espinay2

Agree. There's a sign to that effect on the gates at my dog club. Can definitely cause resource guarding dust ups. She had her point but certainly didn't win you over expressing it. However if her dog couldn't be let off lead, why did it need to be in the fenced area? I'm afraid I do not agree. If your dogs are aggressive or potentially troublesome, they need to be under your control (ie NOT approach other dogs) or on a lead or not in a dog area at all. I did not have the intention of letting my dog run wild with other dogs she doesn't know in a confined area. I believe I should be allowed to use toys, food and tugs to train and play with my dog and not have other dogs pester us, or try to join in. My dog is not a resource guarder but even if she was, I believe it is the other owners fault for letting their dog approach another obviously training or pretty into playing with their ball/toy. Why should my dog be put out just because others can't control theirs? Anyway if she was agggressive or a rescourse guarder, then no way would I bring her to an enclosed dog area and bring her toys. Thie issue is though IMO you dont know if the other dogs in the area were resource guarders who would covet your dogs toy and you don't know how much control over their dogs the other people in the area had. While it may be well and good to say what they 'should' be doing, it is a bit like driving - all people in control of a car should be obeying the road rules. However, we know they don't so we drive in a defensive manner to protect ourselves. No use driving through the green light if you can see that the person coming the other way is possibly going to run the red light. I would rather apply my brakes and be safe rather than possibly get hit knowing I was in the right. IMO while the other people in the area were not totally in the right and handled the situation badly (as poodlefan mentioned so seem to have come across one of those self appointed folk who like to tell everybody the 'rules'), there were things on the part of both parties that could IMO have been done better and would have improved the situation. As mentioned by Poodlefan, asking before entering a fenced area where dogs are free running if you can bring your dog in is a good move. If they say no, there may be a reason. Ask them how long they will be as you would like to do some training and warmup with your dog before class. Or just move to another area if one is available.

As for many less numeric breeds many of the BOB's are 6 pointers I am not sure that this is the solution. Cost can be prohibitive for some. Late last year myself and another breeder took three dogs and a couple of puppies to Melbourne to compete under a breed specialist (yes, we did very well thank you). The cost just to hire the van for the weekend to transport us, our gear and our dogs was over a thousand dollars. That is not an expense I can go to very often and I don't think people should be looked down upon if their budget doesnt stretch to frequent interstate trips. There are a lot that have to travel a lot further than we do too. (No use me going to Sydney either BTW if you think that would be closer for me to attend those metro shows - we would still be the only ones of my breed there. I go to Sydney if there is a judge I am interested in just as I go to any other show - not because it is 'metro'). Remember too that for many breeds, we don't have the same sort of system as you do with GSD's when it comes to specialty shows. In my breed while there may be some breed shows run annually in other states, most are not specialty shows as we simply dont have the judges. The judges are the same one you get at other shows (for example - there is a breed show coming up in SA that I guess I could enter. However, the judge, who is not a breed specialist, is one from my local area here who we see at shows all the time - showing at those same country shows ). I would and do travel for international specialist judges or even an international judge that was half way familiar with my breed. Unfortunately there has only been one international breed specialist that I am aware of in this country in about the last 10 years! I have seen and heard of this on more than one occasion. I am Group 6 so most of the examples I have seen or heard of have been in this group. They have been at both country and minor metro shows and at Royals. IMO this is more an issue with judges training in and understanding of structure and movement than an issue with the system of awarding challenges and titles.

I don't know about other regions, but this region for one can have very strong competition across the breeds at country shows. I am talking quality even if the numbers may be a little less than at some big city metro shows. I honestly dont think the 'country versus city' thing is overly relevant these days. Agree with comments from folks with rarer breeds. It can be frustrating some times when the only way to get competition at breed level is to bring your own. With big dogs such as mine it can be a challenge to prepare and show more than a couple at a time and a champion may be made up of 6 and 7 pointers. Still, it hasn't stopped our breed winning at the in Group and in Show level. Yes, we try and travel interstate if possible to compete against others in the breed and have done well. As mentioned though, the logistics of such a trip with large dogs takes planning so once or twice a year is all we usually manage. Frankly, sometimes not having competition in the breed can get frustrating and has its own issues. But our dogs have still earned their titles fairly and squarely and I for one don't appreciate them being brushed off as 'cheaply won' just because a breed happens to be less numeric. Note you will also rarley find any of my breed in need of rescue so if breeders are trading on their 'cheap champions' it certainly isn't showing up there.

If a rescue is one of my breeds, then to me they are more special and I will allocate my resources accordingly. I am not saying any one dog is intrinsically worth more in the eyes of God/The Universe/Whatever but in the face of finite resources, you have to prioritise it the way you see fit. This being a pure breed forum, I guess others see things the same way. Agreed. If this were my breed, we would want to know and would be all over it as soon as we did. Am glad that the Berner folks have now been alerted and can deal with it. Big fluffies like Berners and Pyrs are not backyard bred in big numbers and that is largely due to that fact that breeders and others who love the breed are proactive and MAKE every individual of the breed they love special. And we want to keep it that way - not throw up our hands and say 'it is just one dog of many - why bother'. That attitude gets you nowhere. There may be thousands of dogs out there but at least we can make an effort in the breeds we love to see they dont go the same way by responding quickly when situations such as this arise. Well done guys.

I recently crate trained an 11 year old dog. And house trained him too. Until he came to live with us he hadn't set a foot inside let alone in a crate. While he is not crated at night now (and is only crated to be fed or odd other times), he still chooses to sleep in his crate with the door open. It is his bed after all ;) I often have dogs loose while others are crated. Youngsters are always crated until they can be trusted, while older dogs have free range. The older dog above was also crated while others had free range.

I am with you on this one Poodlefan. Yes, he loved his dog. Yes, I blubbered at the end of the movie (I saw it before I read the book so didnt know what was coming!). Tried to read the book, but it drove me nuts. IMO this was not an untrainable 'stupid' dog but a dog (likely a high energy, smart working dog) that was not given what it needed (and probably an owner who was not given what they needed by that trainer in the way of assistance and advice either - the idea of 'banning' someone from a class actually makes me see red - how is that helping the dog and the owner who probably need the most help of all?)

Was meant to be going, but through a chain of events am now not I know quite a lot of people from all around the world (including here) that are going to be there - I have a French breed after all so it is quite a big deal for us this year. To say I am a little down and envious at the moment is an understatement! I am very much looking forward to hearing reports and seeing photos/video though.

The sad thing is that some of 'us' are! Until we realise that and change attitude nothing will change - or perhaps the divide will widen. well i got told by one woman after i told her no such thing as a "pomchi" to shove my dog (with my head) up my bottom so it not true that the public only think its our heads we have up our bottoms. I heard a similar story from someone recently who was encouraged to go to a dog show to talk to breeders when looking for a dog. Excitedly she did this. Chatting to a breeder of a breed she was interested in she mentioned in conversation that her sister had a 'maltishit' or some such cross. Reaction was apparently swift and denigrating from the breeder. that person walked out of that dog show without talking to another person. she was mortified and vowed that if that was the attitude she would not be looking at a purebred dog. Breeders and purebred dog owners need to realise that many people have crossbred pets they love and adore. While we certainly may hold views on that, leaping to immediately denigrate something they love (which is the way it is often viewed) does not favours to the purebred dog community. The person I mention above could have made a good addition to the purebred dog pet owner world. They could have been responsible for others doing the same (including her sister for future dogs). Instead they are gone and will never come back. Short term 'corrections' sometimes serve no purpose other than turning them off where letting it slide and working on positive education (that takes more than a sentence and starts with a conversation) can in many cases have a bigger effect in the long term. Now I will admit to being a bit quick off the mark with the throw away lines and corrections myself at times. But lately taking note of the effect that this can have on some otherwise would be purebred dog owners, I know for my own part I will be doing my best to suck it in and do more positive talking. Every single one of us is a walking PR machine. How we conduct ourselves has an impact. I recommend we all take note of what we say and how we go about promoting purebred dogs as it all adds up in the bigger campaign. And frankly I think to a large extent we have been for a while our own worst enemy.

The deal is done. Now is the time for positive education. Give her the tools to learn how to care for the dog and point her with a positive helping attitude (sharing in her excitement) in the right direction. In time she may come to see for herself that it wasn't the best way to do things and it will change the way she does things in future. Telling her now what mistakes she made - particularly when she is so excited about her new dog - will only come across badly no matter how good the intentions.

Depends how you define 'poor'. Money doesnt guarantee that a dog will have a good life (and I have seen enough 'rich family' dogs to know that a family having money doesnt guarantee a dog will be well cared for). And people can be poor in funds but have a rich, full and fulfilled life. Some of the richest people I have known are the ones with the least money. As mentioned it can be all about priorities too. We dont own a big flat screen TV. You have no idea how many people comment on our old big but faithful TV we were given for free when our older big but faithful decided to give up and go to TV heaven. What is the big deal? It has a good picture and plays the same shows. In our case we could afford a new big fancy TV is we wanted one....but we dont need it. We would much rather spend the money on something else. One of our higher priorities just happens to be our animals. They give us far more entertainment than a new TV would. I have lived through some tougher times in the past too. It didnt even cross my mind not to make the dogs a priority. In those tougher times they were in fact one of the only things that kept me going. And many people dont know how to spend to save. As mentioned - baked beans and bread can be an expensive way to eat. You can eat very well and very healthily for the same amount you would spend on a weeks worth of baked beans and bread. And dogs can eat and live well on a small budget too (not talking medical emergencies here which can be unpredictable no matter how prepared we think we are). But it is a skill that less and less people are learning these days. Naturally, I agree that you do need to be in a stable position before taking on the responsibility of a pet - but 'stable' and financially well off are not the same thing.

Wolf Whistle Wolf Call (this is an Elvis song from his movie 'Girl Happy .... "don't tell me you don't fall, for the Wolf Call...." ;) )

Speaking to Stewart Mason at Monash, he suggested that Charles Sturt Uni in Wagga Wagga are on their way to developing hands on in addition to their apparently extensive theoretical repro expertise with dogs - contact the Vet School though, not their clinic. They were his pick for repro assistance in NSW.

Again - define the behaviours that YOU consider to be 'unprovoked aggression' - what does this behaviour look like? I htink we talk about it a lot, but I think for a lot of people what agression actually is is something that, when pushed, they can not define. So lets define it.

As I said at the beginning though - define aggression!!! In our society it seems that even if a dog meets a stranger at the gate and barks at them it can be defined as aggression. So what parameters are you putting on it? What behaviours are ok and what are not ok? EXACTLY what behaviours dont you want breeders selecting for here in Australia?

Yes, I did say it was (past tense) considered (as in thought of as such by the people of the time - whatever the correctness of their thoughts) an 'agressive breed' (as in a breed that showed aggression that was by them considered 'over the norm' - in this case as a 'sheep killer'). I can't see anything in that statement that is incorrect or ignorant. If you can, I would be happy for you to show me where and how.

Agree. I would much rather have some kind of organisation that would provide support and lobby for my interests rather than another registry.

Gee - how much ice cream would they need to consume for that to be a problem? Considering my dogs eat a raw diet ( + Black Hawk a couple of times a week) they are getting plenty of good nutritional value. :D Yes, considering my dogs eat a raw diet, have beautiful healthy mouths and have never needed teeth cleaning I don't think the odd bit of ice cream is going to hurt one bit

Might be an idea if you checked your facts first before making this Ignorant statement. Whats so ignorant about bringing to peoples attention the futile banning of the importation of the GSD based on incorrect fear based assumptions? Ok so the ban actually ENDED in the 70's. And the main fear was that crossed with a Dingo it would create a sheep killing super dog. But it still stands as an example of something I would not like to see in this country again when it comes to jumping to conclusions about dog breeds and agression. Might be an idea if you read the thread again.....

Not commenting on the right or wrong of your encounter, but yes my dogs do get ice cream :D . When out we sometimes will buy them their own when we get one for ourselves (usually we buy them plain vanilla) or they will get a spoonful at home. My OH had a bit of a ritual with our old (now departed) girl Milou. Those two would sneak off to the kitchen while he got ice cream. As he was dishing it out he would say 'oops!' and drop a scoop on the kitchen floor for her to eat :rolleyes: . When he came along puppy Hamish would follow them out and discovered the joys of ice cream too. The word for ice cream in our house is now as a result 'Oops' as that is what he came to know it as All the other dogs of course now know the term too ;)

Here's a video (top one) http://www.russiando...ideo/guard-dogs And yet, I know someone in New York City with a CO which was a very effective Service Dog (until its retirement due to age and its own mobility issues). The dog is a certified Mobility and Psychological Support Dog.

While Mogens goes to one end of the bell curve with how he feeds, the information on the digestive system etc is basically sound and a good introduction on the differences for those not familiar. The 'fast and gorge' method is often used to feed wolf packs in captivity - particularly when feeding whole carcass as it best emulates what would happen naturally. Diet is not just about feeding but about mental stimulation and social dynamic. Much of a dog/wolfs existence in the wild is related to eating and reproduction (i.e. survival). In captivity these things are taken care of for them but what then does a dog/wolf do to pass the time? Making their diet once again part of their environmental enrichment (though certainly not to the extent it would have been in the wild!) is one method to help bring interest and meaning and variation into their lives. Some people do use the method for dogs to a greater or lesser extent. While some of what Mogens does and recommends is not for everyone, or even most, the thing to take away from it IMO is that a strict diet of the same amount every day at the same time is not the only way to feed and may not necessarily provide a dog with everything it 'needs' from its food (not only talking nutrition here). My own dogs, for example, rarely get the same amount of food every day - sometimes it will be a small meal and sometimes a large one. I don't religiously fast, though will not panic if my dogs have to miss a meal for some reason occasionally or only get a snack instead. Feeding this way though takes a slightly different mindset and is easier to do if you are feeding a natural diet with a variety of foods. It does take an ability to really see your dogs condition and make monitoring it a regular habit. More on my own philosophy here: http://www.espinay.com/feedingourdogs.cfm

Agree - discuss the situation with the supervisor. Make a diary of all the events and any conversations (including any directions you give to the cleaner about not coming without informing you first and not coming through the yard etc) too so you have a record. Advise the supervisor that you are uncomfortable with this person in your home and why, and see if something can be worked out. Make a record of the discussion with the supervisor too.

This topic also brings to mind the ban on importation to Australia of GSD's in the 70's etc because it was considered an 'aggressive breed'.

Playing devils advocate here - in what situation? Suppose the dog was protecting a flock of sheep and a neighbourhood dog out on a walk with its owner entered the paddock to chase the sheep and was injured by it. The neighbours dog could be shot (dead) in these same circumstances, so being injured while "trespassing" is probably the lesser of two evils. I have no time for people who believe no dog should ever under any provocation be allowed to defend itself or it's "pack", dogs are dogs not little furry pacifists - even the so called "nice" breeds have the same instincts for self preservation. That is exactly right and where the danger is in banning 'agressive dogs' or 'agressive breeds' - First you have to define agression. Take that same dog and put it in a suburban situation where it lives with the family rabbit and cat. The neighbours terrier digs under the fence to get to the rabbit and is injured or killed. Is the dog 'agressive'? In the situation I describe above being injured is certainly the 'lesser of two evils' for the insitgator. Ban 'dog agression' though and the dog doing the guarding is suddenly not just doing its job, but is a 'monster' as it attacked another dog. Most aggression tends to happen in two main places - in the family home/property or when the dog is roaming loose and unsupervised. The second situation may be more clear cut as there is a clear human 'duty of care' factor when it comes to containment and dogs roaming. Dogs injuring another dog or human on their own property however becomes quite murky as there are so many factors and triggers and situations. Is it HA to attack a burglar breaking into your house at night? What about the ambulance driver trying to get into the house to attend an emergency call? Is it HA for a dog to guard your children from unwanted strangers? What about the unfamiliar out of town uncle that is visiting and swoops to pick up your child and give them a bear hug? Is the dog that is cornered by the child and snaps at it HA after it has been chased all over the yard for 'pat the nice doggy' despite its warnings that it is not happy? (you know - the dog that 'just attacked out of the blue for no reason') Would it make a difference if this dog was a GSD, a JRT a Border Collie or a Staffy? Edited to add - this thread here brings a good case in point: Is this dog HA? It is afterall a breed that is according to its standard a 'fearless and bold' working terrier?

Playing devils advocate here - in what situation? Suppose the dog was protecting a flock of sheep and a neighbourhood dog out on a walk with its owner entered the paddock to chase the sheep and was injured by it.