espinay2

I have already dropped the big hint (i.e. email to other half saying this IS my wish list! )

They are also available here: http://www.naturalpetstore.com.au/p/19/3/grooming/

Ok, I am going to say the obvious and say 'call the breeder'. But why doesnt this work now? In some situations it does and it works well. In some situations the owner doesnt contact them for various reasons - doesnt think to, doesnt feel they can, has lost contact, cant even remember who they bought their dog from (for whatever reason including losing the paperwork), feels embarrassed. In some situations the owner does but the breeder is no help In some wituations it is not possible for various reasons (not purchased directly from the breeder) What can we do to encourage greater contact so that in these types of situations, the dog has somewhere to go or someone to help, even if it is just to help the dog find a new home without resorting to the 'welfare system'. A dog can be rehomed without being 'dumped'. IMO the default should always be to contact the breeder.

I agree with the idea of promoting more pet friendly rentals - perhaps lobbying the Rental Associations etc? Another problem often heard is "my yard is not big enough for my dog". With block sizes shrinking and dogs being required to be confined there are a few things that can be done I think: a. Education on choosing suitable pets for smaller blocks. b. Education that more active dogs can live in smaller yards provided they have suitable stimulation c. Working to improve the ability of people to give that stimulation, for example: * Increase of 'dog friendly' places in neighbourhoods - cafes, parks etc. * Increase of activities in neighbourhoods for dogs - walking groups, community play groups or educational activities within walking distance for locals. * Provision of dog walking services for busy people and/or dogs that need more stimulation or activity. Common in many cities overseas but yet to take off here. I will also mention again the better record keepiing in regard to microchipping and the mandatory inclusion of breeder details, along with data collection on the original source of 'dumped' dogs. Having the data available to help target improvement of education at the point of sale to prevent some dogs ending up in an unsuitable situation to begin with may stop some dogs entering the 'dumpage pipeline'.

Peanut Butter. Rub it in. Great for removing gum or sap from coats. Messy but it generally works. Of course you then have to wash out the peanut butter .

How often you get a groomer to clip them will depend on how much coat care you are prepared to do yourself (and actually do!). As a groomer I used to hate doing the once a year 'shave downs' on little fluffy dogs - usually at this time of year as everyone wanted their dog looking good for Christmas. Generally the dogs were a matted mess as the owners decide they need to be left long for winter, but dont maintin the coat themselves and the coats come off in one piece. Often sores and skin conditions underneath and often owners professed to have 'brushed them regularly' (if so - it was over the top and not the whole coat!). Often the owners also wanted the coat to be left 'fluffy' - which was an impossibility as the only way to do it was to clip off under the felted matts close to the skin. Must be a relief for a dog with a coat like this to not have all those uncomfortable knots and matts pulling on their skin, at least for a little while. If you are prepared to COMB your dogs coat through regularly all over you can get away with clipping less often. I had a few clients who were fantastic like this and their dogs were beautiful (the difference in one dogs coat when he had to be rehomed due to a marriage breakdown and the new owner reverted to the 'once a year shavedown' made me cry when I saw him). If not, then every four to six weeks maximum for most SWF coats. Even in winter. Nothing worse than a matted mess of a coat in winter. If you cut it short in winter they can always wear a dog coat and be aware that if their coat is longer and they wear a coat the rubbing will increase the rate of matt development so you will need to comb more. If you feel up to the challenge then buying a (decent!) set of clippers and doing it yourself can save money in the long run. Remember too that even if you keep the body well combed out that trimming around the eyes, feet and rear should generally be done every few weeks to keep them clean and tidy. Either way, the tradeoff for a non shedding coat is higher levels of coat maintenance either by an owner or a groomer. I always try and emphsise with anyone getting these types of dogs factor this extra time and cost into the equasion when looking at these types of breeds.

Say cheeeese!!!

I personally like: Kennelprefix Feel the Love another one may be: Kennelprefix Pridelands Or how about: Kennelprefix Mother of the Pride

One idea that keeps tossing around half formed in my brain is the idea of a 'pet finder service' offered by Pet stores. It could have several roles (which may be conflicting I guess - as I said half formed) - where the breeder (a) acts as a 'broker' putting the pet buyer in touch with breeders through listings at their store, with the breeder perhaps paying a fee for the listing or a percentage of sales, or alternately (b) they provide a service to owners where they help match them with a suitable pet ('find the right pet for your lifestyle - let us help you etc etc), then provide them with contacts to purchase the pets. Whether the buyer would pay a fee to the pet store for the service, and/or the breeder pays a fee for a listing or referral to them I don't know. I gues wht I am thinking of is a system where the breeder is known and maintains control of the pups, but the pet store acts as a paid 'go between'.

There are a lot of variables. Remember these dogs are bred to protect flocks from wolves and bears. Things that can affect the outcome can include the type and determination of the predators (as well as the number of predators) and the age and experience of the LGD. Many predators won't stick around with a LGD on duty. They move on to easier pickings. It is not that often that a real confrontation takes place. It is not uncommon for one LGD to see off multiple predators though with higher predator loads more than one LGD is usually recommended. I wouldnt usually call two dogs a high predator load though I wouldn't probably let a pup or young inexperienced dog deal with them alone. To answer your original question though, a Pyr is bred to bark a warning. They often bark to warn predators they are on duty, and they will bark a warning that predators are about. You soon learn to tell the difference between 'Just letting you know I am here and on duty', 'I know there is something moving about out there and it better keep away if it knows what is good for it' (most predators BTW do know what is good for it and dont bother further) and 'Danger will Robinson! We are circling the wagons!' (rare in most cases) and can respond accordingly.

I cant speak for other breeds but the Maremma is brilliant. Thye are not aggressive at all and they accept what ever and whomever you accept. Remember Ive got 8 kids and Ive had Maremmas for almost 20 years - thats given them a fair work out. Ive had them in paddocks with up to 500 sheep and in my lounge room. We only have a small flock now and the paddock dogs and the sheep come in and out of the house yard to act as lawnmowers occassionally without missing a beat and still sit at the kds feet and lap up any affection they can grab. ive a bitch that was put with the sheep when she was 6 weeks old. When she is in whelp and about a week to go I bring her in and bath her and introduce her to her whelping box. She sits for 2 days with her back to me and would go back to th elambs if I let her. Within the 2 days you would never know the difference between her and the one thats been inside all her life. She allows the kids to help her whelp and doesnt batter an eyelid as the visitors come and go around her .She's never been house trained but she would blow up before she went to the toot in the house. If I let her near the lambs I have to bind her tummy because she stands and lets the lambs feed from her. Lots of breeders allow them to whelp right in the middle of the flock and lambs and pups are usually born in the same week or they give them a barn where they can come and go and never miss a day's work. Mine get maternity leave. I like em close to me and to be handled as much as possible because even though you want a good working dog you also dont want one that you have to worry about with the kids or that you cant handle. They go to work at 6 to 8 weeks. The last champion I bred works with goats all week and is gentle and fantasic with the adults and kids and has never lost one to predators. He came out of the paddock each week end - had a bath and ran around the show ring with out missing a beat. As pets - they are perfect and I love them so much I cant ever imagine not having them live with me. Ditto for the Pyreneans. They are bred to live with the flock and the shepherd in the high mountains in summer and spend their winters on the farms in the valleys. Generally though they will not kill anything unless it makes a stand. Not killing does not mean they are not highly effective - predators soon learn to keep a distance! They are in fact more effective because they dont kill (and it is not good for such a valuable asset as a LGD to be risking injury in a fight). It is not about 'agression' either but the instinct to protect and guard.

To the unititiated they can be quite similar. Pyrs are generally larger, ear set and eye shape generally different. Pyrs have a low ear set, close in to the head, Maremma's are generally set a bit higher. Eyes on a Pyr are more almond or 'angulated' than the Maremma as a rule. Some lines of Pyrs are heavier looking, though many of the European line dogs being introduced to the country now (rightly) have more in common type-wise with the Maremma than the Newf which is how it has been in the past here. Pyreneans have double dew claws on the hind legs. Pyrs can be all white or marked (sometimes lightly, sometimes a bit darker - in colours such as wolf grey, lemon or badger) generally on the head with occasionally some spots on the body. Maremmano are only all white. Pyrs have a repuation for being more 'social' and not quite as sharp. this can be line specific though as again many of the European linesseem to have a stronger 'work ethic' and more of whatis often referred to as 'primitiveness' while still being good working around people. Pyrs are generally held to be one of the more people oriented of the LGD's while still maintaining good working ability.

A few more resources for you: LGD.org is a fantastic resource for information on LGD breeds. Visit the Library page for lots of info on a range of relevant topics. On the website you will also find a link to the LGD-L email list on which you can find a lot of knowledgable people from around the world with a variety of LGD breeds. An excellent book worth getting a copy of if you are interested in working LGD's is "Livestock Protection Dogs: Selection Care and Training' by Orysia Dawydiak and David Sims. One of the best resources out there IMO and a must for anyone considering working LGD's Pyrenean Mountain Dogs are another LGD breed. Not as popular here in that role for a number of reasons (early experience with backyard breeders and awareness as a result of what happened with Maremmas in this regard which have resulted in most breeders being very selective and sometimes not open to placing them in this role). A full sister to my 'Grace' is a working LGD (along with another half sibling) and very successful at it from all reports. For general interest here is a link to video of Pyrs at work in the French Pyrenees. It is in French, but even if you don't speak it it is well worth watching: I agree Andrea is a great person to contact. I have directed people to her for older LGD's on more than one occasion.

Aimfor Last Post Aimfor Rising Sun (that is what the Army badge is called - was and still is worn by Aust soldiers) (call name 'Digger' ;-) ) Aimfor Armistice (I personally like this one - Rememberance day is also known as Armistice Day as that is the day it is held on) Aimfor Valiant Fields ('O'Valiant Fields' is often played during ceremonies on the day) Aimfor Flanders Fields (call name 'Poppy' :-) ) Aimfor Badge of Honour Aimfor Roll of Honour Aimfor Remembrance (call name 'Rosemary' :-) )

Took a trip down to Sunbury last week and very happy with the (somewhat unexpected) results 17 Pyrenean Mountain Dogs shown under breed specialist Mr Gunnar Jensen from Norway (Beachbears Pyreneans) Bitch Challenge & BOB 'Rocket' Despreaux Mon Ice Bebe (bred and owned by Faye Cartledge) - From the Minor Puppy class! This was her first show out of baby puppy (not bad to get an 18 point challenge the first time you are eligible!). IMO this gorgeous girl has a big future ahead of her and fantastic that it is being recognised so young. Rocket is by Faye's Belgian import, the beautiful Grimm du Mas de Beauvoisin, from a litter sister to my boy Hamish (out of two imports from Laugtun's in Norway). Big congratualtions to Faye. Reserve Bitch Challenge and RUBOB was my girl 'Grace' Ch Despreaux Amazing Grace from the Intermediate class. Dog Challenge was my boy 'Hamish' Ch Despreaux Highlander - from Open Dog. So happy with my two and have to thank everyone who helped me out on the day as I tore a ligament in my knee the day before and had enough trouble walking let alone running. And again a big thank you to Faye for breeding such lovely dogs. Also congratulations to Vivienne James whose Norwegian import Strondafjorden's Chantec took Reserve Dog Challenge also from the Minor Puppy class.

Thought not I lawyer part of my job is to actually draft and interpret legislation. What you have been told is right. The answer to your question can depend on context and the specific legislation being referred to. Definitions can be legislation specific and what it means in one document can have a different meaning in another. And a dictionary definition is rarely relevant. Without specifics any answer given may be at best, very general and at worst dangerous and misleading. If you want a more specific opinion on the law than you have already been given without revealing case details, IMO your best, and safest, option is to talk directly to a lawyer.

Good for you Beckley. Sounds to me like you have the strength, stamina and willingness to learn to give this a good go. So glad you stuck around. Take a look at the breeders forum here too. Lots of breeding specific threads you can read through on a wide range of topics.

Responsible breeders already make this claim frequently. Initially? Greater visibility of where the dogs are coming from. Basically the ability to track a product back to its source. Assistance with 'crisis care' or rehoming or even the ability to take the dog back are perhaps things to be considered though as mentioned previously, I would be wary of how or even if this was enforced. I understand that some rescue organisations currently dont even allow the breeder that type of role even if they want it. As for putting their own dogs down to make room, IMO a bit of a reactionary emotive response? I doubt anyone would even consider that even close to being on the board. The issue of what options there are in relation to a dog that someone has bred that needs care when you can't have them at your home for some reason has been discussed before - there is at least one reasonably recent thread in the breeders forum. I can't see this being any more of an issue for responsible breeders than it is now though as they generally have this covered already. More of a problem for mass producers if their dogs re turning up frequently and creating a burden for rescue organisations. Yes, owners are responsible. No one is denying that at all. And perhaps therefore there should be more done about those turning the dogs over to rescue or dumping them in the first place? Perhaps you have some views on how that can be achieved. The brief here however, is about the breeders and breeders have a responsibility too. Who they sell the dogs to in the first place for example. Visibility of where the dogs end up and where they are from may help put pressure to improve screening at the other end of the pipeline. For example, while a person may be responsible for the amount of alcohol they consume (and holds the ultimate responsibility for their own actions), a licenced publican is also responsible if they continue to sell to a person who is inebriated (or to a minor). They hold responsibility for the decision they make at the point of sale and the consequenses of that decision. This is the sort of concept I am suggesting in regards to 'moral accountability'. Good for you. No doubt you screen your buyers well and have a system in place to minimise issues down the track. But if one did end up in the pound for some wild unknown reason (who knows - all the family killed in a car crash for example - wild conjecture here), are you positive you would know about it? Are your details still on all your dogs microchip records? How would someone get in touch with you if the owners didn't? Would you want to know happened to the dog? That is right - and it is the breeders responsibility to ensure that the person they sell the dog to will - to the best of their knowledge - be a responsible owner. I think we are.

In a way, I think you've hit the nail right on the head. This is a good long-term solution. Tell me though, what do you think the breeders should be obligated to do if it's found 50% of their puppies are dumped? Do you think they should be shut down, or simply asked to control their practices more? I am interested as to how far you think this should go. To be honest, I don't know the answer on how it should be controlled. Having the information on where the problem is actually coming from though allows a more targetted response. Responsible breeders already pride themselves on having an interest in the dogs they breed 'for the life of the dog' - you hear this promoted all the time and I will presume in most cases it is more than just lip service (it is at least with me and with those I know personally). Careful placement can limit the opportunity for dogs turning up in a bad situation. No one can guarantee 100% success though, though there are those that may possibly achieve it. Those that screen well however, are also those who usually take on some form of responsibility if something goes wrong down the track. I would hate to see any kind of penalty in place for a 'one off' type situation where the breeder was willing to take responsibility for the dog and would have done anyway (as soon as they are notified of the situation courtesy of that microchip). If a large number of dogs from one breeder are turning up over time requiring assistance from rescue organisations however, that is a flashing red light. Certainly there is responsibility from the owner in this type of situation. Though how you would place this responsibility on owners at the 'back end' of the deal when they are getting rid of the dog I don't know (apart from enforcement of current welfare laws and regulations which wont cover all or even most situations). The place to do it is really up front when they get the dog...which brings us back to the breeder. There are examples available of situations where a seller is held responsible for who they sell goods to and where they end up. Not refrigerators I will admit, but seller responsibility is not a new thing altogether. What form that could take for dogs, I don't know. But perhaps if at the very least breeders are 'made aware' of where the dogs they breed end up and this data is available more widely in some form (privacy restrictions considered) there may be leverage to start 'cleaning things up' a bit more at the front end when it comes to the wholesale and/or indiscriminate sale of dogs? JMHO and musings...

To me, if we can do one thing only to start with, I would have to agree that improving record keeping will be of the biggest assistance. Mandatory microchipping/permanent identification of pups by breeders nationwide and the breeders details staying on the dogs records. Information collected on where 'dumped' dogs are coming from. Then at some point once this is up and running and being enforced, establishing protocols for accountability by breeders for those dogs they produce. I will note that realisticall despite even the most careful screening of puppy buyers by breeders, some will always slip through the net somewhere regardless of how good breeders are. Certainly good screening will reduce the chance of this occurring and this is where responsible breeders excel but what is important also is what a breeder does when one does slip through the net (or more importantly when the breeder does not have a net in the first place). In a nutshell and put rather crudely - establish a system where breeders are obligated to clean up their own messes.

At the moment I am beginning a foray into purebred sheep breeding and am experiencing (again) what it is like to be the new kid on the block with all the silly and stupid questions. Yes, I have owned sheep before, but no I haven't bred them before or owned purebred registered sheep until now. See any correlation here? I feel stupid and unsure of myself , but willing to learn, and I darn sure wouldnt be sticking around anywhere if I got a reception like I see here often to one of my 'newbie' questions. I just hope that purebred sheep people turn out to be a helpful lot willing to help out a person who right at the moment likely doesn't use the right words, parrot the right phrases or have much of a clue.

Hear hear fifi. Can I just add, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I think we all need to think on that for a while as this forum often has a mob mentality with anyone new who dares to mention the B word. Everyone has to start somewhere. As for reading but not posting, perhaps they were waiting for more replies to be posted, or had to think a bit before giving the answers or didnt have time right then to make a detailed reply.....or just didnt want to. The point is, we dont know and we probably wont know because there has been too much conjecture flying around on this thread with conclusions well and truly jumped to. I invite the OP to PM me directly if they wish. Happy to help them with more info if they are keen to learn.

Eek, yes, warning bells there. I would tell them she will be desexed first too. and/or perhaps tell them the other option is to wait and get to know you more and maybe get a pup from a later litter on co-ownership on the main register 'if they are serious about breeding'.

I think the informational replies posted so far have been useful and if the OP hasn't been scared off will be a great place to start a conversation with them. It is often the speculatory chit chat that doesn't actually answer the original question I think that can scare a person off. Perhaps if we all try to limit posts to ones that actually answer the questions of newbies it may help? To the OP, there are people here more than willing to help you with information. Another resource for you is the website Learn to Breed but I too would recommend the MDBA course. In relation to getting the advice of the dogs breeder, yes, this can be a good place to start and having a breeder mentor in the beginning can be helpful. We don't knowv at this point if the OP has done this yet or not, but I would suggest if they haven't that would be a good move as a breeder generally has (or should have) a good understanding of their lines and what is behind them and can help with information and guidance which will help in making decisions. It may be that the dog you have is not the best match for the bitch and they can suggest another better option.

Give them a break folks, they are here to learn. I don't read anything in their OP that leads me to beleive otherwise.