow grain , they don't know how to build or work machinery , plant corn or wheat , so they chase other animals and reptiles for there sunday dinner . Domesticated dogs on the other hand have come to rely on humans for food and humans themselves gave up hunting there food a couple of years ago so just go down the shop and buy it in the process they buy there dog food , hence dogs eating habits and digestive systems have evolved diferently , So there you have it lesson free , next one only half the charge of an expensive study , save money make me rich win win situation

You would get no argument out of me regards breeding if its done for the right reasons ,, People who pay thousands to import dogs , , transport them across country to be bred , ect ect ect ,, Well they have every right to breed there dogs , sell the puppys , and hopefully make it worth there while to carry on doing it and producing good dogs wether there for show , or pets if there producing good quality pups . However i will say like i said recently i did start looking for another dog , and preferably an older dog and i was disapointed at some breeders , who like i said advertized , brought up in familly home ect ,, but when asked and told its a must it must be housetrained , unnacceptable if not , i was 3 out of 4 times told NO ,, further question like has she been shown how did she do in shows , were met with we did'nt show her ,, she was breeding stock , so it was'nt a familly pet , was'nt a show dog , it lived in the run , and was finished with having litters , so time to go ,,, Err call themselves breeders i call them puppy mills getting rid of there dogs when no further use ,,

Its not really rocket science , i think the main reason for these doodle type dogs is simple its all in the doodle , lack of hair , people simply want a dog , a pet, a freind, a companion, whatever you want to call them . but in this present day and age of 2 people working the cleaner of the house wants LESS HAIR its the fact that a lot of these dogs are claimed not to malt or at least not shed too much .. Plus the fact they appear to be more lovable , cute and gentle ,, hence why its usually cavadoodle , labradoodle , and dogs renowned for the good nature , wether or not they are well i don't know i see them on the beach daily but never really interacted with any . But i think its definetly they are percieved has being gentle familly dogs who don't malt ,, after all i've never heard of a rottadoodle , or a sheperdoodle or really any doodle crossed with guarding breeds ... Do i like them personally i'm on the fence if there a good pet why not , just has good has any other mongrel i suppose ,,I'm definetly in favor of the low shedding , we have a dog that does'nt shed , and that really is a bonus we got him from the pound so did'nt know at the time , i just got him because he was young, and he picked me out ,, I actually went down there to buy a full grown bull mastiff i had seen earlier that day , went home and got the wife to show her ,the new dog that was coming home , Oliver seen me picked me out and 7 years later , i'm still wondering when he's going to wake up for more than a feed , a walk or a quick play , before he starts snoring again ... I do find the price of them insane , and i would NEVER own one simply because theres NO WAY would i part with 4--5 6 thousand dollars for a mongrel and people do , wifes got a freind who's daughter bought a cockerdoodle or some such thing 5 grand , must be mental . But i think there here to stay , because , lets have it right if you don't want to clean the house 3 times a day , and you have Mrs A selling her shepard which you know is going to shed , for 5 grand , or you have mrs b selling her labradoodle , with no shedding for 5 grand , most will pick the designer non shedder , I would'nt but a lot will , most don't understand or care about the breeding and in any case most of the time its rubbish ,, I was thinking seriously of getting another shepard i went to no less than 4 breeders to look at there pups every one of them gave me the spiel about being a responsible breeder , how there dogs were worth more money ect ect ect ,,, and everyone of them were showing me parents that looked more like jackels BAD BAD BAD examples of the breed ... After owning a heeler i love them , but the wife will not have another one ,, simply because when we have a dog its part of the familly and sleeps wherever it wants , inside outside , and dogs being dogs they will normally come inside , and that causes them to shed more , the heeler was the worst shedding dog weve had the wife says no more , i thought about a giant shnauzer , but decided they may be too energetic for my lifestyle and age , so knocked that one on the head . So i can really see why the non shedding or low shedding doodle crosses suit people . But is it bad too buy one i don't know like i said i would never pay that sort of money for one , Breeders seem to be dead against them ,, but heh ,,, I also don't want a pup , wife says nope let others get there house chewed up if we get one we get an adult dog ,, so i went looking for an adult dog and found these same breeders who were critical of oodle breeders calling them puppy farms , were quite happy to get rid of there adult mastiff or shepard they had for 5-6 years after its purpose of breeding had been fullfilled , and yet off 4 or 5 i rang to buy i found 1-- they still wanted top dollar and 2---- Out of them i rang 3 were not house trained whats that tell you they were not brought up in the familly has claimed , the 4th was on severe medication and was going to be a very very expensive pet , yet they still wanted $2000 for a 6 year old dog with problems . So really who are the puppy farmers ,, debatable is'nt it . . There would still be a lot of good breeders out there , after all over the years i've paid top dollar for dogs and been lucky i've bought quality dogs all excellent examples of the temperment and looks off that breed ,,, but i will say its getting harder to find them , Shepards are a good case in point , over the last 30 years , i've looked at them and think there not shepards anymore all the shepard traits and too a extent the true solid sturdy shepard looks have been bred out , what is it i kept hearing , WE BREED THEM FINE HERE ,,,and the fewer breeders the less competition , ,, really is an hard one , i think your just better off going down the pound and rescue the dog , its what i've done for my last two dogs and theve benn rippers , well the one we got nows a ripper when he's awake , but thats only until he can find a lap to lie on

My sister rang me about 2 months ago , she has a little dog dominering snappy little thing , pug cross or something , her son brough home a pup not sure the breed one of them big white herding dogs ,, she rang asking what should she do the pug did'nt like the pug and snapped at it run away from it and just did'nt want a bar of it ,, i advised her put them out together ,and ignore them let them get on wth it , the pug was used to being in sitting on her lap , she did , now there the best of mates the pug she says is a new dog he's come to life and she swears he's not has snappy anymore in fact a better all round dog ,, told her course he is , he's getting excercise and now actually being a dog

Think most above have said it right , Pups being taught some manners , it will learn when and how far to push the play , Only thing i would definetly do is feed them apart , I introduced a male shepard to a full grown staffy male , who was the boss but has he got bigger and older the only time the GS would stand up to the staffy was meal times , he was very food possesive , would gobble his own and then eat the staffys , so i fed them apart , and never had a problem ,,, years later after the staffy had gone , i brought a male rotty in , and was amused at the rotty pup being taught the same manners the staffy taught the GS regards play how much and how far , , what suprised me was the GS did'nt mind the rotty pup pinching his bone , or a bit of food , quite often they would leave one bone and sit chewing the other bone together . However that was only when the rotty was a pup , has he got bigger and older , the GS became more back to normal and domineered the food , he would push his bowl over to the rottys bowl show his teeth and eat both of them Suffice to say it was an easy fix , one was fed inside the other outside , bones one in the run one out the run , and it was important has the GS got older had his own place to go when he did'nt want to play , after he went , we got another rotty and it started all over again but by then when the new pup came in the first rotty had become food dominant , its just a dog thing ,,, i quite often have my sons dog a stumpy tail , come around he gets on well with my dog a little white dog a who knows what he is thing ,, they get on well , but i feed them seperate ,, theres no issues except the heeler gobbles his food , then mine will quite happilly shirk away from his own and let him eat it , he's timid , can't stand up for himself so i have to do it for him and either tell the heeler NO or quite simply put him out till my dogs finished eating ,, Your just discovering natural behaviour in the pack ,