espinay2

Just a few puppy photos :)

The enforcement of an age past which you can not use a stud dog: so this means those dogs where there is excellent proof of longevity and health may be potentially removed from a breeding program ..... I would note that given the potential impact of the Vic proposals (and this goes for the NSW ones too) that EVERYONE and not just people living in Vic should respond. If you have ever or ever think you may want to purchase a pup from that state, or use a stud dog from that state or have any involvement with dogs from that state then it will affect you!

Vaccination of puppies with c5? Have they even READ the guidelines from the WSAVA? Which incidentally informed the AVA policy on vaccines. Something else they obviously haven't read. http://www.wsava.org/guidelines/vaccination-guidelines

grace and pups

Edit double post

Whelped today. Three boys and three girls. First was a big bruiser boy who caused a little trouble getting out, but rest were much easier. Pups and tired mum doing well. I promise photos later.

given there are a number of large raw pet food companies that use offal in their products (VIP, Billinghurst BARF etc etc) it may be interesting to see how they police this - restriction of trade? I have actually dropped a line to a few of them to alert them to the proposal and get the feeling they are quite interested...

Supervision is the key. Habituation though seeing them frequently does help, but the important thing is how you handle it when you DO encounter them. The way I do it is to make sure that in the beginning the pup is either on a lead or has a fence between it and the birds. I praise for being calm and ignoring the birds. They can look quietly, but the aim is not to have them react. If they react by staring/stalking/bouncing at the bird (even through the fence) I correct it. I spend time just sitting quietly out among the birds with the dog on lead. I also hold the birds and let the pup see they are 'mine'. Once older and doing well on lead, I may drop the lead while I am there. I still need to be on hand to correct. Later they will be offlead with me there. I do not trust a dog 100% with birds till they are older. Beware the 'terrible teens' when they will often decide to try out a game of 'run through the birds' or 'lets chase' which needs quick and assertive correction and continued supervision for a while. Note this is with Livestock guardians, whose prey drive is not strong - but they still need to be taught as birds are flappy, squawky, unpredictable things and temptation for a youngster even if it is just play. So a dog with a stronger prey drive may need even more work. As I said, supervision is key.

Thanks. Day 60 and she still has her legs crossed. I am hopeless with a stethoscope. Cant even listen to my own heart properly with the darn things (and I do have a good one) :laugh:

you. have. got. to. be. kidding.....

CO's are not for the lighthearted or inexperienced. Lovely dogs but a hell of a lot of dog to own. Similar to a Central Asian in temperament.

My Pyreneans often prefer to sleep on the tiles. Mainly because it is cooler. I do provide soft bedding for them, and they tend to alternate. They don't sleep in the same place all night or all day. No problems with hips or joints. The main thing you may need to watch for is bursa on the elbows from pressure. But some dogs get them and some don't. Maybe see if she will use a bed that is 'cooler' - maybe a raised bed with a cover that promotes good airflow.

I trust my dogs instincts - and the situation. My breed is known to be fairly discriminating and if they don't like someone, you generally take notice. I have found this to be true as a rule. One interesting (but understandable) exception was the first time my now OH met my now long departed girl Milou. She was lying on her bed in the lounge and he went over to say hello to her - and leaned over her while wearing a baseball cap and sunglasses. She let out a low growl. I tell you in that instant I thought 'well this one is a goner' :laugh: . He backed off straight away and we then did a proper introduction. They ended up being inseparable friends with a VERY tight and special bond between them.

I've found similar - they don't need to be born in a paddock with their stock to develop into good workers - I think it was Espinay who pointed out that lots of rescues (who may never have been with stock) also achieve this. It is a pretty individual thing from dog to dog. Most of what I've learned about working LGDs has been through trial & error, as you receive a lot of conflicting advice. I made lots of mistakes with my 1st couple of dogs but we got there in the end - it's a big learning curve and so very different from training a dog for the showring, obedience or herding (which is all I'd ever done). What you say about finding the key to each puppy is so true (I also have a racist dog - he loathes red goats but loves his standard coloured ones :) ) - different strengths in individual dogs will help decide where they are best placed in a working situation. One of my boys is a brilliant "big paddock" dog - he patrols really efficiently, likes having lots of space & is quite forceful in his job. I have another girl who is just sheer magic with kidding does in a smaller lot - she's exceptionally gentle with the babies & knows before I do who is getting ready to birth. They will let you know what sort of a workload they are happy and comfortable with. I still get a kick out of watching them with their charges, they have favourites that they get attached to which is pretty cute & they will scold naughty ones. The way they coordinate when there is a threat is awesome - I have 3 boys that have worked together for a few years now & the teamwork is incredible, 1 drops back with the flock, the other 2 streak across the paddock - all it takes is that "danger" bark. In my experience, as pups you need to "set them up to succeed" & not put them in a position where things can really go wrong - so long as the instinct/ability is there, lots of opportunity, encouragement when they do well & some patience, is what will result in confident, dedicated working LGDs. This is where we need a LIKE button. There is nothing to add to this post, it speaks the truth in spades. got to agree wholeheartedly with this

Day 57 today. grace was lying on her back next to my chair earlier, and I had a fun time watching the puppies play soccer in her belly. Those babies were really bouncing.

You have to apply to council just as you would if you were intending to use the land for any other purpose which requires council approval - via a planning approval application. I am guessing then that it would depend on your property zoning under the council LEP, which is what specifies what use requires approval and what is exempt. Reading my own council LEP and zoning requirements it doesnt make it clear at all, so I have written to council for clarification. Just to follow up on this, I got a written reply from my council. Basically it does depend on your zoning. And then the definition of 'commercial' (this is probably the greyest area, but is where the LEC ruling Ringo was talking about would come in). Council advice was basically in my situation and zone, additional approvals were not required. Happy to share the reply privately if someone wants to read it.

Radio controlled by the look of the avatar. My OH is heavy into RC flying. Costs nearly as much as the dogs and some of those planes are huge :laugh: A calm dog then. Yes. The dog would be around trailers and planes and people and hear the noise of the engines (electric not so noisy but fuel engines can make a little bit. High slopes though so gliders??). Most of this will be socialisation and training, but you don't want a dog that gets too hyped up every time something moves and you would want one that is happy to sit tied up and watch etc.

Radio controlled by the look of the avatar. My OH is heavy into RC flying. Costs nearly as much (if not the same) as the dogs and some of those planes are huge :laugh:

If you want 'trainability' then the spitz breeds may not be exactly what you are looking for. What about a Shetland Sheepdog?It is what springs first to my mind.hits the 'size, 'cuddly' and trainability buttons and would IMO cope with the routine you give above in terms of exercise etc (though talk to some breeders to check this out). I probably wouldn't be inclined to suggest other working breeds like border collie or Aussie shepherd though given your working hours because of their possible greater needs for mental stimulation than you may be able to provide given your routine.

An excellent video of dogs at some kennels in France and the 2012 Pyrenean Nationale d'Elevage, also in France:

They can do very well even if they don't see stock till they leave the breeder or even later in life. Many rescues who go on to be working dogs don't see stock till introduced in foster care. I myself have Introduced adult dog to stock as well as puppies coming to me at 8 weeks who have not seen stock before. the thing to remember is that LGD are not trained, they are managed.

Take a look here too : http://www.midwoof.com/store/docs/MaleReproIssues.pdf

Thanks Ringo. That seemed to be my reading of the LEP but certainly want to get it straight! It does pay to know where you stand. I actually have a reasonable background in legislation and admin law and even for me it is difficult trying to tease it all out, so I can imagine what it is like for those who don't have this working knowledge.

You have to apply to council just as you would if you were intending to use the land for any other purpose which requires council approval - via a planning approval application. I am guessing then that it would depend on your property zoning under the council LEP, which is what specifies what use requires approval and what is exempt. Reading my own council LEP and zoning requirements it doesnt make it clear at all, so I have written to council for clarification.

I like the idea of sending out 'hints' sheets. Was thinking about something along those lines - such as tending out 'terrible teens' info at appropriate ages etc. Or maybe something like a newsletter. I guess you have to give them the option of 'unsubscribing' if sending out a newsletter, and dont send it out too often, but most would probably have no issue with it.