coneye

Said a few times on here about the shepards , its absolutly disgracful whats happenned to them ,, like i've said i live virtually on the dog beach and see every single day shepards that look like skinny jackals with a hunchback ,, its criminal what they have done to that breed , and no one will tell me its not about money and winning ribbons

Mmmm Not going to comment on what you should do or need to do , lots on here with far more experience than me have told you ,,, But what does make me raise my eyebrows is your vet ,, you obviously seem a bit distressed and fair enough too that ,, but i'm suprised the vet or his assistant have not said bring them down straight away , and related to you the urgency that others on here have related . Since personaly i don't have a lot of confidence in most my local vets ,, couple of great ones but mostly just about the dollars , but i would be looking at a different vet maybee , one that can tell your inexperience and anxiety and work it out accordingly

Afraid they will just have to suck this one up and at least be thankful they got a refund ,.. Bit harsh is'nt it , but unfortunatly what i'm reading here is a sign of the times , its called bad buisness its just part of the modern world , its happenning all around ,, i and i suppose most everyone can tell horor storys about dealing with buisnesses and bad communication ect ect , Afraid its happenning everywhere and in most buisnesses ,, good old fashioned communication has gone right out the window ,, I mean even look at posts on here and see how many people have said , breeders don't answer there calls or emails ,,, breeders may say there busy , need to work or whatever , but facts are if your running a buisness any buisness its bad buisness and bad manners not to jump on and return calls straight away I know myself i run what i suppose you could say was a reasonable succesful buisness , i base that on the fact i retired at 55 self funded , but i still get phone calls for work , i have 3 sons who do what i did all work for themselves , and i stopped passing there names to potential customers , because they simply do not have the same ethics i had , , it bothers me and annoys me no end , when i get a call and then say sorry i'm retired but i can reccomend my son , then take there niumber and pass it to my son , only in 3-4 maybee 5 days , i'll ask how did you go with that job and the answer is , not rang them yet ,, Grrrrr it makes me mad , my attitude is , they ring you , ANSWER them straight away , its bad buisness and most of all bad manners not to ,,, different generatons different times , customer service is not at the forefront , and its just part of the changing world ,, i shake my head with them , , they turn there phones off at 5 o clock saying finished buisness hrs are 8-5 ,, i try to explain to them , i NEVER turned my phones off , i was open 24-7 for customers to reach , thats why i could retire early because i gave GOOD SERVICE ,, there attitude is different , don't seem that bothered , ,, and then they got annoyed when i stopped passing work on to them , and now pass it on to my mate who has the same attitude has me , Like i said its all a sign of the times , look around its everywhere , and theres always an excuse , to quote a famous song , The times they are a changing

You have a dog that will chase off maybee bite , a stranger / intruder , well i've had one and it did , and my attitude is and was then , GOOD he was doing his job thats what he's there for no different to a security dog or a police dog has far has i'm concerned , anyone my dog finds on my property at early hrs of the morning well stuff em ,, whats that saying I'd rather be tried by a jury of 12 than carried in a coffin by 6 . However there is another side to the story .. my dog was well trained freindly during the day good with strangers , but did go into gaurd mode at night and came on command . when he bit and chased the intruder he came back when called , But if i had a dog that was viscous and attacked other animals or people all the time i would'nt want to own it , i would consider it unmanagable , and GET RID ,, I would also NEVER NEVER NEVER , own 3 or 4 of them , because anyone with half a brain knows when dogs in a pack go into attack mode , they gee each other up these dogs i would consider uncotrollable and GET RID ,,

Hour drive there , an hour back , not ideal s it , wonder if one of them big paddling pools for kids would do it . Let them cool down and have fun maybee

Popular is just whats fashion at the time , can remember quite a few breeds that became very popular then lost favor ,, live looking at the dog beach , been here for around 30 years , go on it daily and seen them all come and go , will say though the staffy never seemed to lose its flavor , although now i don't see any where near has many pedigree ,most are crosses the oodle type are definetly popular seemed to have replaced the little white fluffy ones . One bunch of dogs that always bring a smile to my face is a lady who comes down with 5 yes 5 big Rohdesian ridgebacks , she controls all off them off leash ,, its funny to watch my sons heeler , try to round them up , they just love to run and he loves to round things up , I used to call him back but she just says , let them go there having fun , when they get sick of it which is rare , they just go for a swim , and he runs up and down to scared to follow them into the sea . When she leaves . he wants to go with her

Is that a council law up there ,, i've never heard of it , if it is its the most idiotic law i've ever heard , whats the reasoning behind it , surely it cannot be safety of any sort , otherwise why allow multi storey buildings without a slide from the backdoor , . If thats correct you could argue all responsibility for dogs , lays at the councils feet when this happens

You will never stop this sort of thing from happenning , just too many variables and reasons why it does and does not happen , , most people like the idea there dog is a protector , sfter all thats why they buy that certain dog , but by the same rule most are suprised if not horrified that there dog will go that extra 100 yards . its too complex an issue , especielly when were talking about a metre reader walking on too a property that may or may not have had notice there coming too ,, Very sad very tragic , but however these dogs must be destroyed there is no room in society for dogs that go that extra mile , regardless , Ok this time the owners may get off but what if the circumstances were different and these dogs dug an hole under the fence , and decided the guy coming home from work across the road was lunch. I don't care what any of these so called experts say , the facts are some breeds not all but some are bred and programmed for this sort of thing and given the right switches it comes out time and time again maybee its time to ban those breeds , ok they may be needed in some parts of cape town , Port Moresby , or Johanasberg , but not in Aust , But then again where do you stop Personally not an argument i would be willing to get into

Sorry i can't help , because thats the wifes department , BUT i did ask her and she's says , because we have three , one in the bedroom where he follows us at night , one in the lounge where you find him during the day , one in the bar / rumpus which he goes to when he wants to be alone , its not a big problem ,, however if one of them gets on the nose she says she just takes it too the laundremat ,,, plus i also know if i leave clothes on the bed floor , thats where he lays . In fact too be honest , he's teaching me manners my wife has'nt been able to teach me in years , i'm learning not to leave my shirts , jeans on the bed floor because chances are , i'll find him lay on them outside ,, worse thing about a doggy door

Certainly would not disagree with you there , however theres not a need for them just a want for them ,

Will admit i don't know much about them or at least probably no more than most ,, But my mate had 2 american staffys ,, both looked like english staffys only broader and slightly bigger they were what you would get if you googled amstaffs and lovely dogs i may add ,, seem to have the same temprement has a english staffy i owned 30 years ago real nice , soft and gentle , But my grandaughter has what she claims is a Amstaff ,, i took one look at it years ago and said rubbish thats a pitbull ,, taller , leaner , definetly got the staffy look but a lot taller , thick set body but longish legs , now that dog is different , it seems freindly , but it gets boisterous and wants to play that play goes to nipping , and then jumping very quickly , and he starts to get serious ,, its obvious to me her partner is scared of it becuse when it starts getting boisterous like that he just puts it outside it will not calm down , will say it 12-13 years old now and they hav not had an isue with it , theve brought a 5 and a 2 year old into the world and it seems fine with them ., i wrned her years ago to keep a close eye on it , and she does , her partner seems scared of t although he claims he's not , my grandaughter can control him with a single no , stop it listens to her and does has she says ,, but i can't help but think thats a dog given the right or wrong circumstances would go fro 0 -100 very quickly and without her there would be no stopping it ,,, i know they do not take him out because he's not good with dogs ,, when people come around and he wants to get boisterous with them they put him out , so all in all he's pretty well under control ,, Me i'm going to be happy when he passes on , at 13 it probably will not be long , because they recently spent thousands on some cancer treatment for him ,, but dunno , to me he's not a amstaff , they swear he is but he's not he's a definete pitbull ,, Suppose they are responsible owners , because i liken him to my rotty Naz , he was reactive , or could be , but i knew it and treated it accordingly , thing is though they swear he's a amstaff , but he did'nt come with papers , I think if your sensible and you want one you would come on here and buy a amstaff with papers , or just asume its pitbull or pitbull cross , and like that trainer said over the dutch shepards its in there genetics to be reactive , just needs the right button pushed

Think a lot of the amstaffs are in fact pitbulls ,,,

These topics will go on and on , we will never find a solution , I think the answer is to try and educate people , against owning a viscous dog ,, But thats a real hard one ,, I owned the biggest shepard i've ever seen in my life , but he was also the gentlest one i've ever seen ,, he actually watched an intruder come over my carport roof , and tried to play with us both whilst i grappled with the guy , so much for the guard dog i wanted ,, , i've owned two rottys ,, the female was perhaps one step above the shepard , she would at least bark at a stranger but then only at night , i know for a fact she would'nt protect my property , because i came home one day and found my mate in the back garden waiting for us , he had his grandaughter with him and she was playing with the dog ,, so much for viscous rottys ,, Oh and he himself did'nt know the dog .. But on the other hand i did have a big male rotty , he was freindly the postman used to stop and ask wheres naz he always if he had time , liked to have a quick play with him he was a rotty lover ,,, BUT i also know for a fact at night he would definetly go you if you came in my yard ,, i know that because i seen him do it he attacked a fence hopper who hopped into my garden early hrs of the morning , and no just a bite an attack , he hopped back over the fence and done a bolt but left a lot of blood behind ,,, Now heres the thing , i was proud of my gentle ones for being gentle , but i was also glad the mean one would protect , thats what i got him for ,,, but one thing all these dogs had iin common was i would never EVER leave them near children on there own ,, its just something thats ingrained in me , never EVER trust a dog completly .. If i ever had a yard ful of kids which i did when my boys were younger the dogs were in the dog run , I even stopped putting them in the run whislt out after my freind came in and let her out to play with his grandaughter , if we ever went out the dogs were in the house , NEVER ever left on there own with people they did'nt know , its the people we have to educate ,,, without getting in another argument , the other post Deleted , got a bit strong and heated ,and i don't want to rehash it all , but my points were always , on the basis if a dog is showing these tendencies and the owner cannot control it , you have a moral and perhaps legal resposibility to get rid of it , and by get rid i mean probably put it down . But even then you will still get it happenning especielly in other parts of the world ,, i've travelled a lot and can see why in some places in say America , and definetly Africa people woild feel the need for such animals , but the risk will always be there , and you will never tell these people not to own said animals ,, i mean jeez ,, some parts of Africa , its not uncommon for the locals to get a vigilante gang up and burn people alive because they were deemed has robbers or bad man . . But here in Aust we don't have a need for dogs that are bred to kill so its time to educate owners , and unfortunatly most will not think they need educting , so the only way is to bring in huge fines , take away and destroy . and just make people relize some dog breeds are just not meant for pets . I really like the Dutch shepards and was looking for one ,, thats where i came across while doing research , the video of the canadian trainer saying he was against them for pets ,, i agreed and changed my mind i no longer want one ,, he actually made a video where he said , most people just say ,, its the way dogs are brought up ,, he argued that was rubbish it was usually in the dogs genetic makeup , if thats what they have been bred for it will come out just needs the stimulation to bring it out .. , Thes topics are a shame because its usually poor people who just bought a pet and are genuinly shocked besides deeply upset that there dog could do such a thing , thats why good breeding and breeders are essential , , its all such a complex issue is'nt it

Problem is a lot of these dogs are nice dogs , but the facts are they are bred for a reason and its instinctive , , Idiot owners buy them and cannot train or control them . Facts are some dogs are just not suitable for familly pets , on u tube theres a Canadian fella who breeds , sells , and trains working dogs for security and protection work ,, he makes good videos , it was interesting to see him talk about dutch shepards , he said they should not be used for pets , Course he had a backlog of people with the mine was the best dog ever , but he was generalising , like he said they are a very very reactive dog , and the dog that has a far higher percentage of turning and biting there owners , get a shepard he says , very interesting to listen to him , mind you he was refering to the ones that come from working lines . But also good points made about africa and the crime ,, because to be honest , I've been to south africa , and i'll tell you this much if i lived there , in certain parts never mind a pit bull i'd have a lion in the house , , in fact i'd have two just to be sure they done there job ,

To answer your question I would'nt want to if i had a gentle one BUT if the law banned rottys has a dangerous breed i would'nt own one simple ,,

Mmmm diferent countrys different ways of dealing with things ,, In Aust the way to deal with dogs that attack children seems to be ,, Go see a dog behavourist it might not be the dogs fault its got toothache ... mind you that depends who you talk too my way would just be GET RID

This is what happens when you give nutcases a platform .. First of all they seem harmless , then they seem like a joke ,, but the more they worm away they get supporters , who are just has cracked has they are , after a while they become vocal then very vocal , they then get to the stage where people become afraid to talk against them or stand up to them , in case they themselves are singled out to be called names , ostracised whatever .. Then when there views are in plain view for all to see, people still ignore it and why , because people are always going to be made closer to sheep than wolfs , its a fact , people will usually walk away from confrontation they just don't need or want it in there lives , but the onces causing it not only want it,, they need it , thats why we have loonies with loony ideas all over the place . Just like even though i'm not having a go at anyone with these statements just saying it how it is ,, i've got no doubt Troy is going to be asked to give me a talking too , because others don't like my attitude , way i express myself or even the amount of comma';'s i put in ,,,,, Too be honest though politiclly i don't really care one way or the other , i don't gamble ,so if they never have another horse race in the country it will not bother me , however , if they manage to ban horses and ponys , the little girl up the street who's got a pony is not going to be able to get one . i don't breed or show dogs , they could bring in all the rules they want i'll always have a dog , just eventually people will not have what they want they will have what they can get , because these crackpot organizations do not go away , and if you want to know why its an easy answer , MONEY they always seem to secure funding then when the right people are onboard its govt grants , and guess who usually ends up with the new fairlaine to drive and the office with a well paid job , who knows if they become a political party affiliated with the greens , in parliment , the worlds there oyster .. If your like me a fence sitter who does'nt care , well do what i will do , go get a stubby or 6 , sit on the fence and watch it like its a game of tenniss , back and forth , back and forth , BUT .... if YOUR AN ABSOLUTE ANIMAL LOVER , who breeds , shows , dogs , takes in waifs and strays and fosters them because you just love animals , well i suppose if your 60 it does'nt matter by the time they get what they want you'll probably be dead or need looking after yourself ,,, BUT,, and heres that terrible BUT again if your only 25 or 30 by the time your 60 there may be lesgilation been brought in that will ensure you will , never be rescuing or fostering , breeding and showing animals or keeping pets , your grandkids will never own or play with a dog , never ride a pony , because the loonies will be in charge of the asylum . Don't think it will happen look around , see how the worlds changed , ESPECIELLY the western world , who would off thought for example the ARia awards when started would be getting rid of the best male and best female singer , and having a best non gender award .. THE WORLD IT IS A CHANGING . there we go just another crackpot opinion

THIS

Happens in all walks of life the small minority , shout loud and long till they convince the majority to just keep stum or agree with them , and they do keep stum because most people would rather walk away from confrontation , and these people know that so they just get louder , scream there right and everyone else is wrong , until people think there the majority and then just go along with it to be part of the group and be accepted .. Its just life .

My frustrations , when i was looking for a dog a few months ago , was simply i was looking for an older dog , i was very breed specific i knew what i wanted ,, To be honest HOW MUCH was never ever going to be my first question , because it does'nt matter sooner or later we come to the price , and just has breeders are not scared of telling me why there dog is worth that much i'm not scared to say sorry , sell him to someone else , its too much . My biggest problem was finding a dog that was brought up in the familly enviroment in the home just about everyone i spoke to claimed ,, I based the fact that when i pushed and reiterated it MUST BE HOUSE TRAINED m or i will bring it back , it usually came out that the dog was'nt house trained it lived / slept in the kennells ,, also what i had a problem with was paying a few thousand for a 5 year old dog that came from a breed that don't usually live past 8-9 years anyway , so it was only likely to ever be a dog for a couple of years that we could enjoy before the vet bills started coming in . Its a really really hard subject because BOTH sides are right , there are a lot of people who just tell breeders what they want to hear , and are good at it ,,, but theres just has many breeders who do the same , that tell , lies about the dogs upbringing ect ect . , Suppose the best way is to go to the local dog shows , kennel club meetings , spot the breed you want and get to know the breeders and ask there advice ,, But then again good lucjk with that one , i tried doing that and came away even more flustered , the back stabbing and bitchieness was unbelievable , LOL it was actually quite funny but if your sensible you will get past that and learn a lot

Thanks Ann i'll give it a dozen face palms , then ,, because the second dog had already shown bad tendencys attacked and killed weeks earlier , yet kept around a baby

2 genuine questions here 1--- Whats Facepalm 2 --- These two dog behavourists or whatever they are ,, do they do any sort of course , at uni , a dog centre or whatever work with vets ,, have to have 5--10---15 years experience of breeding , working , training dogs or just set themselves up and call themselves dog behavourists or whatever with no qualifications neccesary , just like a lot of them on U tube who try to tell you if you buy the lead or 2 inch collar off them all will be well , but you must subscribe .

I know when i was a kid , seemed to be border collies everywhere , and just usually hanging around on the front ,, mind yoy i still live in the same area , and it was different then , it was right on the outskirts of Adelaide and a country area then , Just new small estates going up there was still a lot of farms and winerys around and every kid seemed to have a dog .

She will and the end result will be what i said all along , she will get rid of the dog , but i bet its still there if you want it , won't cost you thousands has you just told me , because your a qualified dog social worker , behavourists i doubt work for 10 dollars an hr , and i doubt they will fix it in 2 sessions so they will cost money ,, but heh , your qualified like i keep saying YOU TAKE IT but no you don't want the responsibility do you ,, BUT you don't mind putting the guilt trips on this poor lady about it deserving chance 7-8 and 9 ,,, i stand by what i said she should'nt listen to idiotic advice from lonely people who love dogs more than the human race simply because by there own admission there lonely... Good bye good night and bon voyage ,