Amax-1

Good choice!! Realistically, dogs are an issue for people up to no good and bad guys make it their business to know the breeds most likely to give them grief. GSD's are the most widely used breed in protection roles globally and even if the individual dog isn't that good in a protection role, the bad guy never knows the training that could be on that dog. Perhaps a seemingly calm GSD may let the bad guy over the fence, and then nail him when he's in the yard? Bad guys are always wary of GSD's by default and they don't have to show hostility where other breeds often need fence fighting hostility to be taken seriously. Straight back GSD's are predominantly working lines and the reputable breeders work test them. A good rule of thumb in working line breeding's is looking to see how far back the bitch lines go without Sch/IPO titles. If grandmother isn't Sch/IPO titled is a good indicator they are making puppies and not breeding trait tested dogs. Unfortunately many working line breeders don't train and work females to determine breed quality.

Anyone noticed entire "black" male Labs for some reason are generally more on the slimmer side?

The breeders of working line dogs need a reason for particular mating's ideally to enhance trait weakness in their base stock and then linebred back onto that. Many simply put dogs together and make puppies creating further trait weakness and degrading breed quality away from the breed standards. A good working line breeder will know the bitch inside out, what her weaknesses are and why a particular sire was selected and how they envisage the litter will produce better than the bitch. :)

What are you after, a pet or working dog, Monsimbee breed both show and working lines by memory? I'm just looking for a family pet! You are best with a showline GSD and there's probably about 50 puppy listings on the main Dogzonline page, most are showline. Best advice is DON'T buy a BYB GSD, a papered pup from reputable breeders experienced in the breed is worth the money IMHO. Working line GSD's can have high drive and are hard to handle in some bloodlines taking dedicated training to mould them into desirable pets.

What are you after, a pet or working dog, Monsimbee breed both show and working lines by memory?

Being a breeder doesn't necessarily mean they are on the level and over the years I have experienced many duck for cover when something goes wrong particularly if a refund or payment for medical costs is looming in supply of a faulty pup. Personally, I think the breeder is best empowered to keep it off a forum by addressing the buyer's concerns in a professional manner and sadly not all breeders are accommodating once the sales transaction is made.

Funny thing is, crims most fear GSD's and Rottweilers who don't need to show any aggression as they are never sure of what training may be on these breeds. Bull breeds need to be aggressive to be taken seriously by crims knowing they are not historically trained for defensive manoeuvre. Bogans with aggressive bull breeds annoy the hell out of me when they could have a stable GSD or Rotty for intimidation in the back yard with a greater margin of public safety. Machoism presented though bull breeds, my default thought is ^%&*head :laugh:

Pure breed Dutch Shepherds can be ANKC registered if their paperwork is ANKC compliant and a lot of dogs competing in KNPV sport are FCI registered dogs, but the Dutch crossbreeds are they typically call KNPV bred Malinois and Dutch Shepherds are not. The two FCI Dutch Shepherds I have come across were chronic yappy barkers in their back yards, not sure if it's a breed characteristic, but the neighbours I doubt would enjoy this pair much in suburbia?

Dutch KNPV bred dogs are crossbreeds consisting mostly of Dutch Shepherd, Malinois, GSD and sometimes guardian breeds used on outcrosses then bred back into herding breeds, so the Chris Jones Dutch Shepherds can't be ANKC registered. Pure bred Dutch Shepherds generally have more drive than a working line GSD but less than a Malinois. Often breeders of cross breed Dutch Shepherds sell them as Malinois when the pups are fawn with black muzzle and the coloured one's in the litter sold as Dutch Shepherds and are usually bigger dogs than pure breed Malinois standards. Some are great working dogs if you don't need typical kennel club registration.

You don't know until the dog bites. The epic failure of a police dog is one albeit trained to bite doesn't bite at it's first live deployment. Realistically, you can have an educated guess that a dog showing strong territorialism is likely to bite to employ extra vigilant management, however a relative calm dog generally good with people, can't really be predicted.

Dogs are pretty good at relieving stress and neutralising anger, anxiety and sadness and they good at causing stress when they are playing up too :laugh:

I would be hard pressed to believe there were not carrying on behind the fence and were more than likely not enjoying the attention from the kids. It's quite possible the victim or friends were teasing the dogs firing them up more.......kids often do that on my side fence albeit there are no gaps for little hands to protrude into my yard for the dogs to make contact, but it's not uncommon for kids to wind up dogs behind fences and think it's good fun.

Many severe dog bites particularly involving children often occur with dogs assumed to be bullet proof causing the dog owner to lack supervision in child/dog interactions and this bullet proof dog suddenly bites out of character usually from a child doing something stupid with the dog. In most cases when a dog is known to be of aggressive tendency, the dog owner is extra vigilant with the dog and human interaction, so in actual fact, less actively aggressive dogs cause biting incidents than the assumed bullet proof dog who bites out of character. The point is, any dog can bite particularly children who don't easily read the body language of a dog that adults read. Would any of us here stick our hand under the fence with a dog showing territorialism? Of course not, but this poor little girl did?

Bidability and high prey drive in combined trait is what gets a dog intense on handler induced prey items and makes the training of handler focus easy through distractions. Dogs high in prey drive for live prey who will barely chase a ball and have little interest in prey item reward for desired behaviours, the prey drive they have is in the wrong place to support a training in drive foundation. Prey drive without bidability is more a training hindrance than an advantage.

Familiarity with human interaction dilutes aggression towards humans, but a dog doesn't have a sensory inhibition to bite because someone is human or a child. Dog aggressive dogs can be fine with a another dog they live with, yet tear a random dog apart given the opportunity, so the dog in this instance may have bitten from either prey drive or territorial aggression albeit a human hand under the fence didn't belong in the dog's territory.