espinay2

Just out of curiosity, who did pay for lunch/provide funding/sponsor the event? It is one of the things I always check when looking at any scientific/scholarly paper etc or any event - who provided the funding. After all, if the findings sponsored by the egg board say eggs are healthy and we should eat lots of them, you need to take that recommendation in context

To be honest, all the breed clubs I have been involved with (including one I was secretary of) would have LOVED to have pet members join and encouraged it no end. It has been a frustrating exercise trying to get them to join, even with lots of activities run with them in mind. The way most breed clubs are set up actively encourages pet members as well as breeder members. Many clubs are also heavily involved in rescue - taking on, rehabbing and rehoming rescue dogs from not only (or rather rarely) registered breeders - mostly the breeders of these dogs are unknown BYB's etc. Most smaller breed clubs (the majority) welcome pet owners on committees and many have them as major committee holders where those pet owners take an interest in actually being a member of a club. Breed clubs rarely have much money and what they do is limited by how many members are willing to help and how much help they give. Maybe it is the clubs in your breed (what breed is it?) that are 'less encouraging', I dont know? Please don't extend you own experences to include what you think all breed clubs do or how their constitutions work. Perhaps if you have some good ideas on how to run the breed club you could join and make the suggestions at their meetings? You have to remember though that breed clubs are set up to promote and support the responsible breeding and ownership of purebred dogs....and as a member you need to be willing to support that or I wouldnt reacommend joining one in the first place.

Breed clubs offer support for their members. Most clubs are small in membership and have an ever smaller number of their members who are actively involved in doing things (sometimes only 2 or 3 people do 99% of the work). Most clubs are desperately crying out for people to become involved and help them do things - they cant do things with out the manpower. the vicious cycle is that without pet members (and ones willing to help out) they cant run events for pet members. Most are flat out running an annual show though many try to run things like grooming days where pet owners can come and learn how to groom their dogs (I know several breed clubs who have run these types of days) or fun days (have run one of them myself and with limited help and lack of interest from pet owners - we widened it to all breeds to get the numbers- we didnt try again even though we would have liked to), taking part in parades and expos (help of pet owners at the pet expos and other info stalls would be greatly welcomed I suspect! Having been involved in quite a few of these I know we welcomed with open arms anyone willing to come along and help out). Truth is, the breed club will run things for pet owners if pet owners are willing to help out organising them and if they have a membership to aim the activities at. There is only so much the members of a club can do, and if they try to run events and dont get the support they often dont try again. Clubs need willing workers, full stop. If you want to see these things happen in a breed club ,then join and help them make it happen.

Ah but globally many jobs still do exist. And many jobs go through cycles when they are more or less popular/important/required. There can be geographical shifts too with the importance in different locations changing. We need to look at the breed globally, not just right here in our own backyard. The genepool is a global one. Perhaps I am more alert to this than some as we have a smaller genepool in my breed so it is imperative to look at more than what is right here in our own country. We have to be very careful of the presumption that we have the right to change things because it doesn't suit us here in this location at this point in time (particularly with a breed that was not developed here and was imported here because they are what they are). What gives us the right to change it? shouldnt we also be talking to those who DO use the dogs - what do they think of these plans? Who is to say when and how we will need those traits? Where will we get them from once we mess with the genepool and don't have them any more? Who is to say what we will need dogs to do in 20, 30, 50 years time? At the moment we have breeds that can adapt to every role we can currently think of. If we mess than that we may be cutting our nose off to spite our face all in the name of a 'more amenable pet'. We need to think further and wider than out own backyard.

The idea of passing all responsibility to petshops intrigues me. From a commercial point of view a 'manufacturer' (puppy farmer in this instance, but it could be a manufacturer of a refrigerator, TV or other 'goods') sells to a retailer at a profit (lets be frank - they wouldnt be in the business unless they did). The retailer (in this case the pet shop) then applies their own profit 'markup' to the the product (in this case the puppy). If the person who buys the product needs to return the goods, they take it to the retailer. The retailer however, can only be out of pocket for the amount of their 'markup' (i.e. goods returned represent a 'no profit/no loss'). Goods are generally returned to or 'dealt with' by the manufacturer who is responsible for the 'warranty' on those goods. Responsibility for the product rests with the manufacturer and the retailer only acts as a 'go-between' for the transaction, perhaps returning money to the buyer and getting the money they paid for the goods from the manufacturer. If the goods are to be 'repaired' or 'replaced' it is the manufacturer that actually does the repairing or replacing, even though it is done through the retailer or 'repair agent'. I therefore can't see pet shops agreeing to take over the warranty responsibilities of puppy farmers and wearing the cost that this might impose (while the puppy farmer still records a profit for that sale). That sort of responsibility can't be shifted and IMO I very much doubt it would stand up either commercially or in court.

Some good websites for those interested in Pyreneans include: The RACP website. This is in French, but is reasonably intuitive. Try using a web translator if you want to read it in more depth. Great Pyrenees Connection which is a good hub for accessing information and websites. The Pyrenean Journal, which has some great historical information and photos. The Great Pyrenees Library homepage which has lots of good information and articles. Good basic 'beginners' books are: "Great Pyrenees: A Complete Pet Owners Manual" by Joan Hustace Walker; and "Great Pyrenees Owner's Manual" by Joseph B Gentzel If anyone is after a more comprehensive book list, please let me know. I have found Pyrs to be generally good with other dogs, but it can depend on personalities. I would not run two entire males together, though most I know personally are happy to be penned side by side and in controlled situations (on lead side by side, in a car, crated side by side etc) have no issue with each other. Too big a risk to put them together though. Bitches can also develop grudges and I have had two Pyr bitches which fought and could never be together. Either side of a fence or even separated by a baby gate they were fine, but the war was on if they were ever in the same room or yard. Being paired with a dog of the opposite sex is generally recommended. Naturally, if a strange dog comes into the yard seemingly 'uninvited' (in their eyes) they will be seen as an unwanted predator so introductions need to be made off territory, and you need to make it clear the dog is accepted by you. Visiting dogs need to be controlled around the Pyrs 'flock' and territory in case they do something that is seen as a threat. If you are bringing a pup into a home with other dogs, this generally works well, particularly if the Pyr is to be desexed. Pyrs can play a bit differently to some other breeds, and this can be frustrating for some dogs. My Dalmatian hated playing with the Pyrs when they got into 'Pyr play' mode as it tends to be full of wrestling, body slams, and lots of mouth and teeth action. A bit like one team playing Rugby while the other is playing AFL!

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) Long time owner, exhibitor and registered breeder. 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? The Pyrenean is an ancient breed with an early ancestral relationship to many other livesock guardian breeds whose use expanded in an area from Tibet to Spain with the spreading of sheep both geographically and in time. It is estimated that the ancestors of the Pyr arrived in the Pyrenees mountains around 3000BC. In 1391, King Charles VI's life was saved by a Pyr and in 1407 the Counts of Bigorre used them to guard the Chateau de Lourdes. The Pyr gained favour in the French royal court when in 1675 the son of King Louis XIV made friends with a Young Pyr and brought it back from the Pyrenees mountains. Despite this the Pyr has also always remained a working dog employed by French mountain shepherds to protect their flocks from bears and wolves. WWI took its toll on the breed with many dogs being killed and the survivors often badly nourished due to rationing. Many were no longer suitable for breeding. Devoted lovers of the breed took the matter in hand and it was then that the current French club, the Reunion des Amateurs de Chiens Pyreneens (RACP) was formed. It was around this time that the first standard for the breed was developed, drawing on the experience of the French mountain farmers and shepherds who played a strong role in ensuring the continuation of the breed as it had existed for many hundreds of years. Hundreds of dogs were examined with the best and most representative being chosen for a breeding program to 'reconstitute' the breed. From this period the breed has developed and spread around with much to be written on the subject. Those wanting more information, or direction to reading material, let me know! I have attached some photos of well known and top winning international dogs of the recent past. 3. How common is it in Australia? The breed is not overly common in Australia with only a handful of dedicated breeders. An average of 50 puppies have been registered per year over the last decade, with a low of 7 puppies being registered in 2005 4. What is the average lifespan? Average age for a Pyrenean in Australia appears to be around 10 year of age, with some occasionally living to around 13. 5. What is the general temperament/personality? Pyrs are a fairly independent breed and take their role as guardian seriously. They are generally a placid dog, confident and protective of its family and good with small creatures they consider 'theirs'. Owners describe them as affectionate, majestic and loveable. Because they are 'hardwired' to patrol large areas they can sometimes be escape artists in an effort to check out their surroundings, so they need good fences and gates to keep them home. Pyreneans were bred to bark to alert predators that they were on duty. This can sometimes be an issue with neighbours, so keeping the dog inside at night is a must. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? They don't need too much exercise, and when young should not be walked for long distances on lead. Exercise while growing should be limited mostly to free play. They enjoy a walk however, and would benefit from a daily trip around the neighobourhood. They should never be let off lead except when in a fully fenced area. There is a saying that an offlead pyr is a 'disapyr'. 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? They can be quite dominant, particularly when young. They need an owner who can cope with a large, strong and wilfull dog and be a strong leader. Their peculiarities as a livestock guardian can be challenging at the best of times. They may not be suited to all first time dog owners. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? As long as they have adequate access and interaction with their 'flock' (whether it be human or otherwise), a Pyr can do well on their own. In a suburban setting, they may take their job as guardian a little too seriously when in the yard on their own and this may require management. Generally their are happiest when they have a 'flock' to care for. 9. How much grooming is required? A correct coat generally requires a good brush about once a week, with more brushing needed when they are shedding their coat (usually one major one a year). They do shed constantly all year round though and owners need to be prepared to have white hair in and on everything. If the coat is not cared for regularly it can become badly matted and difficult to manage. 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? Young dogs can be boisterous, but adults are generally calm and often adjust themselves to the people they are with, being gentle with those that need it. These dogs are often used as therapy dogs and also as mobility assistance dogs. 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? They are generally a healthy breed, but as with many large breeds, bone and joint problems can be a concern. Hips, elbows and patellas can occasionally be affected. Dwarfism is present in the breed, though there have been no cases of this in Australia to date. 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) At an absolute minimum I would recommend asking for hip scores for the parents. Unfortunately the number of Pyreneans being hip scored in Australia does not appear to be large. It will be up to potential owners to come prepared with knowledge and insist.

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) Have owned one Dalmatian who passed away at 13 years of age. Cared for a number of others at various times. Past committee member and Secretary of the Dalmatian Club of the ACT. 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? The origin of the breed is lost in time with depictions of spotted dogs dating back to Egyptian and Mycenaen civilisations. 'Country of Development' is England and this is where they gained their popularity as carriage dogs, accompanying and guarding the horses and carriages on the road and in the stables. 3. How common is it in Australia? The breed is reasonably popular, gaining popularity in the 90's with the release of the '101 Dalmatian' movies. That was a period of hard work for the breed clubs working hard to prevent impulse buying. ANKC registrations in the 90's averaged about 1000 pups per year. Registrations have declined over the last decade and in the last few years have only been about 550 to 600 per year. 4. What is the average lifespan? They can be reasonably long lived with many living to 13 years of age or more. 5. What is the general temperament/personality? A loving and friendly dog which can be a bit of a 'diva' at times. They enjoy the comforts of the couch as much as they enjoy activity. They can be strong willed and love their food, which can be useful for training using positive rewards. They can have a short attention span at times, which has occasionally given them the reputation of being 'ditzy', but given a reason to focus they are incredibly smart and pick things up very quickly. They are well known for their 'smile' which some can mistake for aggression as it looks likethey are baring their teeth. They can also be persistent 'talkers' and tend to tell the world their troubles if they feel they need attention. They are a breed that needs to live close to their owners and be part of the family. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? They are an endurance breed so love to run. They are a great dog to take jogging or bike riding. They have a fairly high energy level and tend to need a reasonable amount of exercise to burn this off. They enjoy sports like Agility. But at the end of the day they will love curling up with you on the couch just as much as going for a run with you. 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? They need a resonably good leader though many first time dog owners could cope depending on the personality of the owner. Training is essential as they can become destructive problem dogs if not given the right guidance. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? They tend to do better with companionship and can become destructive and disruptive if bored. 9. How much grooming is required? Minimal grooming is needed to look after their short coat, though they do tend to shed more than you would expect. the short hairs stick into everything! 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? Yes, they can be a bit too boisterous at times and younger dogs in particular need to be carefully supervised around the young and infirm as they may unintentionally knock them over. That wagging tail can be a hazard too! 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? Deafness is present in Dalmatians. Dalmatians can also be prone to producing uric acid in their urine (a rather unique trait) which can lead to the creating of crystals and stones in the bladder. Males are more prone to this than females. To lessen the effects and reduce uric acid a Dalmatian generally needs a diet lower in purines (a form of protein). Known stone formers need a more modified diet to ensure they do not recur. Both Deafness and Uric acid issues are not as common now fortunately, but are still something breeders need to be aware of and actively work to avoid. 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) The breeder should be asked about deafness in particular - all breeders should check the pups for deafness. The code of ethics of the Dalmatian Clubs require that bilaterally deaf puppies (deaf in both ears) be humanely euthanased. Breeders may or may not BAER test puppies for deafness - it is preferred, but access to testing can be an issue for some. BAER testing can identify if a pup has full hearing is deaf in one ear only (unilateral deafness) or deaf in both (bilateral). Note that some puppies may have 'patches' on their coat. this is a patch of colour which the dog is born with rather than developin later like normal spots. the hair on patches is a slightly different texture. A dog with a patch can not be shown or bred from, but it does not affect its ability as a family pet.

This action is referred to as the 'flemen' response. It helps them process a combination of smell and taste with the Jacobsons Organ which is located on the roof of their mouth.

Some articles that may be useful: Gastric Problems Dogs, Diet and Disease Digestion and Gastric Problems FAQ

Until she does, a link for people wanting to learn more about this and other livestock guardian breeds is www.lgd.org . The library page is particularly useful with lots if great articles. Hopefully Lilli will be here soon :p

They do seem the better 'family sized' dog (more robust than a toy but still small enough for those wanting the smaller size) - I believe that under FCI there are four sizes? Why only 3 here?

Oops! I should not try to write stuff in a hurry - I did mean Mini - OK then, why is it that Minis are less popular?

No other questions here so I will ask one. I must admit that the toy is my favourite size of the poodles (odd coming from a giant breed person :D ). I was surprised at the small number of dogs you quoted as being bred. What factors have led to this, and what influences people to choose the larger sizes over the toy? One more question - has anyone ever chorded a toy poodle coat

after.... (yes, the yellow markings on his coat are meant to be there - that bit won't come out no matter how much I scrub )

I feed raw. After a bath and before a show they don't get big messy bones though - just smaller stuff that can be eaten withiut them wearing it all over them. Alternately I will feed them a bit earlier and bath after they have eaten. I only give a light meal the night before a show most times anyway. I am lucky in that Pyreneans are fairly 'wash and wear' but you still need to watch staining. Doesn't stop them getting a bit muddy sometimes though! Before....

Many of the Pyrenean breeds straddle both France and Spain, even though France tends to claim a number of them. (The Pyrenees Mountains is on both sides of the border). Lots of good photos of the smooth face variety of Pyrenean Shepherd can be found here: RACP website: face rase berger . A comparison between the two breeds is interesting even though we may never truly know the strength of the connection between the two.

Mary Roslin Williams discusses the 'Hailstone' Labrador in her chapter on colour in "Reaching for the Stars: Formerly Advanced Labrador Breeding". To your knowledge has this colour appeared in recent years at all or is it now simply a long gone 'point of interest'?

Another meany here too. I have had a few dog (bitch) fights happen and they are definitely scary things but straight puncture wounds I flush with salt water and/or betadine (on me or the dogs - been stupid enough to get bitten a couple of times myself and it hurts! The shock of it is the worst part though - I agree with the Tim Tam prescription). Vet visit if they are in a sensitive place, big wounds, tears etc, but the vet doesn't do much more than I would do otherwise for simple punctures. I second on the drawing ointment. Horrible looking stuff, but it works. As always though - if you are concerned, off to the vet.

LOL! Forgot to mention that I have also had one dog that used to do what I called 'bliss woofing'. She would find a high spot to look over the property, close her eyes, put her head up and do this steady monotonous WOOF....WOOF.....WOOF....WOOF....WOOF. She obviously got a high from it as well as the satisfaction of letting predators know she was there. ;)

There is always a reason in the dogs eyes. My breed (Pyrenean Mountain Dogs) have been selected over generations to vocalise to warn predators they are on duty and to stay away. It is a hardwired behaviour. In the suburbs this means they can alert to the smallest noises sometimes. Some dogs are worse than others though all will bark to some extent. Citronella collars are often ineffective and they have a high pain threshold. There are ways to manage the barking (e.g. having the dog inside reduces the problem) but stopping a Pyr from barking is like trying to stop the wind from blowing. Stopping them from barking often makes them incredibly anxious and brings its own problems as the dog feels it is not able to do its job. While most cases are manageble, debarking is a definite option which makes life so much happier for the dog, owners and neighbours. The dog can still do its job, just not so loud.

Sounds like ther could be a few trigger factors there which may encourage heavier than normal shedding. Once could be the abnormal weather, another could be (what I presume is) two general anaesthetics in recent months and another could be blowing puppy coat (changing from puppy to 'adult' coat). Either way, hopefully your groomer can help and give you a few tips for keeping things under control. Let us know how it goes!

Yes, they get fish oil and vit E in their diets with extra fish oil when undergoing a coat change to help grow healthy coat. I use plush puppy products mostly and use a rinse with the seabreeze oil after shampooing. I find it helps replace some of the oils, protects the coat and reduces staining. This has to be my favourite product.

How old is she? It is the wrong time of year for a major (spring/summer) shed, unless she has reached that stage when she is blowing all that puppy coat. The first is usually the worst. Other factors can play a role too - is she desexed? Was she done recently? What are you feeding her? How and how often is she being brushed? I agree, a trip to a pro groomer is probably a good idea. Regular (correct) brushing along with regular (maybe monthly) trips to the groomer would be a good way to help reduce shedding. Ask your groomers advice. I have BWF too plus several longhaired cats so know all about the joys of fur in the house! Like Dogbesotted I love my Dyson!

Agree with the comments on the marrow/knuckle bones. They are weightbearing bones and very hard ( they have to hold up a heavy beef steer!) While they are marginally ok whole as the dogs can concentrate on the softer ends, they should never be cut up to expose hard artificial surfaces. Too many dogs break teeth on these hard bones. For teeth cleaning they are not much use anyway as what you want is something that will 'brush' the teeth. To do this they need to be able to sink their teeth into the meat/bone up to the gumline (this is what will abrade the gunk off). This is why they call appropriate bones raw MEATY bones. It is the sinking of the teeth into the meat and softer bone etc that cleans teeth best. Meaty roo tails will be good. Beef brisket is excellent. Whole lamb necks are good (look around for leaner ones or cut the outer layer of fat off) and lamb flaps. Also pork hocks or trotters. The bigger the piece the better as this will require the dog to work more. To help reduce the impact on weight gain, feed them instead of other food - eg replace the chicken or other things in the meal with these. A lamb neck or a piece of brisket can be fed AS the meal rather than in additon to. To stop fighting, feeding dogs in crates can help. Meaty bones like this can take a bit longer to eat, but should be eaten in their entirety. Usually take no longer than 15 minutes, or 1/2 hour if it is a big piece.