espinay2

There are also multiple genes/alelles for white. All whites are not created equal: White Colour Genetics

This is one that has always fascinated me. Hailstone Labradors. I don't know that there has been any in recent years? Mary Roslin Williams Talks about them in her book "Reach for the Stars (Formerly Advanced Labrador Breeding)" and notes that when they appeared they were always good quality Labs.

For some reason it disappeared from the breeders forum? What happened?

To summarise: Being a "puppy mill" while morally abhorrent to most, is not illegal nor a welfare issue in and of itself. The way to fight the existence of puppy mills is not through constant reporting to the RSPCA purely on the ground that they are or could be one. If there is a VERIFIABLE welfare issue involved, then that can be reported. Having messy yard or placing an advertising sign at the front of the property does not constitute a verifiable welfare issue, nor does it necessarily mean the property houses a puppy mill. Reporting for reasons other than a verifiable welfare issue, particularly if reporting more than once with no evidence, can constitute harrasment and may be considered a vexatious act. Reporting in the absence of a verifiable welfare issue does not do anyone any favours, least of all dogs in need. If people want to fight puppy mills in general, there are other ways to go about it. Reporting them to the RSPCA because 'they look like a puppy mill' is definitely not the way to do it as in the absence of a VERIFIABLE WELFARE ISSUE the RSPCA can legally not do anything. I would also caution people to be careful about witch hunts without knowing all facts. Simply driving by is not a way to get all the facts. We don't want to get to a situation (though in some cases unfortunately we may already be there) where owning multiple dogs and/or having a messy yard is a 'reportable crime' or 'morally reprehensible' even if they are doing everything else right (but I drove by their house and that is what I saw......). Yes, fight against puppy mills, but be careful how far the lines are blurred as it may be the responsible breeders on the chopping block too when the blood gets in the eyes of the mob.

One of my favourite puppy books is "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey. I also highly recommend the Dogstardaily website and the e-books "Before you Get your Puppy" and "After you get your Puppy" (available for download from the site)

I can't help on the names of schools, but perhaps call around your local vet clinics and see which ones offer puppy socialisation classes. That may be a good start. They may also be able to give you the name of organisations running training classes locally which you can continue on with from there.

I have to back Poodlefan up on this one. At the age your child is the most important lesson they can learn is to leave the dog alone and the most important thing you can do is supervise and manage all interactions. Separating your child from the pup while it is sleeping or eating will not cause resentment on the dogs part and is a lesson a child needs to learn (and if they kick up a fuss about that, IMO it perhaps shows that they really DO need to learn that those are the rules and that there are times when the pup must be left alone). A pup needs YOU to be the leader and to manage its interactions with others. A young child is not of an age where it can consistently manage its own interactions or read dog body language. YOU have to do that FOR them. Young children tend to 'forget' what they have been told to do or not do in certain situations quite frequently - very very natural at that age. Statistically the biggest proportion of dog bites to children occur in the family home as a result of the 'trusted' family dog. I too encourage you to read up on child safety around dogs and look for starters at the article Poodlefan has posted.

Glad your pup is doing better. A little bit about coccidia in the discussion in this thread that may help you: 'My Poor Puppy' thread Agree that vaccinating a sick pup is not on. I would be very unhappy with a vet for suggesting that. When it comes to your pup eating, make sure you don't hover and stress and try and tempt him to eat. The pup will eat when ready and by hovering etc you may in fact create more stress which means the pup is less inclined to eat. Offer the food for 10 minutes and if the pup doesnt start eating in that time, pick the food up and put it away. you can observe from a distance if you want to keep an eye on things. You can offer food again later in the day if not interested - I would offer three times a day. Don't try and over feed the pup either to 'make up' for the lost weight. That too can result in issues.

Glad to hear Bundy has had the op and is on the road to recovery. The issue with the kneecap is referred to as 'luxating patella' The patella, or kneecap, is part of the stifle joint (knee) on the rear legs of the dog. In patella luxation, the kneecap luxates, or pops out of place. Four grades of medial luxation are used to describe the disorder (dogs with completely normal patellas are not given a grade). Grade 1 is for the dog that usually has a normal condition, but which can be luxated by minor trauma or pushing firmly with the thumb and fingers. In Grade 2, the patella can be manually displaced by adequate finger pressure or can slip out when the leg is fully extended, though it can be pushed back by the owner or a vet. With the next two grades it is difficult (grade 3) or impossible (grade 4) to put the patella back in place. Older dogs with Grades 1 or 2 may seem ok until a sudden onset that may be triggered by trauma or arthritic changes. Dogs with higher grades may display more severe symptoms of pain and lameness (such as bundy had). Treatment is generally by way of surgery. (Note that Patella luxation is a simple condition for breeders to test for as the position of the patella can easily be palpated by a veterinarian. The dog does not need (and in fact should not be) sedated for the test. Patella luxation is considered to be an inherited condition and affected dogs should not be bred. )

Edited as I just saw the results of the autopsy have been added.

Look into puppy preschool/socialisation at your local vet clinics. A lot of the time they will let you bring your children too. A lot of 'puppy kindergarten' classes will let you have your children along so they can learn too (providing you can keep control of them and the puppy as well!) so it doesn't hurt to ask when you are enquiring.

Seems to me all poodlefan was doing was asking a question which required you to examine your feelings for the pup. That is the point of starting the thread isn't it? To examine how you are feeling about the pup? Resentment is a normal emotion. Why are you getting so upset about it? You asked for advice and my advice is to look deeply inside yourself at what motivates your feelings towards your pup - those are the feelings which may be causing the 'lack of bonding'. If that advice upsets you (and I do understand that the natural reaction of people is sometimes to be defensive, as they may not actually want to look too deeply at their own emotions) maybe it is not really 'advice' you are after but some kind of reassurance that it simply will work out fine? In which case, you better change the title of the thread. It may all work out fine, but it may have a better chance of working if you are wiling to do some deep soul searching rather than arcing up when people try to help you look deeper for possible answers to your question.

In my breed 'rescue' is really just breeders helping dogs found in need where they can and nothing is formalised or budgeted. If a breeder can be identified, it is always referred to them first and they are expected to 'step up to the plate' so to speak. So really there is no 'contacting rescue' for us as we are ALL rescue in some way. We do all pretty much help a dog in need if we are the person in the position to help, so in that way I guess if there was a breeder in location and I wasn't and I found out about a dog of mine that needed help, I may potentially call on them in the first instance for 'emergency response'. They would be fully compensated by me for any help they give though. If the dog needed to be desexed or have any other medical expenses then I would cover it. If a rescue organisation helped out for any reason (perhaps they took the dog in before I as the breeder was contacted) I would cover costs plus give a donation. (Note that I would expect them to let me have a say in the welfare of the dog and to take over the dogs care should I consider it appropriate!)

Agree with a lot of what Sandra said. If the owner can keep the dog for the short term, work with them to help find a new home. If they can't, and for some reason you can't get it home (though there is always room for one more here....somehow we would always make room) get the help of friends or even put the dog in a boarding kennel for the short term until you can make other arrangements or place it it a new home. And yes, interstate should be no hindrance. Dogs and pups fly backwards and forwards all the time, including ones that need to be rehomed. (I know one which went as a pup from NSW to WA. When it needed to be rehomed - which was done with the assistance of the breeder - it flew to VIC to its new home.) Rescue may be able to help identify a new home if they have a waiting list, but I would not impose on rescue to deal with a dog I bred unless there was absolutely no way on earth I could do it myself (e.g. in a coma ;-) ).

OH jeez, my information is on there too with someone elses name (no one with pyreneans that is for sure!). Bad enough I noticed they also credit me with breed information I didnt write. I DID try to help them some time ago by providing them with a breed profile after noticing their breed profile said that Pyreneans don't bark among other things (you have GOT to be kidding!!). But what they put up bears absolutely no resemblance to what I provided. I have just written them a nastygram asking them to remove the listing and my name from their breed profile. Lets see if they get it right this time.

Lots of breeders feed a raw diet and have found it beneficial. I run a list at yahoo called 'rawbreeder' which discussed issues and subjects relating to breeding a feeding raw - we have been running for a lot of years and have a lot of members. Personally I wouldnt feed any other way.

If you go to the Breeds section of the website you will find listings for breeders. Your best bet is to contact a few directly, and also any clubs (just google for clubs - remember to spell it LEONBERGER though) as I am not sure how many breeders regularly frequent the forums.

An addition to the ones listed - Olims Hotel in Canberra (on Limestone Ave) is now pet friendly and allows dogs in the rooms.

To put quarantine in perspective - it is really just a 4 week stay in a kennel (something many people do when they go on holidays). And you can visit them while they are there if you like. If you do take them there will be requirements you will need to complete before the dog comes home to Australia. From the US these take about 6 months to do so you have to prepare early if you wish to come home and bring your dog with you. there are LOTS of dogs in New York. It is a resonably dog friendly city depending on where you live. The biggest consideration with taking your dog will be the expense. It will NOT be cheap! Good luck and I agree, if this job is going to be a good move otherwise, I would take it. Even if you can't take the dog it will be with your parents. And you may be able to bring your dog over to you later too if you change your mind and decide you want him there.

A lot of good advice from people here, which I wont repeat. I would like to put forward one thing for consideration though. 'Just breeding pets' is no excuse for not breeding the best example of the breed possible. There is no such thing as 'just a pet'. Owners who just want to enjoy life with a dog as their companion have a right to own a healthy, well bred, excellent example of the breed. They don't deserve second best and they don't deserve a breeder who thinks that because they are 'just breeding pets' they don't need to be as diligent, to do as much research or to take as much care in choosing the dogs they breed. Pets are not second class, and nor are pet owners. And they deserve a breeder who is willing to breed the best dogs they possibly can.

I have a property near Canberra if anyone wants to ferret on it. Reasonably big warren needs to be dispatched. Going to bulldoze, but the offer is there if someone would rather clean it out for me.

Unfortunately many pet owners don't research Tollersowned. They trust what their vets say implicitly. They are the 'trusted experts' after all, and that position holds quite a bit of power.

I must say I am getting more and more annoyed with the direction some vets are going with the surgeries. Of the ones I have heard of (in the last few months quite a few - seems the more I talk about it, the more cases I hear about from people), some are doing x-rays for PennHIP, but telling owners they should get the surgery done 'while the pup is under' at the same time the x-ray is done!! What is the point in that (except it could prove to the puppy owner there was no problem in the first place I guess!!!) More and more I see breeders having to deal with upset puppy owners who are disenchanted that their young pup might be 'defective' (MIGHT! - many of the cases I have heard are 'just in case' types - but I guess that is how the vet would get around a legal suit if scores came back saying there was no problem) and who are shelling out thousands of dollars for what is potentially unnecessary surgery (and in some cases you will never know if it is or not as no scoring of any type is done - remember PennHIP can't be done until 16 weeks) And if no scoring is done, there is no way for a breeder to even know if there is a problem for them to deal with in their breeding program. Seems like it is the latest money making exercise to me. And it has me fuming.

NEVER left a dog at a clinic for an x-ray (or rarely any other procedure) in my life. I am always in the room, and often helping. Boy do I love my vet.

My first question (like some others I see), was where was the surrender documentation? Isn't is a legal requirement for rescue to have a person surrendering a dog sign the dog over to them? Certainly being bullied in this manner is an issue, but without this documentation the rescue organisation/rescuer doesn't have a leg to stand on and could themselves be charged with 'theft' if they withold the dog when a surrendering (or otherwise rightful) owner wants the dog back (at ANY point, even after the dog has been rehomed!).