Ranger00

Hi everyone On Wednesday my pup (4 month old BC) has an appointment to see a dermatologist about his itchy skin (see other thread), and of course the referring vet has advised to commence an elimination diet of 1 source protein and 1 source carb eg. Kangaroo & sweet potato, which is what I expected. I'd like to know how others feel about putting a working breed pup of his age on an elimination diet. I'm quite concerned that he is too young for this and won't get the vitamins, minerals etc that he needs, and in particular that he will be missing out on crucial fats during this stage of growth. I have started feeding him on BARF (previously on Advance Puppy biscuits) only about a week ago and his itching has not subsided at all, but I'm aware a week is not long enough to say whether or not this improves his itching. The vet also said many cases of itchiness in puppies will subside around 12 months of age once the immune system gets into full swing. Given that I've not known BCs to be prone to food allergies or skin issues I'm pretty stumped, none of the breeders other dogs have any issues and the rest of the litter is fine as well. Any advice will be gratefully received. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Well that will teach me for not actually reading the paperwork and just assuming! :-) thanks for the heads up, I appreciate it.

Hi everyone Thanks for the advice thus far. Unfortunately his itching persists (seems to be getting worse if anything) and his skin has become irritated from the scratching, a visit to the vet saw him given antihistamines (no change) and a recommendation to put Neocort cream on the areas. Bit hard to get it on the skin through his fur! Plus he licks it all off anyway. I have changed his food over to BARF at the recommendation of the breeder, going to give it a bit of time but it's so hard to see my poor little guy so irritated. He cries as he is scratching/biting at himself and he is starting to get bald patches from constantly chewing at himself. There is still no sign of irritation on his skin apart from the abrasions from scratching. Not much other advice from the breeder and no other pup owners have made contact re itching in their pups... He came with 6 weeks pet insurance and I had already arranged to continue this so he is insured, it's not really that helpful when the cost is spread over multiple appointments though, given the excess is $125 anyway and most single appointments are less than that! I may take him to another vet tomorrow and request some skin scrapings to check for mites, mange, and yeast (he does smell a little bit but not an obvious yeasty smell) just to rule them out. Any other advice greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hi all I need some assistance with itching in my BC pup. He will be 11 weeks on Wednesday and is extremely itchy, constantly scratching and "flea biting" - he is on Advocate and had a dose on the 23rd of Oct and I've not once seen a flea on him. I thought initially it may be an allergy to the grass as he also gets a bit of runny eye (disappears with warm saline and have given chlorsig drops upon breeders recommendation) but his skin shows absolutely no signs of irritation or redness, and he itches even where the grass wouldn't touch him. He seems to have become even itchier in the last week or so, but nothing has changed in his diet or routine. He is on Advance puppy and has half a chicken frame 3x per week for dinner. I use boiled chicken breast for his training and occasionally some 100% liver treats (not many though). Is it possible he is allergic to chicken? I recently had him at the vet for another issue and she simply said he had a very dry coat considering he is on Advance, but didn't offer any other advice, probably because at the time he was very ill after eating a bunch of cats litter so priority was to get him xrayed and so on - he's fine now. I will have him see his usual vet on Wednesday before puppy school but thought it was worth posting. I have bathed him once using Paws puppy shampoo - all natural ingredients and PH balanced. Didnt make any difference. I have been brushing him with a small slicker brush but despite him having what looks like a lot of dead, dry coat, it's not getting much fur out whatsoever. I think that's all the background info, please let me know if you have any suggestions or advice. Thanks!

Thanks for the further comments everyone. I decided to book him into a 4 week puppy course at the local vet after all (it was on a bit of a whim actually, whilst I was at the vet with my cat). I confirmed they have had no cases of parvo there and it seems to be a relatively small class. If I'm not happy with anything that goes on in the classes I will happily forfeit the fee and not finish it off, but I feel given that he IS submissive, it might in fact make things worse to not socialise him with other dogs, and I just don't know of any other dogs that he can safely socialise with at homes/friends houses etc. I've booked an appointment for him at the same vet on Monday to have his first check-up and then he commences the puppy class on the Wednesday night. I really hope that he has a good experience at the puppy class so that will instill positive associations with the vet too. Hopefully I've done the right thing by him! ETA: I then intend to commence taking him to puppy agility classes at the ACWA. I mostly want the socialisation aspect of the puppy classes at the vet, not concerned about the training as I'm confident in doing this myself.

Thanks for all the further posts, seems like there are varied views on the subject, which is what I suspected! My worry is really only about not having many other doggy friends to socialise him with, but I can take him out and about with me (carried, of course), and I've already organised to have people come by and meet him... Don't know anyone with children, though.. I'll give Pawprints a call, they were one that I looked at but no locations particularly close to me, except the one held at a doggy daycare... I presume that's just the location though, and that the facilitator is someone unrelated to the business?

Thanks all. My concern was the lack of socialisation if I decided not to take him to a puppy class, but on the other hand what good is it if the "socialisation" just hinders him even more. I was under the impression puppy preschool is more for socialisation than actual training/obedience. I remember (very vaguely) 15 years ago taking our first BC to puppy preschool and she was easily the smartest of the class but also very exciteable. The trick we had taught her and were going to show the class (everyone was set a task to teach their pup a trick and present it the next week) was "speak", however the class "trainer" made her wait until after all the other puppies - about 12-15 of them - had shown their trick, by which time she was already barking her scone off wanting her treat. I remember crying about it in the car on the way home, lol. I was about 11.

Hi all I've been doing a lot of researching trying to find a puppy preschool/class for my new BC (coming home in a little under 2 weeks) but to be perfectly honest I can't find one I am happy with, and the recommendations on DOL for ones in Perth are mostly either "Yeah it was okay" or really old and no longer seem to be running (such as Train A Pup, which going by the website is defunct since it hasn't been updated since 2011). I do not want to go to any class that has a puppy "free for all" because my boy is very submissive for a BC, bordering on too submissive (IMO) - I'm happy to work on that, if I wasn't I would back out of the purchase, but I don't think another pup rough-housing with him or accidentally trampling him is going to help that issue, so I simply don't want to risk it. My other concern with the class for 8-12 week old pups is that there has been a number of cases of parvo in my area recently. The breeder recommended a particular class to me but after enquiring with them it turns out it's not for puppies that have not had their second vaccination. I have no concerns with my ability to train him, so my reason for enquiring about puppy classes is just for the socialisation aspect. I don't know many people with vaccinated friendly dogs to socialise him with at home til he has received his vaccinations either. So I put the question out there to those more knowledgeable on DOL - is it absolutely necessary to take my boy to puppy preschool, or can I make do without it? Thanks!

Laying the schmooze on my boy, even though he looks extremely unhappy about it! I can't wait til he comes home, only 11 days! :D

Aussi3, it's a border collie. Not the ideal breed for this situation, hence why I really want to make sure I do as much as I possibly can to get things right. The house is open plan, so it's all tiled except the bedrooms, which will be baby-gated to allow the cat to escape (he has his own bedroom as well as taking over mine!) and keep pup off my bed and carpets. I definitely, definitely wouldn't leave pup & puss together unsupervised until I'm confidence no one will get hurt. The cat grew up with "his" border collie, so I think while he might get a bit of a shock at a smaller, bouncier one, I'm confident I can have them getting alone within a couple of weeks. Of course I know there's no guarantees though. I did consider a pen but thought this might be too small, and I thought it would be nicer for pup to have free run on the tiles, but you're right, I don't want to come home to my leather couches and leather dining set ripped to pieces, LOL. It's been a long time since I had a puppy, so I'd forgotten about the destruction they can cause! Anyone know where to get a relatively large puppy pen? I'll give the fake lawn over pee pads a go - this is my first male dog and we got my last girl in a totally different house and different circumstances, where toileting was never done inside, so it'll be new to me, too! It's just a shame I can't have a dog door (inside only cat) like I had previously, as this would solve a lot of things, but we do the best with what we've got, so that's what I'll do!

Thanks for your replies. Just to acknowledge/answer the questions that were asked re why I've taken leave when this won't be pups usual routine: I took the time off not just for pup, the timing just worked out that way. Without going into a huge backstory, I work in an emotionally stressful job dealing with people who are suffering mental illness, addiction, financial hardship etc, and after having a couple of months off recently after being involved in an accident - I was knocked off my bike by a 4WD and sustained a number of injuries - I have found it extremely difficult to cope with coming back to the job, and with the long commute on top of that, it's just gotten too much and has severely started to affect my own mental wellbeing. This is another reason I am looking for another job (I had already starting looking before my partner and I split), and I also wanted to use all my leave in the case that I was offered a job that couldn't allow me my required 4 week notice period. I am that desperate to get out of the job that if there was no loss of owed leave by giving a shorter notice than needed, then I would go ahead and deal with the other repercussions of not serving the required notice. I also had the full amount accrued and was told I needed to take leave. On top of those recent events, it's my birthday today and my ex came over last night with what I'm sure were good intentions, but only hurt and upset me even more. So I'm feeling particularly sensitive and upset today, stuck at work trying not to bawl my eyes out! So apologies if I come across as a bit of a mess, I am one right now, lol. I will make sure I start introducing him to being alone from day one, and only "formally" exercise him early morning and at night, which will be his usual times when I return to work. Routine was probably the wrong word, I more so meant I wanted to use the time to get his training downpat, house trained, socialised with the cat etc. I'm not going to lie, I will probably need this pups companionship more than ever before now given the circumstances, but I will be as vigilent as possible to ensure I do the right thing by him, and not let my own needs right now cause problems for him for the next 15 years.

Hello everyone My boy will be coming home in just over 2 weeks time. I have taken almost 5 weeks off work to be there to settle him in, get him into a routine, commence toilet training etc, but after that I do have to return to work. I work fulltime and have a lengthy commute to/from work, so will be gone all day from 6am. This was not to be an issue, as my partner works mostly on the road during the day, and had also booked some leave overlapping mine. That way pup would get a solid 6 weeks with us, and during this time we would gradually reduce the amount of time spent with us in order to get him used to being on his own. Then, when we both returned to work, my partner would still be able to come home during the day to spend some time with him, let him out to go to the toilet etc (have decided to keep him inside, initially, due to security worries and a recent increase in crime in my area - he will have run of the house except the bedrooms). However now my circumstances have changed as my partner and I have split up and he has moved out... leaving me to wonder what the best way to combat pup being alone all day is. I've already got him lots of toys including interactive ones such as kongs etc, and he will have his feline friend around for company, but he will still only be 13 weeks now when I return to work, and I am worried this is much too young to be alone for so long. I will probably pop him into doggy daycare one day a week (probably a Wednesday, to break the week up for him) but not until he's a little older. Not getting him is simply not an option. I will do whatever it takes to make this work, because I know it can, I'm just not 100% HOW. I am already job searching for a job closer to home, and with better hours, hopefully this comes to fruition before this even becomes a problem, but I'm being realistic that this simply may not happen in time. And if it doesn't, what can/should I do to ensure pup and I are both happy? I've even considered reducing my hours at my current job by an hour a day, but that significantly reduces my income and I doubt I could sustain my mortgage and other expenses if I were to do this. I work too far away from where I live to make it home and back during my lunch hour, otherwise I would do this. Bringing him to work is absolutely out of the question. I have a park a couple houses down, so physical exercise is not going to be a problem, and when old enough I would like to get him started in dog sports such as either agility or tracking, but I know these things won't mean much while he's home waiting for his mum for 5 days a week. Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially from those who have been in the same/similar situations. Thanks

I agree with the sentiment of a day too early than a day too late, but I'm going to go against the grain and say I have torn myself apart since April last year agonising over whether I tried hard enough to help my girl, or if I should have taken her to another vet, or asked for the MRI even though the vets told me it wouldn't change the outcome (suspected brain/brain stem tumour), or given the cortisone longer to work, and so on. If you know for 100% certain what's wrong with your dog, and that they are in pain, then okay perhaps the posts above are what you should go by, but is it definitely dementia, have other causes been ruled out, etc... I certainly don't want to make you question yourself, if you are sure, but I had no concrete evidence and my girl became very ill very suddenly... I wish to this day I had gone ahead with the bloody MRI to be absolutely certain.

But of course! :)

Thanks guys! There pics are from last week, taken at 5 weeks. I get to visit him again on Sunday, and hopefully see the parents again, they were SO gorgeous - the dam was so lovely and affectionate and sat in my lap (I was on the floor) whilst pups had a drink, and the sire was just gorgeous, one of the best looking BCs I've ever seen. So I'm very happy! :) Then 2 weeks after that, it's hometime! :)

There we go. Credit goes to the breeder for these great pics! :)

Congrats gillybob, and I hope you find the one for you, tikira! I was going to upload some images of Bicky, but dol doesn't host photos evidently, and I'm at work so all the file-sharing websites are blocked. Boo! Edit: Have got it sussed now, but says the photos are too big. Alas! :)

Here are the Bunnings one if anyone is interested, I'll probably get one for my boy! http://www.bunnings.com.au/worm-play-tunnel_p3320696 $12.97 :)

Thanks everyone, this has spurred me to look into OL much further, I appreciate your responses. You know the saying, ignorance is bliss. I'd rather be well informed and hate the truth than be blissfully ignorant!

No problem, my boy is still only 5 weeks (tomorrow), so it'll be another month at least before he's ready for a playdate! :)

I thought that too! .....but it may highlight the issue to a whole new bunch of people, so maybe not entirely without merit! I would not be surprised if the demographic who buy Cleo are also buying these sorts of puppy farmed dogs. So perhaps not so much an investigation by Cleo and more a targeted supply of material by Oscar's Law et al to Cleo to try and open a few eyes about where their handbag dogs come from? I am no fan of Oscar's Law or their methods but we can't defend a trade in misery either. There are other ways to make money and it doesn't just stop at Asia, a good proportion of unwanted dogs in the Middle East come from Asian puppy farms or Asian puppy farm stock - this poor dog for instance (warning - graphic content): https://www.facebook.com/HuskyTeddyWantsToSurviveBahrain Please not I am not saying "don't sell to Asian people" I am saying that trading in farmed companion animals to Asia is a shitty thing to be involved in. Hi - excuse my ignorance, but may I ask why you aren't a fan of Oscars Law? Genuinely interested. I really don't know that much about them (I guess that's why I don't know why you aren't a fan! :) ) but I thought essentially they were a group against backyard breeders/puppy farms/pet shops selling puppies & kittens etc?

Hi Seld! Yes, Henley Brook is just down the road along Lord Street/West Swan Rd! :)

Thanks Lisa, glad to hear it can be done and that my fears are probably a little unfounded! Like you said, it may be a little harder not to compare since I've stuck with the same breed (gosh I don't think I could ever part from them now!), which is why I decided on a male this time. He's also chocolate/white, where my last girl was black/white... so I hope that makes it just a teeny eeny bit easier not to compare him to her! Lol... I can still remember coming home to a bathroom completely covered in torn up loofahs when Pork was still a pup, and that was 14-15 years ago now!! But yes, I'll try not to get frustrated with puppy shenanigans! :-)

Hi Jules. I'm new to the forums but was in tears reading your story whilst at work today. Your story almost perfectly mirrors that of the lead up to, and the passing of my beautiful Border Collie girl last year. She was fine, playing and happy and her usual amazing self one day, and then within a week we had to let her go because she couldn't even stand up without collapsing. The vet suspected the same; a brain/brain stem tumor. She was 13.5. I'm so sorry to hear of your loss and the ups and downs that come with not knowing exactly what the diagnosis is, or what to expect, or whether or not the cortisone will make a difference, or if there were earlier signs that you might have missed etc. Like Joey, she would have periods where she appeared to "come good" but then quickly fade again... The most devastating was when I opened the front door to take her to the vets to say goodbye, and she had a sudden burst of energy and ran outside to the car. Within 10 minutes she was barely moving again. Apparently this is not uncommon. Again, I'm sorry for your loss. It seems Joey was very blessed to have you as his owner. <3

Yay! There will be no complaints for me, I love me some doggy schmooze! :) My last girl was everything that they say males are in terms of being affectionate etc... she was beautiful. I still miss her every day, though it's been almost 18 months since she went across the rainbow bridge. Sometimes I worry I might not love my new boy as much, because my girl was my best friend, even though I'm sure that's just silly, I've always loved all creatures great and small! :)