espinay2

Yes, she has received some good replies, but frankly I am not surprised she lashed out based on some of the judging replies to her innocent request for information (which seems to be a common thing on this forum at times on a range of topics). Remember I posted here too, so I am supposedly encompassed in that 'all'. I know though not to take it to heart. IMO there is room for a range of viewpoints and the key is RESPECT for those that may hold differing opinions even if they are ones you would never hold yourself. If a breeder doesn't like how someone is going to raise a pup it they don't have to sell a puppy to them. It is as easy as that. PLENTY of prospective homes are given a no because philosophies on how a pup will be raised differ and this is not something new. Though personally I think there are a lot worse homes a pup could end up in based on the info the OP has provided. (and FWIW before anyone decides to call me a puppy killer I DO vaccinate - but having been involved and around the NR philosophy for many many years I respect those that take a different path to me) Debate is good. Judgemental confrontation is not. We see enough of that in this world. The OP has now recieved assistance and advice from some privately, so yes, I doubt she will be back. JMOHP

Maybe give yours. That way she knows not to contact you

I believe it is constructive to advise her that what she is looking for does not exist to save her looking any further. The dog world is a very small place and all the reputable breeders know about each other, so I can assure her that she will not find a repuatable breeder of BCs that would supply a puppy as requested. So if she wants a healthy BC she will have to compromise on something. YES! Then THIS is the advice she needs. NOT a bashing from those that may personally disagree with her choices.. Perhaps someone can direct her here or privately to breeders who have views that lean towards more natural rearing (such as raw feeding and/or more minimal vacc protocols), even if they don't do 100% NR?

Hi Stef, In Australia you may be hard pressed to find a breeder that is 100% NR (I beleive there are some - yes well known long time kennels too - but none that I know of with border collies). In the US yes, but not here (and no use importing as they will need to be vaccinated to get here). You will get those that come close, but may have to accept a pup that has had initial vaccinations. You are welcome to join my email list rawbreeder at Yahoogroups and post the question. There may be someone there who is or knows someone. Or perhaps try the Au Natural K9s list Folks, how about we stick to constructive stuff. The OP has made her own choices based on her own research and that needs to be respected.

If it comes from a cow (steer, whatever you get the drift), then it is a good cut of beef to feed ;) Otherwise, price and how lean you want it to be for a particular dog would dictate what you feed in any given situation.

Goat milk is great I have a local guy I can get it off. He just puts a sign out on the road when he has it available. I save milk bottles so I can buy and freeze. Yep, fresh is best if you can get it!

I thought some folk may be interested in this video. It very well explains how livestock guardian dogs act and how to act around them While this is based on working dogs, it also goes a long way to explaining their behavioural traits as 'pets' too.

It can depend on the cause. Some it doesn't matter that there is another dog there (I have had a rescue like that). Sometimes the other dog will pick up on their anxiety (I had a dog who was storm phobic and some of the other dogs would also react when she did. After she died, they became a LOT more settled during storms) Perhhps a foster dog as some have suggested would give you an indication of whether it would help or not.

Well Suited? Glad I could help :)

Dogs are by nature most active in the mornings and evenings (the correct term is 'crepuscular' - most active dawn and dusk - this is when they hunt for example) and given the right stimulation at these times, will generally mostly sleep during the day. Even with multiple dogs, that is pretty much what they do all day here! (often in completely different locations and not near each other at all)

Getting another dog does not 'solve problems' with an existing dog and may create more. You can't solve problems like boredom or not getting enough exercise etc with a second dog - you just end up with 2 bored or under exercised dogs. A second dog does not make the first dog 'easier' to live with - it just creates more responsibility. Getting a second dog because they think their dog is 'lonely' or because they think the dog will be happier (i.e. baby for us, another dog for the dog so you don't have to interact with them as much) will not be as good for the dog as actually spending more quality time with the first dog. And if someone hasn't got the time for one dog, getting another to 'keep it company' is a disaster waiting to happen. Having a second dog is great! (heck I have more than 2....), but a person needs to do it because THEY want another dog and have TIME for two dogs - not because they think it will take some of the burden off them if the dog has another doggy pal.

For those that were not aware, we now have a Veterinary Cardiology Specialist in Sydney as well as the ones in Melbourne and Brisbane (so now there are 3 cardiology specialists in the country!) Dr Neik Beijerink DVM PhD Dipl ECVIM-CA (Cardiology) N9443 recently moved here from the Netherlands. Initially for one year, but on talking to him yesterday, he and his family are looking to stay for quite a while which is great He is located at the University of Sydney and consults through the teaching hospital clinic. You can get appointments with him through there. I met him yesterday when he was doing a heart clinic for the CKCS Club of NSW (I attended the clinic with three of my Pyrs - all now certified heart clear :) . Many thanks to the club for running the clinic!). I understand he is doing another clinic in Canberra for the CKCS Club of ACT on Nov 10? So great for NSW people that we don't have to go to Melbourne for any specialist cardiology consults or testing that is required (outside of the occasional clinics run by those wonderful clubs that arrange them) and clubs in NSW and ACT etc now have someone much closer they can use if they wish to run clinics

Yikes While I see no issue with him being thin (IMO at that size you do NOT want any extra weight on him) he sure does look like a structural disaster! Agree those long legs seem to indicate abnormal growth in the long bones .

For crates etc: www.vebopet.com.au

This is a reflection of the 'germs are bad' mentality that is creeping into everything. And it is making us sicker.

1. Supervise. If she is doing it at night, restrict her access at night. 'Access all areas' is a privelidge to be earned, not a right. The ONLY way she will learn that it is not a chew toy is to not let it BECOME a chew toy and to catch her in the act/don't let her chew it in the first place. While she has access to it and can chew it, it is a self-rewarding activity.

Vet check certainly to make sure all is good. But my questions are the following: Is he always going in the same place in the house? What are you washing the floors with? (many disinfectants - particularly ammonia based bleaches etc - still smell like urine to a dogs nose. Vinegar or enzyme based cleaners are best) Do you go outside with your pup and stay with him while he toilets? Is he on lead or off lead outside when you do this? How long is he staying out there to toilet? What is he doing while out there apart from toileting? How well is he supervised in the house when he comes in? How much of the house does he have access to and are you watching him 100%? Do you have a crate or playpen that he goes in when you can't watch him? Reason I ask is sometimes pups need more supervision and a slightly different routine than they may be getting. And when a habit starts, you may need to change what you are doing in order to break it. If he is going in the one location, he may now think this is where he needs to go. For now you may need to limit access to that area - if he is inside have him in a crate, in a pen on a lead, or fully 100% supervised and watched. When you take him outside to do his business, take him out on lead (a slip lead is handy to have around for this). This is not play time or walk time so go to one spot and stand there. Be out there for AT LEAST 3 minutes. No playing or patting etc in this time. Just give the pup time to circle and get down to business. When you go back inside - restrict access/WATCH the pup. If he looks like he is about to go, head STRAIGHT outside with him. Jog/hustle him out quickly. If you are not quick enough and he starts to go in the house, a 'stern no' is not good enough (as it hasn't worked in the past...) ROAR at him (ARRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!) - it has to be enough to startle him or it does nothing - then jog/hustle him outside. (And remember if you don't catch them in the act, you can't tell them off - you just have to resolve to supervise more closely) Praise when he goes outside in the right spot (as he is finishing going). I have a 18 week pup here at the moment. As an example It is only just recently that she is allowed to wander around a room (still supervised) on her own. Up to this point she has for the most part been in a pen or crate while inside or attached to me via a lead. When not in her run, for the first few weeks she was always taken outside on lead to toilet. At night she learns not to stuff around and outside is business time not play time. During the day until recently if she is to be outside she was on lead until AFTER she toiletted THEN she was let off lead to play as a reward. The privelige of house access and play is something she is slowly earning through the development of good toiletting habits.

Growing up we did actually have several dogs just move in with us. One was a stray cattle dog x who just turned up the same day we brought home a new puppy and 'moved in'. He looked like he had been on the road for a while, be he seemed to just decide we were his family and that was that! The other was a Rotti x owned by a family in the town about 2km away who kept escaping and coming to our place to stay. He had attached himself to me and the horses and that is where he wanted to be! They eventually told us to keep him :laugh: On the same vein though, we had a cat who moved out. She decided that the old lady (a family friend) - who lived on her own in the little house at the end of our property - needed a friend. So she and moved in with her and became her devoted companion - She was an older cat at the time and despite being well pampered and loved I guess she just decided that they would be two old biddies together :laugh:

So so sad. I used to groom a Lab x that was so overweight it was not funny. The water would pool on his back because the amount of fat each side of his spine created a ditch. The dog was around 6 years old and could hardly move. They considered the dog to be 'getting old' and that this was 'just age'. Nothing I said helped. Nothing the vet said helped. Nothing that anyone said to them made an impact. They were killing their dog with 'love' and they just couldn't see it. Sad thing was they they probably halved the dogs life as a result. Their 'love' meant they had half as much time with their dog as they might have had otherwise. So very very sad...............

This. If the dog snapped at you because it was old and fed up or because you went near it while eating we were told to stop annoying the dog and it was our own fault for disobeying what we had been told. We were taught to respect them for the animals they were and definitely werent taught they were little furry people. Dogs that were too much of a problem were put down.

When they are naughty, they belong to me :laugh: Mine all seem to 'share'. They have special time and things they all do with my OH and the same with me. Sometimes they act clearly 'mine' and at other times they are clearly my OH's dogs (and I call them 'daddy's girl/boy'! :laugh: )

Some fun with non toxic chalks. My model was a rescue Pyrenean (hence the short haircut - she was is a BAD way when she arrived with us and this was growing back).. Lisa-Jane was so good and loved all the attention she got on the table. To her it was just cuddle and smooch time.

Show Me Good Show

I grew up with Kelpies and a range of crossbred dogs of various shapes and sizes. But I bred and showed purebred horses. When I wanted my first dog as an adult I decided I would get a purebred. I was looking at various breeds and actually seriously considering an English or Welsh Springer Spaniel. This was pre internet days. Then I bought a copy of Dogs USA Puppies Annual (I still have that copy!) In it there was information about a breed called the 'Great Pyrenees'. I just couldnt stop looking at those pictures and read the bits about them over and over. So I bought a book, contacted the Canine Council who told me they were 'Pyrenean Mountain Dogs' here, and was put in touch with the Breed Club. I talked to them and then talked to a breeder who happened to have a pup available. They told me all the 'bad' bits, quizzed me up and down, I thought about it and I decided. First time I met a Pyr was when I picked that 9 week old puppy up from the airport... Then my education began :laugh: It wasn't always plain sailing and I did have to make adjustments for owning this breed - Something I have been more than willing to do. But it really does suit me perfectly all things considered so I count myself truly blessed. I have looked at plenty of other breeds, but this is truly my heart and soul breed. Now, my 'second' breed is the Dalmatian. I actually considered other breeds when making my choice - Bernese Mountain Dog, Gordon Setter and GSP being some of the front runners that took my fancy. I chose a Dally mainly because I always wanted one and had a Dallyx growing up. There were also other reasons I chose it at the time such as being a breeder close by who could mentor me in the show ring and I wanted to try my hand at agility. (Pyr breeders are few and far between and no one lived even within a few hours of me at the time) I made a good friend out of my Dally's breeder and she had helped and taught me a LOT. While I loved my Dally though, and was heavily involved in the breed for most of her 13 years, it really wasn't the breed for me and I doubt I will ever have another. I never regret getting her for a second, do still love the breed, but she taught me a lot about how much the Pyr personality suits me best :)

Where is that like button!!!