Alison03

Short and to the point Aussie3, I agree with you whole heartedly. :)

I think the issue is not how much you trust your dogs. They may be 100% biddable. But if I see you with an offlead dog in an on lead area when I'm walking my dogs, I wouldn't know how well trained your dogs are. Which means that I will have to take a different road to ensure my dogs' safety. The oval near my place is on lead only at all times. I usually take my dogs there and we have a great time walking and jogging (always on lead). However, there have been times when I drove over to the oval, saw quite a few off lead dogs, put my dogs back in the car and drove back home. I could have gone in assuming that all those dogs are 100% biddable, but I have no way to tell. I have seen dogs walk perfectly by their owners side, and then suddenly run up to my dogs. It's not worth the risk. I've done exactly the same thing, got back in my car when I've seen off leash dogs at my destination. An off leash dog is an unknown quantity, there is no signal or clue that tells someone it's friendly and under control. I'm done with trusting that a dog owner with an off leash dog is actually in control, I've had to many instances where they are obviously not.

When my dog was a pup, I naively thought walking her wouldn't be an issue, that theory was very soon subject to revision, I was astounded how many off lead dogs I came across in on lead areas. I've become quite adept at doing detours in a very casual manner so as not to attract attention, fortunately for me my dogs focus is on me when she's on leash, so she doesn't react. Good luck with your walks. :)

Does anyone know of a pet friendly place in or near Kiama, close to the beach would be nice :)

I've never seen a ranger where I live, only after my dog attack. You shouldn't have to spend your family walk ducking, diving and weaving around other people's off leash dogs but it seems to be a way of life for all of us these days. Being a dog owner for some is about no care taken and no responsibility accepted. We are all going to end up being policed to death with dog laws, where barking at the Metre reader man through a closed gate will be considered menacing, all because of the few messing it up for the rest of us. For many people its also about taking all care and accepting all responsibility. I'm glad you feel that way and I'm sure you are sincere when you say it and would be devastated if something went wrong while walking Toby off leash, just think of it this way, if you are really skilled at off leash walking and you seem to be, others will see you doing it in an on leash area, how would you feel if some young guy tried to copy you, did it badly, and caused an accident or if his dog went after Toby because the young bloke doesn't have your control. Do you see what I mean, you are setting an example, others will try to copy it, please set that example in an off leash area.

I've asked these same questions and haven't really got a sensible answer from the off leash walkers, only a lot of clap trap about having a special bond with their dog. I don't get there need to do it either, I suspect the real reason doesn't sound as uplifting as the bonding claim and has more to do with looking cool and being super human, showing the world what a superior being they must be to have such control over their large pet, that they don't need to tie their dog to them. I've even been told repeatedly that an unleashed dog doesn't mean an uncontrolled dog, there's a highly irrational statement if ever there was one. They don't even attempt to explain why they feel they are entitled to break the law. It's all very odd I've never come across a state of denial quite like it. What bothers me is that if this forum is a cross section of our society, say if there are 10 posters at any one time and two of them haven't got a problem with walking there dog off leash, does that mean out in the real world that two out of every ten dog owners feel they are entitled to break the leash laws too. Scary idea I think. If there wasn't value/benefit in walking your dog off lead then there wouldn't be any demand for off lead dog areas. Pretty sure I've even seen threads in this very forming asking for greater off lead areas. Just because you don't see value in it doesn't mean that others don't. I absolutely see the value in it, it's a great ability to have but it must be done in designated off lead areas not in on leash areas. I have never said there is no merit in having a dog walk off leash with its owner, but please only in the right place. You may be fantastic at the off leash training but there will be a lot of dog owners that aren't, they just think they are. For everyone's safety choose the off lead parks.

hear hear! Yes yes yes. :)

I've never seen a ranger where I live, only after my dog attack. You shouldn't have to spend your family walk ducking, diving and weaving around other people's off leash dogs but it seems to be a way of life for all of us these days. Being a dog owner for some is about no care taken and no responsibility accepted. We are all going to end up being policed to death with dog laws, where barking at the Metre reader man through a closed gate will be considered menacing, all because of the few messing it up for the rest of us.

I've asked these same questions and haven't really got a sensible answer from the off leash walkers, only a lot of clap trap about having a special bond with their dog. I don't get there need to do it either, I suspect the real reason doesn't sound as uplifting as the bonding claim and has more to do with looking cool and being super human, showing the world what a superior being they must be to have such control over their large pet, that they don't need to tie their dog to them. I've even been told repeatedly that an unleashed dog doesn't mean an uncontrolled dog, there's a highly irrational statement if ever there was one. They don't even attempt to explain why they feel they are entitled to break the law. It's all very odd I've never come across a state of denial quite like it. What bothers me is that if this forum is a cross section of our society, say if there are 10 posters at any one time and two of them haven't got a problem with walking there dog off leash, does that mean out in the real world that two out of every ten dog owners feel they are entitled to break the leash laws too. Scary idea I think.

Dog beaches are usually ok but I've found late at night a bit hazardous around where I live, as some dog owners let there dogs "out for a run" at night. Aren't National Parks no dogs allowed now, even on a leash? The ones I've been to in NSW are. Do they just let them out all by themselves? That's terrible! I live close to a National Park with lots of walking tracks and there are signs everywhere saying that dogs must be on a leash. But I have been to other National Parks where dogs aren't allowed full stop. Yes they just let them out by themselves, I've had people tell me they let their dogs out for a run. Amazing isn't it, that's why I don't walk at night. Ok there are some on leash National Parks I thought they were all no dogs allowed.

My dog attack was on a rainy day, that's why I had a golf umbrella to use to protect us.

I do make allowances for other dog owners, if I see an off leash dog in the park, I go around the park to avoid it, I don't look for trouble, I do get cranky when despite me bending over backwards by taking detours someone insists on us interacting with their off leash dog and gets offended if I decline the honour. I've got my walk more or less mapped out, it includes a main road and a small park, the small park being the riskiest, I stay away from quiet suburban streets now. I didn't walk with my dog for 12 months after my attack, I felt like we were under house arrest. As we were attacked just outside my house on the nature strip, getting out the door was my biggest issue. If I have a bad day, the next day I drive to a town nearby and walk in the park where the Guide Dogs are trained. That's a safe spot, the Guide dog trainers jump on any off leash dogs and their owners.

Dog beaches are usually ok but I've found late at night a bit hazardous around where I live, as some dog owners let there dogs "out for a run" at night. Aren't National Parks no dogs allowed now, even on a leash? The ones I've been to in NSW are.

One kick and most dogs would take off I agree but what about the greyhound that was killed here last month? That dog was being kicked by several people and it didn't even flinch. As I said earlier in this thread the only thing that made that dog run was being smashed with a fire extinguisher and even then it took a while for it to give up, by that time the greyhound was dead on the road in front of it's distraught owner. I am one of those that is not happy for a dog to say hello, I like Kirty do not want dogs approaching mine and I have TWO dogs to defend. I don't want to have to lift any dog off mine, I don't want to have to assess a situation I just want to take them for a bloody walk! SM any incident like that is beyond horrible but in reality, it is the rarity as well (thankfully).. You are totally within your rights not to want other dogs to say hi to your dogs - they are your dogs and you can decide that. Unfortunately not everyone in the community will respect that - it is the times we live in. All I can suggest is report the owners and dogs if they keep going and you have asked them not to come close. No one wants to do these things but again, we live in a world that has very little respect for other humans - what do they care about someone else's dog.. Report people, search for places you do feel more comfortable walking your dog are all the suggestions I have because in the long run, we can only control OUR dogs and what we do - we have no control over other people and what they do with their dogs. Most and I did try to stress MOST dogs, would go with a growly get away and a step towards them.. If that fails then a kick would send the majority of dogs on their way. The dog that attacks and won't stop really is rare when you consider the amount of dogs we have in our community. All we can do, as responsible dog owners is report these dogs.. Personally I would throw my dog up on a car or over a fence (probably not the best idea either) if I thought it would save it from an attacking dog. Yes I agree and not having a go at you SL, the thing is at 50 years of age and riddled with arthritis I would struggle to throw one of my greyhounds over a fence let alone two. My point is why should I? I SHOULD be able to walk my dogs without fear but apparently that is not my right anymore Also the attacking dog isn't going to wait patiently while you throw your dogs over the fence, dog attacks are fast and quite often the dog is on you before you have chance to react.

I agree the high velocity attack is a real life changing experience, it seemed to sensitize me to all the rest, loose dogs in the park etc, I'm afraid when I see a large off leash dog and that makes me cranky, I hate being made to feel that way. I find walking during the day in the early afternoon is the safest too.

Interesting idea, I guess it would distract the dogs, I'd end up with the balloon bursting on me I'm sure. I knew a lady who used to carry a pocket full of pebbles to throw at wandering dogs. She had a good aim, I didn't like the way the dogs yelped when the pebble hit them, so I couldn't do that.

I find it very sad also, so many people where I live have said to me they don't walk their dogs anymore, they look surprised when I say that I do. It shouldn't be that way. I hope you find somewhere safe to walk your dog and she makes a quick recovery. :) I know trying to talk to the owners of out of control dogs is like the desperate pleading with the arrogant and uncaring, but no doubt I will continue to do it because I'm stubborn. My husband tells me nothing will change because there will always be an element of society who don't give a rats arse about anyone else, unfortunately it appears a lot of that element own dogs.

The irony of course is that the people you need to worry about will never read any of this, no matter how many posts you make on DoL. Even the few defending off lease walking are highly unlikely to be the owners we fear. They aren't here, not even as visitors. And even if they were, they would only laugh. Sad but true Diva.

I'd like to let everyone know that I would never strike a dog or hurt it in anyway unless I was sure it was committed to hurting me, my dog or anyone I had with me. I am not crazy violent person but I will deflect a suspect dog away from me by various non deadly methods, like shouting, or spraying with Spray Shield, if I ever meet any of you or your dogs be assured all I want is a relaxed walk with my dog, I am not looking for trouble, quite the reverse, but if any dog seeks to spoil my serenity by attempting to bite us, or run over the top of us I will react and not with an indulgent smile. I'm sorry if any off leashers have a problem with this but you will be breaking the law not me. You will never see me in an off leash park. :)

Yes accidents happens. But we don't need to go and drive on the wrong side of the road just because we're confident drivers. If people want to live on the "wild side" they should do so in their own little space and shouldn't be putting the public at risk. Now I know people who've witnessed off-lead dogs tear up an on-lead dogs in front of it's owners. Guts flying everywhere. I've had many close calls myself. Little dogs rushing at us. My quick thinking has saved many off-lead dogs lives. So yes I do scan a head and I am aware of my surroundings. So I'd rather be aware then ignorant. I agree wholeheartedly, aware and alert beats the hell out of panic stricken. I can not personally justify carrying a maglite or a stick or cattle prod no matter how many unfriendly dogs we've come across. It honestly stinks of all kinds of crazy to me and I really have to bow out of this ridiculous thread now. It's infuriating from both sides of the argument, you should not have your dogs ambling free off lead, there's not any real need, however if shit happens and my dog happened to say get out after a break in, or snap his collar or something else happen and some loony beat him or sprayed him I would be beyond furious and as much as you have a right to defend your own, so would I. And I would. Friendly off lead dogs don't bother me in the slightest, but it's law as the majority are troublesome or less than controlled, but from the other side of the fence you really need to assess the situation at hand before losing your mind and whipping out a cattle prod. Perhaps if you really are considering arming yourself because walks in your neighborhood are so traumatic for you, it might be best to think about a dog treadmill or an acreage or something. I really would be more concerned about some unauthorised person carrying a concealed weapon than a dog. Oh and I'll just leave this here too, from www.police.vic.gov.au If you say so, but the dogs who rushed us weren't friendly and they sure as hell weren't the "innocent victims" of an equipment failure. I work in rescue and whilst not an expert am a reasonable judge of a dog's body language, they were not coming over just to say hello, and I was walking a dog that had just had a femoral head ostectomy, I could not afford for her to jump or twist suddenly in an effort to avoid a bite. She did not have enough viable bone for a hip replacement so an attack or even an aggressive rush, was a matter of life or death for her whether or not she was badly bitten but because of the possible consequences for her leg. She was not able to run away so I was forced to stand my ground and if I had to use force to prevent her being injured I would. I am not talking about running across the street to bash or beat a dog ambling along besides it's owner, but about taking the neccesary steps to protect mine and if that equates in your mind to "all kinds of crazy", on high alert and panic stations and ignorant, then I guess I am. But my dog is as safe as it can be whilst others persist in breaking the law. Sorry I didn't realise you had a dog who had just had surgery, its hard to know what to suggest as I realise you have to walk your dog to get her hip functioning, that feeling of vulnerability must be overwhelming, it could be a matter of finding a safe place for her to exercise, after the dog attack I had, I started walking my dog in a park in a nearby town that is used by the Guide dog trainers, I'm fairly certain its safe there because they seem to have cleaned up any off leashers, with threats of fines. It was the only place I felt safe, its where I go if I've had a set back, been rushed by a dog near home for instance. I guess its too much to hope you'd have somewhere like that near you. Is there no one you know that has any fenced land thats dog free, that you could use? You could always walk her on a main road, they are usually relatively safe, or failing that have you another person that can go with you to run interference if any dogs rush you, I know lots of dog walkers that go in groups for protection. I use a spray called Spray Shield that I got online from Animalcare Australia, its a citronella spray thats made as a dog deterrent, I've found it very useful, its harmless to dogs BTW but they don't like it much. What I do if a dog rushes me is turn towards it, don't keep walking or it will chase you, mostly when you face it they slow down to gauge what you are about, stand solid, if it still approaches me with that stiff tail going on or that wild wagging, I spray the stuff on the floor right in front of it, it comes out with some force, up to this point in time all of them have stopped in their tracks and turned slowly back to home, one turned and scampered straight back over the fence it had jumped. If your dog is non reactive the standing solid and facing the dog may work on its own, my dog doesn't react she just gets behind me and stands silently. If you have stick doing a sweeping motion in front of you can help too. Although I find it very hard coordinating a stick and a spray can while holding the leash. :) One lone dog is much easier to bluff than two, then just aim at the leader of the two. Its hard to keep your nerve with your heart jumping out of your chest I know. I hope I've not just told you a whole lot of stuff you already know and you aren't about to tell me you've been training dogs for 20 years :laugh: You will never hear from me that I think you are "all kinds of crazy" ignorant or panicky I can assure you, because I can beat most people in the all kinds of crazy behaviour when it comes to any threats to my dog or my kids and grandkids, I'd take a bullet for any of them. I would kill and dance on the grave of any dog that tried to attack them, is that bat shit crazy, if it is I don't know much care, its my version of being a carer for my family. :)

Yes accidents happens. But we don't need to go and drive on the wrong side of the road just because we're confident drivers. If people want to live on the "wild side" they should do so in their own little space and shouldn't be putting the public at risk. Now I know people who've witnessed off-lead dogs tear up an on-lead dogs in front of it's owners. Guts flying everywhere. I've had many close calls myself. Little dogs rushing at us. My quick thinking has saved many off-lead dogs lives. So yes I do scan a head and I am aware of my surroundings. So I'd rather be aware then ignorant. I agree wholeheartedly, aware and alert beats the hell out of panic stricken. I can not personally justify carrying a maglite or a stick or cattle prod no matter how many unfriendly dogs we've come across. It honestly stinks of all kinds of crazy to me and I really have to bow out of this ridiculous thread now. It's infuriating from both sides of the argument, you should not have your dogs ambling free off lead, there's not any real need, however if shit happens and my dog happened to say get out after a break in, or snap his collar or something else happen and some loony beat him or sprayed him I would be beyond furious and as much as you have a right to defend your own, so would I. And I would. Friendly off lead dogs don't bother me in the slightest, but it's law as the majority are troublesome or less than controlled, but from the other side of the fence you really need to assess the situation at hand before losing your mind and whipping out a cattle prod. Perhaps if you really are considering arming yourself because walks in your neighborhood are so traumatic for you, it might be best to think about a dog treadmill or an acreage or something. I really would be more concerned about some unauthorised person carrying a concealed weapon than a dog. Oh and I'll just leave this here too, from www.police.vic.gov.au So what do you suggest us crazies do if a loose dog is attacking our dogs? Imagine I'm walking my 12 year shih tzu and some bigger dog rushes at us and grabs him and shakes him. What is the non-crazy thing to do in your opinion? I guess we're supposed to just stand there and watch our dogs get ripped to pieces. We'd be hysterical and crazy otherwise after all..... Well there doesn't seem to be any way to protect ourselves legally, so we'll have to improvise, just go for it, if you are being attacked you can do whatever you need to protect yourself. Self defence is still legal. I used a golf umbrella enthusiastically, I must have looked like a crazy Mary Poppins and no one even mentioned charging me with anything. Its not illegal to carry an umbrella or a walking stick.

Bloody hell I'm foiled again. :laugh:

It's a phenomenon called 'blame the victim', Trudy. A scenario that lives in the head of the person who blames the victim. Totally and absolutely agree with this comment. I might add its usually bullies who are afflicted with this phenomenon. Keep fighting the good fight Trudy. Thanks everyone for your support. I generally come across two types of off leash dog walkers, the ones with the excitable dogs are the bullies, they seem to be very defensive if anyone objects to their dog getting up close and personal, it's like they've come out to get in a fight, and having their dog off leash works for them every time, they have this superior attitude that shouts "I've got a big dog be careful what you say to me". Then there's the other type who walk passed with their dog like a shadow that doesn't look left or right, those I like, however both types are doing something illegal which may one day be also classed as menacing. Bullies are angry at the world and want to pass on their pain to anyone they come across who seems weaker than them. You love a stereotype don't you. and you love to make inane comments don't you Shows you are reading my posts though, did you know everything you read cannot be unread, be careful I'm worming my way into your brain and you know I'm crazy.

Yes accidents happens. But we don't need to go and drive on the wrong side of the road just because we're confident drivers. If people want to live on the "wild side" they should do so in their own little space and shouldn't be putting the public at risk. Now I know people who've witnessed off-lead dogs tear up an on-lead dogs in front of it's owners. Guts flying everywhere. I've had many close calls myself. Little dogs rushing at us. My quick thinking has saved many off-lead dogs lives. So yes I do scan a head and I am aware of my surroundings. So I'd rather be aware then ignorant. I agree wholeheartedly, aware and alert beats the hell out of panic stricken. I can not personally justify carrying a maglite or a stick or cattle prod no matter how many unfriendly dogs we've come across. It honestly stinks of all kinds of crazy to me and I really have to bow out of this ridiculous thread now. It's infuriating from both sides of the argument, you should not have your dogs ambling free off lead, there's not any real need, however if shit happens and my dog happened to say get out after a break in, or snap his collar or something else happen and some loony beat him or sprayed him I would be beyond furious and as much as you have a right to defend your own, so would I. And I would. Friendly off lead dogs don't bother me in the slightest, but it's law as the majority are troublesome or less than controlled, but from the other side of the fence you really need to assess the situation at hand before losing your mind and whipping out a cattle prod. Perhaps if you really are considering arming yourself because walks in your neighborhood are so traumatic for you, it might be best to think about a dog treadmill or an acreage or something. I really would be more concerned about some unauthorised person carrying a concealed weapon than a dog. Oh and I'll just leave this here too, from www.police.vic.gov.au So what do you suggest us crazies do if a loose dog is attacking our dogs? Imagine I'm walking my 12 year shih tzu and some bigger dog rushes at us and grabs him and shakes him. What is the non-crazy thing to do in your opinion? Yes do tell Steph, we are all ears. What would you do in that circumstance? A concealed telescopic baton (If I can get my hands on one)would be my choice of weapon. Ill happily pay the fine. And since I'm a'crazy' the fine should be a reduced one. ;) ;) Oh and BTW for 12 yrs I lived on a small acreage. I had to fence in a large house paddock for my dogs. Had packs of the neighbourhood's dogs wondering through it looking to attack stock,native animals and my Border collies. Unfortunately there's no escaping idiot dog owners. No escaping them, that appears to be true, mores the pity. Many years ago I had a farm behind my property, a neighbors dog got on to the farm and harrassed the sheep, the farmer followed the dog back to its house and shot it dead in its own back garden, and he got away with it too. Something to do with having farm stock attacked. We were all horrified that he followed the dog and shot it, but now I understand why he did it, now I have more experience of what dogs are capable of. That farmer knew the dog would be back now it had a taste for lambs. BTW the owners of the dog had been warned several times and the farmer had made sure those warnings went on record at the council. How has this got anything to do with a person who takes their dog for a walk and doesn't leash it every second of the walk? I was answering Bozzie's part of this thread on farm stock being attacked, heres the quote "Had packs of the neighbourhood's dogs wondering through it looking to attack stock,native animals and my Border collies". Try to keep up with the story Razor.

It makes life so much easier if all the dogs are on leashes. If its an off leash area, then all bets are off, the enter at your own risk rule applies but in an on leash area we shouldn't have to worry about an loose dog appearing.