coneye

Think you hit on something there ,, my current dog was fro the pound , previous dogs all been pedigrees from breeders , but like i said when looking for another shepard i gave up , the breeders dogs i looked at has far as i;m concerned were all ugly , unhealthy looking jackel faced hunched backed , short legged , BAD EXAMPLES , that cost an absolute fortune and i think the only gaurantee i would of got is i'm gonna get huge vet bills ,, However the one or two i did see that were good looking dogs came from European stock and were very very expensive and being bred more for security , price was out of my reach ,, But if jane up the road who had a nice one , decided she was going to mate her bitch with peters nice dog , provided both parents had a good temperment i would'nt hesitate to buy and could'nt care less if they were so called BYB , 9 times out of 10 its them owners proud of there dogs and want to see some offspring , course there are exceptions ,, but the thing is they are breeding there dogs to there expectations of what the breed is , not some show standard that keeps changing largely depending on who in power shouts the loudest and wants change to suit there own dogs

Lots of problems here , can they be fixed probably not , well not 100% anyway , but if you do want to fix them how would you do it by lesgislation probably not , theres too many out there who don't care about rules ,regulations and such , because the dollars to easy available , So what would the best way be , . Too be honest i don't know i'm not a breeder ,i don;t show dogs i'm just an average guy who has owned dogs all his life , never been without one since i was a 8 year old , because they really are mans best freind . But i do have an opinion , some may agree most probably will not , i'll share it anyway , so lets talk about the only breed i personaly have had which has been dramaticly affected , , the GERMAN SHEPARD . I bought one around 32 years ago , from a breeder , this breeder had a lot , fantastic set up in the country , they all roamed free on the property and spent most there time swimming in the dam kennels at night , Anyway i went and told her i wanted a large one , preferably long haired , she led me straight to a litter and said take your pick , this litter was actually cheaper she said , , explained to me because there long haired and there going to be too big to show both traits she said didsqalified them from the show ring , , who cares they were great looking dogs , but a couple of other litters she had were all show quality and she was selling them to show homes only , i suppose for a premium price i don'y know , Sam cost me $300 Now fast forward 19 years , Sam died at 18 lived a long life i had already couple years before bought a rotty and had the 2 dogs , actually Sam out lived a staffy who was two when i bought Sam , then a rotty , who only lived 9 years , and was 14 whan i bought the second rotty , Anyway point i'm making is this , when he went i thought i'm going to get another GSD to keep the Naz the rotty company , and i set of looking . and boy was i suprised ,, even though i live right in front of a dog beach and spent hrs and hrs there , i used too and still do go down with my rods and fish there , always took the dogs and they would spend 4-5 hrs running around and playing , but even though i seen them everyday , i would just think Sams the best looking shepard that ever comes on here i never noticed the confirmation was changing , Anyway , i start looking for another GSD and was i suprised every where i went , the breeder would tell me , we breed them Fine , i failed to understand what that meant , because what i was looking at was not a big strong sturdy dog alert and confident with a striking posture , i was looking at skinny , jackel looking things with long thin snouts , banana shaped backs , and deformed looking back legs , where had all the big strong dogs gone , , i seen dogs that had parents , who really were just one step from dragging there back legs , it was terrible , breeders had changed the definition of a shepard to suit themselves , YET these dogs were entering shows , so whats that mean it become acceptable to class a skinny looking jackel with a banana back in the shows has a good example of the breed , and therefore over time educating the uneducated that this is the norm ,, . now theres a reason for it what that reason is i can only assume , and i quickly assumed that the reason was money , the show scene is clicky , not everyone has money to import or buy top dogs , so they changed the confirmation to suit mary and josie up the road , over time they changed the confirmation of the mighty GSD , now if these dogs were to all start losing at the shows and judges insisted , no hunchbacks with back legs so out of shape the dog can hardly walk , no long skiny snouts that looked like a fox , and started awarding medals to good strong healthy dogs , then thats what the breeders would breed , thats what the public would want in a shepard , because lets have it right i bought Sam 32 years ago and he and his siblings were absolutly perfect examples of a shepard , just too big and long haired so could'nt be shown and i could'nt find one like him anywher , If i was to buy another shepard it would have to be a European import ,, but the point i'm making be it pugs , shepards or mastiffs if the judges say what the confirmation should be thats what the breeders will follow , ... Just my thought right or wrong

If i seen a dog with cropped ears my immidiette thoughts would be owners an idiot , just a wally who wants a tough looking dog , because he thinks it makes him a tough looking goose . Although will admit not seen many except in pictures on tv ect , Did see an american staffy with cropped ears , it did look like a tough dog , and the owner looked like a skinny scrawny , underfed junkie .

Think the key issue here is what you said , I HAVE TRAINED , turn on go to avoid situations ,, excatly what i used to do often with 2 big extremly dog reactive dogs i owned it was part of there training , however i would summize you are comfortable training dogs how you want them same has i am , but not everyone is , and theres a difference between you myself or anyone else comfortable with dogs especielly big dogs , and someone like my wife who lacked then and now the confidence , all she would train a dog to do is react more

Used to work in social housing and have been told a million times , Its ok he does'nt bite just walk in ,,, and a million times my answer was , he don't bite you , i'm not taking the chance put him away or stay here till i'm comfortable ,, and the sneaky ones 9 times out of 10 were the heeler and the kelpie . LOL Heelers especielly sneaky they would come from behind LOL

Mmmm another double edged sword lots of them around ,,, to socialize a dog , what do you do , you take it out , lots of walks , get it used to the noise of cars , roads , ect ect , you allow it to meet and mix with other dogs and people , so when its older its used to them and a nice calm dog , if its a bit boisterous at 15 weeks so what its a baby thats something it will grow out of but meeting and socializing grow with a confident streak hopefully . But when you want to train a dog to be suspicous , intolerant and sometimes aggressive , what do you do , start with basics are , when people are coming towards you , shorten the leash , pull the dog close make him wary , decide excatly what your trying to do . I have had a couple of dogs i would'nt let my wife walk because she could'nt control them , both were a bit lead agressive when with her , i watched and followe once i could'nt undrestand because they were not like that with me , quickly spotted it was'nt the dogs it was her , if she seen someone else with another dog , she immiedietly tensed , held the dog and shortened the leash , why i asked she said i'm scared in case they fight , she did'nt relize her fear fed the dog and they were sensing it and proctecting her , basicly people especeily people with dogs could not come near her they would get very leash reactive ,, Yet with me they were great , , end result i stopped the wife walking them on her own they were just too big and strong to take a chance , so like i said be careful what you train them for Better a freindly confident dog thats good with strangers , than the other sort

Its a real hard one , I'm a dog lover , but i rented a couple properties out and allowed dogs and cats , but it did'nt take long before it was a firm NO PETS , its sad but true that the damage done just was'nt worth it ,

I'll probably cop a lot of flack for this , But i would say have you got the right breed of dog for YOUR temprement some dogs breeds are just too much for some people , thats not saying there bad owners just really its horses for courses ,, Myself i tend to like the bigger dogs , rottys , shepards , have been my favorite i tend to do well with dogs that need a firm hand , All the big dogs i have had my wife could not walk them , and outside could'nt control them at first so it became my job where i had no problems , i have no trouble being firm with a dog and i insist it knows i'm the boss and behaves , a rotty we had used to do what you say , mouthing , playing rough and then even tried showing his teeth , that was very quickly established its a NO NO he turned out to be a great dog , but it was myself who trained him , left to my wife it would off done has he wants and been uncontrolable resulting in him going , but like i said its horses for course ,, Once trained he turned out like all the others great dog , but my wife could NEVER have trained him We now have a little dog , he's a very quiet dog who just wants to lay next to you getting a pat , when he's awake that is my wife is and always has been very comfortable with him , the bigger dogs always had to be shown there was a pecking order and there at the bottom . Not having a go at you just i think some dogs and breeds need a firm hand and not everyone has one. You will get some good advice on here , but what you also need to take into account most on here are experienced dog people , and more than capable of carrying out the advice they give you , are you yourself capable of that thats the issue , do you know the difference between a dog nipping and working itself up into a bad situation ,pushing boundreies and showing no fear , or just simply mouthing , and communicating with you , like i said what breeds is horses for courses . Kelpie are a working dog breed , some are suited to work , some just not suited to city life . Good luck

Well i've just been up there AGAIN terrible experience , talking about this shelter just made my wife say once again lets get a playmate for our dog , we have always owned 2 dogs makes life easier they keep each other company if were not home . So knowing that i have been turned away before no people walking through policy , i done the right thing , rang the 1300 number went through 4-5 prompts and was told i don't need an appoinment just go up there , told we have reverted back to our old walk in policy to try and bring the numbers down , Great , i said are you sure i said i don't want to get there and be told i need a booking ,, No you will be fine said he lady , but go early she said to allow yourself plenty of time with the dog if you want to adopt , so off i go . I was working 80 klm away today so took the day off left the job and drove the 80 klm , although i only live 5 klm away i tdid drive 80 klm from work and arrived early , well i arrived , waited paitently at the front desk for approx 5 min , then asked can i go see the dogs please ,, to be told walking through is no longer allowed , WHAAAAT i said i was told an hr and 8oklm ago i can , no not here you need an appinment , i said thats not even what your web site says now , she answered you want to look at a dog , look at them pics and pick one then arrange a time to spend some time with it ,,, I said you don't pick a dog or a pup from pics , you see whats on offer and THEY PICK YOU ,,, well sorry but if you want one from here thats the way she said , , you can't pick from pics , you look and see if there freindly with you . So i asked lets make it clear you want me to pick a dog of the pics , tell you which one , and then make an arragement to meet it , YES she answered , and what about what i was just told fro head office i can walk through , and choose , don't know why she told you that was the answer , what about the 80 klm and an hours drive i just done , sorry she said ,, Ok i said if i have to chose from a pic , wheres the other pics of the other dogs , i asked ,, she said theres the pics on the board , i answered i don't want to choose between 6-7 staffy and bully crosses , how about pics of the other 128 dogs up for adoption , posted in the news by this shelter , why only then half dozen dogs ,, sorry can't help you your not allowed to walk through and look she said . So in theory if they have 120 dogs , i have to make an appoinment to see them all before i say , lets go back to number 48 he was really freindly and liked me Guess what they can stick there dogs up there proverbial , i'm done with that organization , seems reading reviews i'm not the only one to come across this stupidity , no wonder there getting crowded , talk about make it hard , its put me off getting another , and if i do i'll definetly go to another organization Which brings me to there kennels for boarding , most were empty you can see them from the road , so why are they over crowded , they have around 200 boarding kennels nearly all empty , after all they are supposed to be a rescue home not a boarding kennel thats what the grants are for

Will say i've been totally ignorant of any move or lesgislation to ban / outlaw / get rid of dogs until i started reading it here , but has a general layman i would agree straight away get rid of puppy farms , in my head it conjures up images of poor little dogs being locked in cages only brought out to breed and have pups , wherass breeders i have images of where i bought my pedigree dogs from , one a staffy nice lady owned two that she used to show , she was right into the scene and lived it she was great to deal with and wanted to keep in touch to see how the pup done , but had 2 litters mine was from the last litter she was doing she was keeping one herself to breed from , the other a shepard , lady lived on acrerage , had kennels and probably 10 -15 of the happiest dogs you could see they had kennels but predominatly roamed free most slept in the house , all had a dam which they spent there time swimming in , Actually probably where i would want to live if i was a dog , she used to show but stopped because of time but still used to breed them , why would you want to stop these people from breeding , , but heres the million dollar question at what stage does a breeder stop becoming a breeder and become a puppy mill ,, theres lots out there where the dogs just live in the kennel , the bitch will have 4-5 litters , not a lot of excercise yet still shown , its a real hard one is'nt it , especielly when pups go for huge money

There not closed there still taking existing bookings and will take a pre arranged booking , ALL bookings are pre arranged , you can't just rock up and say here mind my dog for me . there saying they have 128 dogs in 80 spots ,,, i can tell you thay have a lot more than 80 kennels throughout , bet you any money if i make an appoinment to go look at buying a dog , they will not let me into the locked part where the boarding dogs are to have a look

Mmmm ,, Well i've already posted on here a story about how i over the years have bought numerous dogs from the RSPCA , I also mentioned how i went to the rspca to get a little mate for the dog i currently have , whereass in the past i would walk in have a wonder around , leave and come back when driving past and eventually the right dog would find me , this time the door was locked , asked a passing staff member if i could go trough to have a look , only to be told no make an appointment covid and such , then after nearly 30 minuites of lining up to make an appoinment , i gave up , covid my backside , that paticular rspca has , fenced off and locked up the majority of there kennels to use for lucrative boarding , they have plenty of kennels available just not available for strays or surrenders they need them for boarding , hence don't want public seeing them , the dog i got and have now had for 7 years , when i got him i was charged an extra 100 dollars WHY because little white fluffy dogs are popular she said so i have to pay more than the original fee advertized on the kennel i wanted him he picked me out so i paid it , Which RSPCA was it you guessed it the Lonsdale one , the one thats making a good buisness out of govt grants , expensive dog kennels and volunteers to work all on the pretence of housing lost and unwanted dogs , Over the years though i have wondered how come it only seems to be staffy crosses that they have , don't pedigree dogs get lost or surrendered any more , or could it be they get sold seperatly has my wife says to the staff ,

Said on here before i took in a 10 month old cattle dog , i walked and walked and walked that dog , and it was never enough , took him to the dog beach every day , i would fish off there he would spends hrs running around playing with every dog who would play with him , his favorites were 4-5 rhodesian ridgbacks , the lady who brought them like me got great amusement watching him trying to round them up , but we could be 4-5 maybee 6 hrse there get home and he would want to do it all again , In the end i gave him too my son i just could'nt keep up with him ,my lad and his wife were and still are avid joggers , plus 3 kids to play with , it took him 5-6 years to settle down , now he's has quite has a mouse , just follows the 2 year old everywhere , won't leave her side , then sleeps , it gets better just wether or not you can wait that long ,, he's 10 now and the only excercise he wants is when he follows the young one around the garden , or when i take my 8 year old dog around and he'll play for 10 minuites other than that he's now a couch potato .. Its going to take time

Suppose personaly if i was selling pups , i would probably put pics on after all cute sells and pups are cute , ones got a black face maybee what the buyers looking for , ones brindle and white same again , would help sell , regards worried about someone stealing there pics , well just google cute dogs see what you come up with millions of puppy pics on line if they want to steal ,,, Price i woud put price on has well then people can make up there own mind wether to even bother ringing , will say it would of saved me a few phone calls in the recent past , where i have rang over an older dog , purposly not asked price straight away because i know it upsets some breeders ,, but sooner or later yoy get around to it . Not all prospective buyers are horrible people willing to pay thousands to buy a dog so they can mistreat it ,or turn it into aa puppy farm , some actually spend thousands because they want the correct pet for them . I've actually had a couple of real nice pleasant experiences with breeders i've bought dogs from and i would highly reccomend them if they were still going , but thats over a good few years , But i've also recently had some not so good i stated on another thread about this recently out looking for an older Rotty , WIFE JUST DID'NT WANT THE PUPPY CHEWING HOUSE TRAINING STAGE , i came across a few breeders who advertized , great dog , loves kids , brought up with familly in house ect ect ect ,all the usual stuff . only after answering a million questions even asked to send pics of my backyard , where i lived one asked for my address said she wanted to google where i lived so she could google if in fact i did live opposite a dog beach i could excercise the dog after answering all questions which i thought were fair enough , after all its there dog they want to obviously go to another good home , i asked my own questions , such has how many dogs do you have do they sleep in kennels , house trained was a HUGE factor for me , the answers usually came out lives in a kennel not really house trained , but should'nt be hard to train , good luck with that one , my wifes not putting up with stepping in dog poo throughout the house , then to how often they play with kids , Oh when my grandkids come over they play with them fair enough , my grandkids would'nt bother anyway , , then sooner or later it came around to price , $2500 for a 6 year old rotty thats had 3 litters and no longer needed ,,, Yeh right i've had a staffy lived 15 years , shepard 18 years , spaniel 15 -16 years , 2 boxers 14 -15 years , but my favorites the 2 rottys i had , 7 and 8 years respectivly , not really any health issues just both died young and its just a fact rottys don't live a extra long life , so how they have the cheek to ask that sort of money for a dog thats run its course with them, and no longer any use to them , was never part of the familly lived in a kennel , just needs a loving home for its later years , yet they act all morally superior is beyoind me . Course thats not all breeders there are some great ones out there , but not all are great and there is sometimes a dubious reason there vague but just has a good breeder has to know the right questions to find out if its a good home , a buyer has to have a keen eye and know the questions to ask to find if its a good breeder there dealing with, , all a double edged sword , and i personaly would welcome any breeder stating they would like to keep in touch , maybee see pics later even visit later to see how said dog is going , to me that just shows that the breeder really does care and i would welcome it , but then again other side of the coin theres no way would i buy a dog and then be told to desex it , if i bought a female , i would look sideways at a breeder who asked me to desex it when it was a pup , if it was older , i would simply agree if they payed , because my wife would want a female desexed , after all it would live in or outside the house dogs choosing sleep where it wants ,BUT if it was male , theres no way would i get it desexed unless it was a health issue . so i would'nt be told and breeders now a days want to tell you

Think i would be making a report to the RSPCA see if they have any teeth ,, next one would be a phone call to the taxman , 36 pups at say 3 grand each thats over 100 grand interesting to see if they paid the tax i doubt it ,, and if they had not i'd be quite happy to own up and say i called them

I got a heeler about 11 years ago , think he was actually a stumpy tail heeler , he did'nt have a tail , it was amuzing watching him on the dog beach try to round up other dogs , in paticular a lady who used to come with 4-5 full grown ridgebacks , they would group together and he would try to round them up , even has he got older he would still try but could never catch them was funny to watch them out run him , then stop wait for him and start again ,,, now my son owns him he's 11 or 12 now and follows the 2 year old every where , giving her a nudge to change direction he done it with her sisters has well when they were babies ,, other toddlers come around they play in the garden and he watches like a hawk , herds them away from the swimming pool fence , stuffed how we know he knows its dangerous , but he's always done it even when the adults take the kids in the pool area with there armbands and floaties , he puts himself in between them and the water . Best familly dog i've ever seen

Interesting , i'm going to look up Koolies never heard of them ,, are one breed suitable over another for cows has oppossed to sheep

Would imagine this would be a great sport for people and especielly good excercise for the elderly , don't know anything about it but i've seen it on tv and like watching it ,, then again i like watching dogs run around , when i was an apprentice i remember working on a farm and used to watch the farmer and his daughter both jump on there little trail bikes the dogs would jump on one on the tank one on the passenger seat , and the 4 dogs and them two would head off over the horizen and come back with the sheep , so question for you farmers and country people on here , which make the best sheepdog border collie , kelpie , or throw in heeler , just interested to know from the people in the know ,, are kelpies and border collies good with cattle has well

Certain rescue centres it pays to inflate or make up numbers , Have 150 kennels , fill 100 with boarding kennels usually full at $35 a night , other 50 keep strays and unwanted , get mainly animal loving volunteers to do majority of the work for free , sell the strays and unwanted for $500 -$600 collect money from councils and govt and little old ladies who leave them there fortunes what they can't sell there resident vet gives the needle turns into a very very lucrative buisness , pays them to inflate figures , after all there not going to say were on top of the poblem we don't need the grants are they , , being a charity there not going to want to change things and pay tax on the massive money that comes from the volunteer run boarding kennels

Well i can't speak for all rspca shelters , but the boarding kennels in the one close to me are segregated from the mostly empty ones with rescue dogs , regards being a disaster why , it worked for the 40 years i know theve been there , and its how i have bought 4 dogs from them over the years ,, just walked in off the street regular had a look around and when i seen the one i wanted i bought it gave it a great home and everyone was happy in one case i bought 2 that were together mother and son boxer they had been there a long time no one wanted to buy two together with one being old ,, i felt the same has the rspca they should'nt be seperated so i took them both and saved them the needle they were shortly up for , but it was the ability to just pop in have a look when i was close until i found the right dog that worked , were not talking a private house here were talking rows of kennels all dogs in locked cages but you had the ability to just walk in and look , chances always were i would go 4-5 maybee more times before i found the dog i wanted , quite often just popping in when i had a spare minuite and was nearby ,, making 4-5 appoinments to suit there time frame means people taking time off work , Nope i would'nt do it , Course its possible my local one is the only one that does it , i would'nt know , but i do know a few months ago i did go to see about a playmate for the dog i have now ,, and was turne away told to make an appoinment , then stood in line to try and make one giving up and walking out after 20 maybee 30 minuites , , not making an appoinment and put it in the too hard basket , but who knows if it was like it used to be i may have had a good home for a rescue and a mate for my dog ... I may be cynical but i don't think its bright if your overcrowded with dogs like they claim to put obstacles in the way of prospective buyers . I just could'nt be bothered making appoinment after appoinment till i found the dog i like ... right or wrong who knows , but theres a saying , if its not broke , Don;t fix it . Cheers

Only playing devils advocate here , but besides state govt grants there is council grants , personal donations of which theres a lot , selling of the animals , most staff being volunteers , they make money , why else would they spend money chasing down and hunting others if not to just keep control cut out opposition. Not to mention my local RSPCA when you go in has perhaps 200 kennels but only around 10 with puppys , 30 or so with dogs for adoption which most are empty and probably 150 segregated all filled with Boarding dogs which is quite lucrative , which is why i suspect the last couple of years you cannot just roll up have a look walk around and fall in love with a rescue then buy it ,, you have to make an appoinment ,, Why , i think the reason is simple , they want the security of keeping Joe public away from the boarding dogs

Like i said its all common sence really

Reading the Netherlands have banned designer breed dogs especielly pug type with flat faces , can understand that lots i believe have breathing problems , but don't know if it includes your Goodle type mixes

Really is a Pandoras box is'nt it ,,, Unless the rescue home is financial and making money , be it grants or donations or just some animal loving Billionaire , its always going to be hard to do it properly , sooner or later it will become overcrowded and not the best place , Think what you need is strict regulations on how they are kept and what conditions , be it 3-4 rescues or 100 , and unfortunatly those that cannot be rehomed , perhaps given to the RSPCA , after all they do recieve massive amounts of funding , perhaps put them in charge of checking out and making sure rescue homes are up to scratch , then theres the problem they are a buisness and will not want competition . Don't think there a buisness , my current dog had a hold put on him , on day one of being there , something against there rules well at the time not sure now , but he had the hold put on him and i was lucky enough to see him on the last day of the hold when the person who was in management there decided they didi'nt want him , i jumped at him but was charged $150 MORE than the normal price they stated , we can sell white fluffy dogs all year rnd so we want more than normal ,, i wanted him so i payed it . It really is a nest of worms and facts are some animal lovers just love animals so much they can't see the woods for the trees , hard one and councils will just pass the buck ,

Some people really are idiots and i mean idiots on purpose , start with Every single day i walk my dog ONLEASH to a dog beach , on my way there i always pass other dogs and there owners , 99.9% the other dog is freindly the owner is freindly , and its a hello goodbye , and ALL dogs are on leash , when i get there i UNLEASH my dog it runs around and plays with other dogs ,, over the years i've seen a few aggressive dogs run around but by and large most people take there dogs there to run and there not dog aggressve ,, But every now and then you will still ge an idiot walk through a bunch of dogs playing and start demanding that you leash your dog because they want theres left alone ,,, STRIKE A CORD PRINCESS FRU FRU ,,, when the simple thing would be to not take there unsociable dog to the dog beach ,,, Jeez woman you sound like my mate who went to a day on the green , could;nt be bothered going early to get a good seat , walked in last set up his blanket and drinks at the back then when the concert started , demanded everyone in front probably 10.000 people sit down because he could'nt see the stage , then when they would'nt he left and complained he could'nt see the stage , he's a total goose has well . Don't want dogs running around and spoiling your moment alone with pooch ,,, go elswhere not to a dog beach .