Alison03

I don't know if anyone is aware but if you put "dog attacks or leash laws " in google search, our forum and this particular topic comes up, so what we are saying isn't amongst us few people. Also other forums come up with people just like us having the same argument that goes around and around. This argument is world wide. Responsible dog ownership is not going to be a personal decision in the future and whether to abide by the leash laws or not won't be a choice either. There are too many horrific dog attacks going on, the general public will not and are not ignoring that.

Thanks for actually believing me Yonjuro, some on this forum don't. We'll have to agree to disagree on the off leash in on leash area issue. As you say it's the off leash unsocialized dogs that are the problem but any dog attack incident no matter how isolated is another nail in the coffin of dog owners freedom. Socialization is a great idea as is responsible dog ownership and obeying the leash laws.

No - I live in NSW... but let's not kid ourselves that BSL doesn't exist here. If it's large and bull breed, it's viewed with suspicion everywhere... thanks to the media telling us at every opportunity that all bull breed mixes ar Pitbull and want to eat your little dogs and children. You are playing right into the hands of the people who want to nationalise BSL by your actions and reactions stemming from the bad experience you've had... and if that's OK by you, then I don't think we can come to any agreement in this discussion. I love my dogs with every fibre of my being, and they reciprocate in myriad ways... and I will defend my right to love and be loved by my large dogs vociferously. T. Large bull breeds are not viewed with suspicion by me, a dog is a dog, it's the owner that makes them what they are, you walk your dogs on lead, you are not breaking the law. I will not accept that I am playing into the hands of the BSL people, off leash dog walkers and owners who do not keep their dog properly secured are the ones who are giving dog owners in general a bad name. You are doing the right thing, but it's not you they will be looking at its the guy in the park with the uncontrolled off leash dog that bites a child, that's what I want to stop. Not the dog owner who abides by the law. As I said to Razor not everyone owns a dog, some people don't like dogs and have a huge fear of them, they'd like to see them banned totally. I love my dog unreservedly too, I don't want to be legislated out of the local park. We all love our dogs that's why we are here isn't it? People like me aren't the enemy.

Ok I'll make a deal with you I won't repeat myself as you all know where I stand. Lets not forget I've been called crazy and it's even been alluded too that I've made everything up. I had a very traumatic event and because I live in a semi rural community there seems to be quite a few loose dogs. I'm not sure why we attract rushers, my dog is very well behaved on leash, perhaps that makes her weak and a target, can't really do much about that can I? Off leash she mixes very well with friends dogs and at the kennels, where she's described as easy going but doesn't submit readily to other dogs but is not aggressive. I readily admit I die a thousand deaths when I see an off leash dog and imagine all kinds of horrors that never happen. Being made to feel vulnerable makes me cranky, you may have noticed that bit. For the third time, It was me who made the crazy comment and it was in regard to feeling like you needed a weapon to walk your dogs safely, it was widely directed, not solely at you and I said THE ACTION of carrying this out stank of craziness. It seems to suit you to adopt the tag like a pouting child though, so carry on. I don't think anyone alluded you might have invented anything either. For goodness sake I don't care who called me crazy and who didn't. It was Razor who alluded to me having "contributory factors" and that all the dog incidences I report may be because of those factors. That's not a direct quote either, I can't be bothered looking for it. Now lets not get caught up in semantics of who said what to whom. I carry citronella spray only, which is harmless to dogs, not harmless because I say so, harmless because that is whats written on the can. I used to carry an umbrella but I got sick of having my hands full. I'm not looking to hurt anyone's dog despite the fact me and my dog were attacked. For the 100th time ( that may not be the true figure but I'm confident the post counters will be able to tell me what number it is ) I just want a relaxing walk with my dog without being harassed by off leash dogs of any type. Stop taking what I say personally it isn't aimed at you.

Come on now, no need to back away from it now. Take my comments in their most literal terms, however I am willing to state I do find you an arrogant person, that can be directly associated with the stereotypes myself and others have mention for your sheer disregard for the law and the community you live in. One of those other anuses I have state will see you and your disregard to the law and ask themselves why can't they do the same. It is not up to your judgement when and where the law should be obeyed or enforced nor to give yourself or anybody else the privileged that the law does not apply to you. It does not matter You think your dog is good. It does not matter if your dog IS good. It does not even directly have to do with the behavior you or your dog has in public, What if a bunch of self righteous complainers see you and your dog and report you repeatedly to the council who then impose the law of no dogs in business districts causing your cafe to enforce a regulation of no dogs with a distance of a human consumption premises. And it was all done cause they got a few sly pics of your dog loose and the council had enough of the complaints which would have been unwarranted if you had just clipped a loose lead to his collar.?? You seriously think the haters care if your dog has a lead or doesn't have a lead on as it sits under the table at your local cafe? Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to? (True story) Yes Razor dog haters do care if your dog is leashed especially in a cafe, as well as the insurance company of the cafe owner if anything goes wrong. Some people do not like dogs of any type and do not like them being in the front of cafes. Not everyone owns a dog and there are people who would like all dog laws to be very tight indeed. In that cafe you are one incident away from helping them ban all dogs from cafe fronts. If one of those fluffy dogs bites your dog and he reacts guess who will be blamed, the person with the unleashed dog. It's common sense really.

We've gone bloody wrong when the vocal minority scream blue murder to have EVERYONE and their darned dogs legislated against to the point that it's freaking impossible to take them out to socialise properly... FFS, can't anyone SEE that? No - let's just stamp our feet up and down and legislate to the lowest common denominator and royally fark it up for EVRYONE... that'll fix it, right? T. I haven't been to an off leash park (only a beach for small dogs and not many of them) can't dogs socialize there, or is that not what you mean? Just go and look into a designated off-leash park Trudy08... and tell me if you'd like to let your dog run there with all of the others to "socialise" with... The problem with most off-leash parks is that they are few and far between, and likely to be highly populated with dogs who aren't ever allowed out anywhere else... and thusly generally running amok like loons... Yeah - I'd love to take my pup there for some socialisation... NOT! That said - there are a few off-leash parks where there is a reasonably high proportion of genuinely decent owners with well socialised and friendly dogs... but it's a hike to find one like that at a time that fits in around working for a living. Quite frankly, I just keep my dogs at home - more because they are large dogs, 2 of which are bull breed crosses - and hysterical people like yourself make taking my dogs out for a walk a very unpleasant experience... even though they are on lead and very social dogs. T. I don't have breedism...........it's off lead large dogs that scare me. Well it's true Razor I don't care what the breed is, just that it's on the large size and it's off leash. Yeah breeds would be much to specific. You like a much broader sweeping generalisation. That way you can point the finger at even more evil, degenerate, law breakers out for a walk with their dogs. Small dogs are ok are they? Well seeing as you asked some small dogs aren't very friendly with the sniff sniff thing, I learnt that a long time ago but they are easier to deflect if they are off leash, mainly because of their lack of size. A Maltese is the only dog that has ever bitten me but weirdly enough I'm not scared of them at all. Now the evil degenerate law breakers, no I'm fairly certain I have never used that phrase at all. I have said I object to large dogs being off leash in on leash areas, which isn't anything like what you said. How can having a dog off leash be degenerate anyway? It's just breaking the law no more no less.

We've gone bloody wrong when the vocal minority scream blue murder to have EVERYONE and their darned dogs legislated against to the point that it's freaking impossible to take them out to socialise properly... FFS, can't anyone SEE that? No - let's just stamp our feet up and down and legislate to the lowest common denominator and royally fark it up for EVRYONE... that'll fix it, right? T. I haven't been to an off leash park (only a beach for small dogs and not many of them) can't dogs socialize there, or is that not what you mean? Just go and look into a designated off-leash park Trudy08... and tell me if you'd like to let your dog run there with all of the others to "socialise" with... The problem with most off-leash parks is that they are few and far between, and likely to be highly populated with dogs who aren't ever allowed out anywhere else... and thusly generally running amok like loons... Yeah - I'd love to take my pup there for some socialisation... NOT! That said - there are a few off-leash parks where there is a reasonably high proportion of genuinely decent owners with well socialised and friendly dogs... but it's a hike to find one like that at a time that fits in around working for a living. Quite frankly, I just keep my dogs at home - more because they are large dogs, 2 of which are bull breed crosses - and hysterical people like yourself make taking my dogs out for a walk a very unpleasant experience... even though they are on lead and very social dogs. T. I don't have breedism...........it's off lead large dogs that scare me. Well it's true Razor I don't care what the breed is, just that it's on the large size and it's off leash.

Ok I'll make a deal with you I won't repeat myself as you all know where I stand. Lets not forget I've been called crazy and it's even been alluded too that I've made everything up. I had a very traumatic event and because I live in a semi rural community there seems to be quite a few loose dogs. I'm not sure why we attract rushers, my dog is very well behaved on leash, perhaps that makes her weak and a target, can't really do much about that can I? Off leash she mixes very well with friends dogs and at the kennels, where she's described as easy going but doesn't submit readily to other dogs but is not aggressive. I readily admit I die a thousand deaths when I see an off leash dog and imagine all kinds of horrors that never happen. Being made to feel vulnerable makes me cranky, you may have noticed that bit. I have never lost control in a forum thread before - and you have made me do it in this one... congrats... As a large dog owner, I get cranky when people insinuate that my chosen types/breeds of companions are all killers waiting to eat their little Pookie... and that's exactly how your posts come across from my side of the equation. Unfortunately you are not a silent minority - and MY enjoyment and time spent with MY dogs is being legislated against to the point where I don't feel safe taking them out in public in case they sniff the wrong fluffy butt, or look sideways at the wrong person walking their yapping littlie. How the hell is that fair to them or me? T. Are you subject to that BSL stuff that going on in Victoria, surprisingly my view on that is banning a breed will not make any difference to dog attacks, I think they are an easy target. The only interaction I've had with an Am staff type has been positive and he was off leash, I was terrified and he was a perfect gentleman. Also a friend of mine has one and it's very gentle with Bonny and her Maltese. Oh and I apologize for being a pain in the bum, it all comes from fear and anger on my part.

We've gone bloody wrong when the vocal minority scream blue murder to have EVERYONE and their darned dogs legislated against to the point that it's freaking impossible to take them out to socialise properly... FFS, can't anyone SEE that? No - let's just stamp our feet up and down and legislate to the lowest common denominator and royally fark it up for EVRYONE... that'll fix it, right? T. I haven't been to an off leash park (only a beach for small dogs and not many of them) can't dogs socialize there, or is that not what you mean? Just go and look into a designated off-leash park Trudy08... and tell me if you'd like to let your dog run there with all of the others to "socialise" with... The problem with most off-leash parks is that they are few and far between, and likely to be highly populated with dogs who aren't ever allowed out anywhere else... and thusly generally running amok like loons... Yeah - I'd love to take my pup there for some socialisation... NOT! That said - there are a few off-leash parks where there is a reasonably high proportion of genuinely decent owners with well socialised and friendly dogs... but it's a hike to find one like that at a time that fits in around working for a living. Quite frankly, I just keep my dogs at home - more because they are large dogs, 2 of which are bull breed crosses - and hysterical people like yourself make taking my dogs out for a walk a very unpleasant experience... even though they are on lead and very social dogs. T. I was going to try an off leash park a few years ago but my vet said don't go, apparently according to her a lot of people take their dogs there, without walking them first, so they are like a fresh horse out of a field. She told me she was forever patching up dogs from the off leash park. Does that match your experience? I asked if there was a small dog off leash park and she said don't bother it's the same problem with them. The small dog beach I've used you have to walk a fair way to get too before you can unleash your dog, I think that makes all the difference. I've never had a problem there. Hey I don't have a problem with on lead dogs, if I meet an owner of one who asks if my dog wants to have a sniff, I'll do it because I don't think they'd ask if they weren't sure it was ok. I've never had a bad experience with that. I've got the safety I've pulling my dog away if it went bad. I don't have breedism, my dogs first friend was a dog that looked like a big beagle called Oliver. Well behaved on lead dogs are fine it's off leads large dogs that scare me.

Ok I'll make a deal with you I won't repeat myself as you all know where I stand. Lets not forget I've been called crazy and it's even been alluded too that I've made everything up. I had a very traumatic event and because I live in a semi rural community there seems to be quite a few loose dogs. I'm not sure why we attract rushers, my dog is very well behaved on leash, perhaps that makes her weak and a target, can't really do much about that can I? Off leash she mixes very well with friends dogs and at the kennels, where she's described as easy going but doesn't submit readily to other dogs but is not aggressive. I readily admit I die a thousand deaths when I see an off leash dog and imagine all kinds of horrors that never happen. Being made to feel vulnerable makes me cranky, you may have noticed that bit.

Oh dear. You were not around our place. Peter the Border Collie ruled supreme at our end of the street. And Pat, another Border Collie, ruled the other end of the street. God help any dog who trotted by on either of their footpaths. None were on leads.... dogs took themselves for walks. Poor dogs never knew what hit them. Peter's style was to fly thro' the hedge & flatten them at high speed. Our Mad Maltese, Pauline, would start things off. By popping thro' the hedge & shrieking at the passing dog.... like she was being attacked. Just as the dog was wondering where this mad woman had come from.... Peter would come flying thro'. Today.... we, along with Peter & the Crazy Pauline, would be marched straight to jail. And deservedly so. That was no world for the gentle, sensitive tibbies & shelties that we own today. :) Tho' one tibbie, named Angel, beat up a fat Corgi who growled at her when she went to have some water at a Blessing of the Pets. That's right, dear readers, she was not on a leash. Proving even angels might do it. :) I was brought up in a city, so not many dogs around there. The ones that were seemed very docile, no one said "Don't pat my dog" either. My cousin lived in a rural place, totally different there, we were told that working dogs weren't pets so to leave them alone. More big properties with watch dogs too.

We've gone bloody wrong when the vocal minority scream blue murder to have EVERYONE and their darned dogs legislated against to the point that it's freaking impossible to take them out to socialise properly... FFS, can't anyone SEE that? No - let's just stamp our feet up and down and legislate to the lowest common denominator and royally fark it up for EVRYONE... that'll fix it, right? T. I haven't been to an off leash park (only a beach for small dogs and not many of them) can't dogs socialize there, or is that not what you mean?

You obviously feel my last post was aimed at you, it was aimed at everyone who feels its ok for off leash dogs to be walked in on lead areas, if you fit into that description then I guess you are part of my target. I have not picked apart your posts, despite the fact you seem to have picked apart mine earlier on in his thread, and called me contradictory, which is a lot nicer than when someone on this forum called me crazy, but to be honest none of those labels really bothers me. What I'm attempting to point out is that the very people you support, could be the very people who help stricter dog laws be put in to place, its very simple for you to be part of those restrictive laws all you have to do is NOTHING. Let all the perfect off leash dogs sail passed you and say nothing, or you could go one step worse and congratulate the owners but if you really want to help society, you could compliment the owner and say "You do realise this is an on leash area don't you, I wouldn't want you to be fined". By doing nothing you are enabling the off leashers to take away our (and your ) freedom to walk our dogs. It will happen, google dog attacks and new dog laws, I am not making this all up, it will affect us all. Its not to late if everyone abides by the current law and makes sure our dogs are kept secure and on leashes where required and that stops most of the dog attacks it can only help us stay with the law we have. I'm not attacking you I just think there may be a downside to walking off leash dogs that may not have occurred to you. I know this is a small forum and does not reach a lot of people but its been worked out if you tell one person, and that one person tells another the word will spread like wild fire. In political circles its accepted that if one person writes a letter or an email to an MP on a subject that means 500 people feel the same way, which in their eyes is 500 votes. Taking that a step further if a group get together to try to stop dog attacks and get new laws made that make parks no dog allowed, we are all sunk. Off lead dogs don't just piss off other people with dogs, its not just dog walkers that get attacked. If you see an off leash walker, ringing the police won't help or the council, they want a name and address, just reminding nicely that this is an on lead area puts the thought in their heads that people are watching and caring what they do, they may tell you to F off but they still heard you, words that are said or written that you know apply to you are never forgotten, human beings are very susceptible to suggestion. All the off leash walkers I've encountered I've said very nicely (apart from the ones with scary dogs, I haven't been too nice then) "Are you aware this is an off leash area" and I haven't seen them since. They don't know who I am, perhaps I work for the local council, what do you think? You can't make people care about the law but they do care about being fined. Steph don't take this personally its not meant that way. You quoted me - if you were not responding to me, then don't quote me.. Edited to add - in my opinion, there isn't a downside to walking a well trained/behaved dog off lead. I wouldn't do it but I have seen a few and to be honest, they are a non issue. You don't have to lecture me on the problems of outdated dog laws - I have been a dog owner and a member of this forum long enough to know what is and isn't OK.. So you spend your spare time making sure all the off lead dog walkers in your area are aware it is an on lead area or they can be fined - good for you.. I have much better things to do with my time - like enjoy my walk with my dog, instead of worrying about something that is of no concern to me (remember I am talking about well behaved/trained dogs who don't run off to meet me and my dog - they simply go about their walk like I do).. If the dog was off lead, menacing and appearing dangerous - it probably wouldn't have an owner with it in my neck of the woods. So in this case, I would put a call in to our local ranger and let them know there is an off lead dog at such and such location. Now that owner should be fined.. Not the one, causing nobody any harm, minding his own business.. No wonder we can't take our dogs anywhere anymore.. If you have aren't too concerned for you dog. I'm happy for you. But some other people on the forum are more vulnerable and have more fragile dogs due to age, illness, size etc. SO I do see why they would be concerned. I've had a dog that was very capable of defending herself. She could easily kill smaller dogs if she wanted to. But breaking up a fight is just an inconvenience on my walk. Nobody wants to deal with this stuff every time they duck out for a walk. I just think we shouldn't have to go out of our way to make things more convenient for people who want their dogs to be "free range". Why some people believe they deserve special rights? I don't know. I'd like to see what happens if there are NO leash laws- may the best dog win... losers can R.I.P. If there were no leash laws no one would leave their houses, imagine us all walking off leash, all those looney dogs that are normally on leashes running free, actually I see your point, we could have no leashes every alternate week, I'd just stay at home while you all battled it out. It would certainly thin out the herd. I guess there might be some wannabe off leashers out there that might think they'd like to have a crack at practicing their off leash style. How ridiculous. You have made some reasonable comments somewhere in the middle of your 50 odd post diatribe, but now this is just getting silly. It is not a battleground outside everyones door. I have made some reasonable comments have I, I've been called crazy and contradictory you must be confusing me with someone else. Everyone else is being ridiculous I thought I'd join in. A cartoon of a dead horse springs to mind, oh yes that was you, speaking of ridiculous. We've got one bloke on here romanticizing his childhood with wonderful even tempered dogs, a positive utopia. A few other people having no problems with off leash dogs, so I thought that if off leash walking is ok for some, then why not for everyone. Who are we to judge who is proficient at walking off leash and who isn't. Are you familiar with the term flogging a dead horse? :) ....and for what it's worth I am an on-lead in on-lead areas and off-lead in off-lead areas dog person. Yes I am and I know what you meant and you could be right. If you are an on lead person etc we'll shake hands and call it a draw. :laugh:

Sorry double post

I don't remember the dog attacks we have now happening when I was a kid either, especially not the really serious ones. Where have we gone wrong?

Who's said they don't want their dogs interacting with others? Yes, you did say only 'some'. :) I posted earlier that I welcomed the opportunity to gently socialise the dogs with those of other reasonable people we met on our walks (in an on-leash by-law area). We tend to look at the past with rose-coloured glasses. Our own dogs way back then.... kelpie-types & border collies .... had a pretty free rein. With results that didn't worry people too much then, but would now! Life generally was much simpler.... which is your point. Now populations are greater, denser urban living, even a wider range of dog types, lifestyle habits are different (dogs took themselves for a walk!). Changing times & conditions. So different rules to live by. I think it's become more of a case of who's going to sue for whatever "transgression" nowadays mita... too many "rights", and not enough "responsibilities" nowadays... and I really don't like what we are doing to our society at all - but that's a different topic, isn't it? *grin* T. The whole litigation culture we live in now and the idea that no one is personally responsible for their actions is very scary, makes me wonder what life will be like for our grandkids.

You obviously feel my last post was aimed at you, it was aimed at everyone who feels its ok for off leash dogs to be walked in on lead areas, if you fit into that description then I guess you are part of my target. I have not picked apart your posts, despite the fact you seem to have picked apart mine earlier on in his thread, and called me contradictory, which is a lot nicer than when someone on this forum called me crazy, but to be honest none of those labels really bothers me. What I'm attempting to point out is that the very people you support, could be the very people who help stricter dog laws be put in to place, its very simple for you to be part of those restrictive laws all you have to do is NOTHING. Let all the perfect off leash dogs sail passed you and say nothing, or you could go one step worse and congratulate the owners but if you really want to help society, you could compliment the owner and say "You do realise this is an on leash area don't you, I wouldn't want you to be fined". By doing nothing you are enabling the off leashers to take away our (and your ) freedom to walk our dogs. It will happen, google dog attacks and new dog laws, I am not making this all up, it will affect us all. Its not to late if everyone abides by the current law and makes sure our dogs are kept secure and on leashes where required and that stops most of the dog attacks it can only help us stay with the law we have. I'm not attacking you I just think there may be a downside to walking off leash dogs that may not have occurred to you. I know this is a small forum and does not reach a lot of people but its been worked out if you tell one person, and that one person tells another the word will spread like wild fire. In political circles its accepted that if one person writes a letter or an email to an MP on a subject that means 500 people feel the same way, which in their eyes is 500 votes. Taking that a step further if a group get together to try to stop dog attacks and get new laws made that make parks no dog allowed, we are all sunk. Off lead dogs don't just piss off other people with dogs, its not just dog walkers that get attacked. If you see an off leash walker, ringing the police won't help or the council, they want a name and address, just reminding nicely that this is an on lead area puts the thought in their heads that people are watching and caring what they do, they may tell you to F off but they still heard you, words that are said or written that you know apply to you are never forgotten, human beings are very susceptible to suggestion. All the off leash walkers I've encountered I've said very nicely (apart from the ones with scary dogs, I haven't been too nice then) "Are you aware this is an off leash area" and I haven't seen them since. They don't know who I am, perhaps I work for the local council, what do you think? You can't make people care about the law but they do care about being fined. Steph don't take this personally its not meant that way. You quoted me - if you were not responding to me, then don't quote me.. Edited to add - in my opinion, there isn't a downside to walking a well trained/behaved dog off lead. I wouldn't do it but I have seen a few and to be honest, they are a non issue. You don't have to lecture me on the problems of outdated dog laws - I have been a dog owner and a member of this forum long enough to know what is and isn't OK.. So you spend your spare time making sure all the off lead dog walkers in your area are aware it is an on lead area or they can be fined - good for you.. I have much better things to do with my time - like enjoy my walk with my dog, instead of worrying about something that is of no concern to me (remember I am talking about well behaved/trained dogs who don't run off to meet me and my dog - they simply go about their walk like I do).. If the dog was off lead, menacing and appearing dangerous - it probably wouldn't have an owner with it in my neck of the woods. So in this case, I would put a call in to our local ranger and let them know there is an off lead dog at such and such location. Now that owner should be fined.. Not the one, causing nobody any harm, minding his own business.. No wonder we can't take our dogs anywhere anymore.. If you have aren't too concerned for you dog. I'm happy for you. But some other people on the forum are more vulnerable and have more fragile dogs due to age, illness, size etc. SO I do see why they would be concerned. I've had a dog that was very capable of defending herself. She could easily kill smaller dogs if she wanted to. But breaking up a fight is just an inconvenience on my walk. Nobody wants to deal with this stuff every time they duck out for a walk. I just think we shouldn't have to go out of our way to make things more convenient for people who want their dogs to be "free range". Why some people believe they deserve special rights? I don't know. I'd like to see what happens if there are NO leash laws- may the best dog win... losers can R.I.P. If there were no leash laws no one would leave their houses, imagine us all walking off leash, all those looney dogs that are normally on leashes running free, actually I see your point, we could have no leashes every alternate week, I'd just stay at home while you all battled it out. It would certainly thin out the herd. I guess there might be some wannabe off leashers out there that might think they'd like to have a crack at practicing their off leash style. How ridiculous. You have made some reasonable comments somewhere in the middle of your 50 odd post diatribe, but now this is just getting silly. It is not a battleground outside everyones door. I have made some reasonable comments have I, I've been called crazy and contradictory you must be confusing me with someone else. Everyone else is being ridiculous I thought I'd join in. A cartoon of a dead horse springs to mind, oh yes that was you, speaking of ridiculous. We've got one bloke on here romanticizing his childhood with wonderful even tempered dogs, a positive utopia. A few other people having no problems with off leash dogs, so I thought that if off leash walking is ok for some, then why not for everyone. Who are we to judge who is proficient at walking off leash and who isn't.

You obviously feel my last post was aimed at you, it was aimed at everyone who feels its ok for off leash dogs to be walked in on lead areas, if you fit into that description then I guess you are part of my target. I have not picked apart your posts, despite the fact you seem to have picked apart mine earlier on in his thread, and called me contradictory, which is a lot nicer than when someone on this forum called me crazy, but to be honest none of those labels really bothers me. What I'm attempting to point out is that the very people you support, could be the very people who help stricter dog laws be put in to place, its very simple for you to be part of those restrictive laws all you have to do is NOTHING. Let all the perfect off leash dogs sail passed you and say nothing, or you could go one step worse and congratulate the owners but if you really want to help society, you could compliment the owner and say "You do realise this is an on leash area don't you, I wouldn't want you to be fined". By doing nothing you are enabling the off leashers to take away our (and your ) freedom to walk our dogs. It will happen, google dog attacks and new dog laws, I am not making this all up, it will affect us all. Its not to late if everyone abides by the current law and makes sure our dogs are kept secure and on leashes where required and that stops most of the dog attacks it can only help us stay with the law we have. I'm not attacking you I just think there may be a downside to walking off leash dogs that may not have occurred to you. I know this is a small forum and does not reach a lot of people but its been worked out if you tell one person, and that one person tells another the word will spread like wild fire. In political circles its accepted that if one person writes a letter or an email to an MP on a subject that means 500 people feel the same way, which in their eyes is 500 votes. Taking that a step further if a group get together to try to stop dog attacks and get new laws made that make parks no dog allowed, we are all sunk. Off lead dogs don't just piss off other people with dogs, its not just dog walkers that get attacked. If you see an off leash walker, ringing the police won't help or the council, they want a name and address, just reminding nicely that this is an on lead area puts the thought in their heads that people are watching and caring what they do, they may tell you to F off but they still heard you, words that are said or written that you know apply to you are never forgotten, human beings are very susceptible to suggestion. All the off leash walkers I've encountered I've said very nicely (apart from the ones with scary dogs, I haven't been too nice then) "Are you aware this is an off leash area" and I haven't seen them since. They don't know who I am, perhaps I work for the local council, what do you think? You can't make people care about the law but they do care about being fined. Steph don't take this personally its not meant that way. You quoted me - if you were not responding to me, then don't quote me.. Edited to add - in my opinion, there isn't a downside to walking a well trained/behaved dog off lead. I wouldn't do it but I have seen a few and to be honest, they are a non issue. You don't have to lecture me on the problems of outdated dog laws - I have been a dog owner and a member of this forum long enough to know what is and isn't OK.. So you spend your spare time making sure all the off lead dog walkers in your area are aware it is an on lead area or they can be fined - good for you.. I have much better things to do with my time - like enjoy my walk with my dog, instead of worrying about something that is of no concern to me (remember I am talking about well behaved/trained dogs who don't run off to meet me and my dog - they simply go about their walk like I do).. If the dog was off lead, menacing and appearing dangerous - it probably wouldn't have an owner with it in my neck of the woods. So in this case, I would put a call in to our local ranger and let them know there is an off lead dog at such and such location. Now that owner should be fined.. Not the one, causing nobody any harm, minding his own business.. No wonder we can't take our dogs anywhere anymore.. If you have aren't too concerned for you dog. I'm happy for you. But some other people on the forum are more vulnerable and have more fragile dogs due to age, illness, size etc. SO I do see why they would be concerned. I've had a dog that was very capable of defending herself. She could easily kill smaller dogs if she wanted to. But breaking up a fight is just an inconvenience on my walk. Nobody wants to deal with this stuff every time they duck out for a walk. I just think we shouldn't have to go out of our way to make things more convenient for people who want their dogs to be "free range". Why some people believe they deserve special rights? I don't know. I'd like to see what happens if there are NO leash laws- may the best dog win... losers can R.I.P. If there were no leash laws no one would leave their houses, imagine us all walking off leash, all those looney dogs that are normally on leashes running free, actually I see your point, we could have no leashes every alternate week, I'd just stay at home while you all battled it out. It would certainly thin out the herd. I guess there might be some wannabe off leashers out there that might think they'd like to have a crack at practicing their off leash style.

You'll have to excuse me I need to vomit.

You obviously feel my last post was aimed at you, it was aimed at everyone who feels its ok for off leash dogs to be walked in on lead areas, if you fit into that description then I guess you are part of my target. I have not picked apart your posts, despite the fact you seem to have picked apart mine earlier on in his thread, and called me contradictory, which is a lot nicer than when someone on this forum called me crazy, but to be honest none of those labels really bothers me. What I'm attempting to point out is that the very people you support, could be the very people who help stricter dog laws be put in to place, its very simple for you to be part of those restrictive laws all you have to do is NOTHING. Let all the perfect off leash dogs sail passed you and say nothing, or you could go one step worse and congratulate the owners but if you really want to help society, you could compliment the owner and say "You do realise this is an on leash area don't you, I wouldn't want you to be fined". By doing nothing you are enabling the off leashers to take away our (and your ) freedom to walk our dogs. It will happen, google dog attacks and new dog laws, I am not making this all up, it will affect us all. Its not to late if everyone abides by the current law and makes sure our dogs are kept secure and on leashes where required and that stops most of the dog attacks it can only help us stay with the law we have. I'm not attacking you I just think there may be a downside to walking off leash dogs that may not have occurred to you. I know this is a small forum and does not reach a lot of people but its been worked out if you tell one person, and that one person tells another the word will spread like wild fire. In political circles its accepted that if one person writes a letter or an email to an MP on a subject that means 500 people feel the same way, which in their eyes is 500 votes. Taking that a step further if a group get together to try to stop dog attacks and get new laws made that make parks no dog allowed, we are all sunk. Off lead dogs don't just piss off other people with dogs, its not just dog walkers that get attacked. If you see an off leash walker, ringing the police won't help or the council, they want a name and address, just reminding nicely that this is an on lead area puts the thought in their heads that people are watching and caring what they do, they may tell you to F off but they still heard you, words that are said or written that you know apply to you are never forgotten, human beings are very susceptible to suggestion. All the off leash walkers I've encountered I've said very nicely (apart from the ones with scary dogs, I haven't been too nice then) "Are you aware this is an off leash area" and I haven't seen them since. They don't know who I am, perhaps I work for the local council, what do you think? You can't make people care about the law but they do care about being fined. Steph don't take this personally its not meant that way. You quoted me - if you were not responding to me, then don't quote me.. Edited to add - in my opinion, there isn't a downside to walking a well trained/behaved dog off lead. I wouldn't do it but I have seen a few and to be honest, they are a non issue. You don't have to lecture me on the problems of outdated dog laws - I have been a dog owner and a member of this forum long enough to know what is and isn't OK.. So you spend your spare time making sure all the off lead dog walkers in your area are aware it is an on lead area or they can be fined - good for you.. I have much better things to do with my time - like enjoy my walk with my dog, instead of worrying about something that is of no concern to me (remember I am talking about well behaved/trained dogs who don't run off to meet me and my dog - they simply go about their walk like I do).. If the dog was off lead, menacing and appearing dangerous - it probably wouldn't have an owner with it in my neck of the woods. So in this case, I would put a call in to our local ranger and let them know there is an off lead dog at such and such location. Now that owner should be fined.. Not the one, causing nobody any harm, minding his own business.. No wonder we can't take our dogs anywhere anymore.. I'm at work at the moment, so I haven't had chance to read every post minutely , my apologies if I quoted you or misquoted you. Its not my intention to start a fight, we obviously both feel very strongly in very different directions, I was attempting to share my opinion and fears with you, it was not my intention to lecture you. I see all off lead dogs as a potential problem, well behaved or not and I don't seem to be alone in my opinion as you aren't alone in yours. The law however is on my side, can all those animal control people who are consulted about dog laws be wrong about dog behaviour? I have a close family friend who is a doctor and she no longer walks her dogs (two shepherds) because of some of the injuries to her patients from off leash dogs. This weekend she treated a boy who had been riding his horse, the horse was attacked by two border collies who were being walked off leash by the owner, apparently they had never seen a horse before and freaked out when they came face to face with one, perhaps saw it as a large threat to the owner, the boy was thrown from the horse, the dogs evaded capture and were very worked up, unfortunately the mother of the boy arrived to see her son and she accidentally ran over one of the dogs that was still attempting to get to the horse. It was a nightmare scene, an injured boy, a dying dog, the other dog trying to get to the horse, the dog owner in shock kept saying "They've never seen a horse before". Very sad and very preventable. We all know who will get the blame. BTW I noticed I got your name wrong on my last post, my apologies for that too, I've got a borderline migraine today.

Wheres that 'like' button? Don't tempt me!!!

Ummmm....... No. So even though your actions could lead to dogs being banned altogether because of owners breaking the law you don't care? It's not just rushing at other dogs, it's the whole I'll do what i want attitude that affects us all. That's a gross over exaggeration. Really, I remember when we didn't have as many restrictions on where we could take dogs, laws are getting tougher. What do you think council will do if they get complaints about off lead dogs? Do you think they'll spend money on extra staff to police the area or do you think they'll just do what's easiest and ban the dogs. There is a lot of anti-dog sentiment out there due to selfish owners. I just don't understand why you are proud of breaking the law. Reverend they must not have TV or read the newspapers, so they don't know about some of the terrible things dogs have done or perhaps they think its all made up by crazy people like us, in the end it doesn't matter whether they believe the dog attack stories or not, the pollies believe it and those poor folks in Vic who have had their dogs confiscated know the pollies believe it because they are being punished because of those attacks. None is so blind as he/she who will not see.

You obviously feel my last post was aimed at you, it was aimed at everyone who feels its ok for off leash dogs to be walked in on lead areas, if you fit into that description then I guess you are part of my target. I have not picked apart your posts, despite the fact you seem to have picked apart mine earlier on in his thread, and called me contradictory, which is a lot nicer than when someone on this forum called me crazy, but to be honest none of those labels really bothers me. What I'm attempting to point out is that the very people you support, could be the very people who help stricter dog laws be put in to place, its very simple for you to be part of those restrictive laws all you have to do is NOTHING. Let all the perfect off leash dogs sail passed you and say nothing, or you could go one step worse and congratulate the owners but if you really want to help society, you could compliment the owner and say "You do realise this is an on leash area don't you, I wouldn't want you to be fined". By doing nothing you are enabling the off leashers to take away our (and your ) freedom to walk our dogs. It will happen, google dog attacks and new dog laws, I am not making this all up, it will affect us all. Its not to late if everyone abides by the current law and makes sure our dogs are kept secure and on leashes where required and that stops most of the dog attacks it can only help us stay with the law we have. I'm not attacking you I just think there may be a downside to walking off leash dogs that may not have occurred to you. I know this is a small forum and does not reach a lot of people but its been worked out if you tell one person, and that one person tells another the word will spread like wild fire. In political circles its accepted that if one person writes a letter or an email to an MP on a subject that means 500 people feel the same way, which in their eyes is 500 votes. Taking that a step further if a group get together to try to stop dog attacks and get new laws made that make parks no dog allowed, we are all sunk. Off lead dogs don't just piss off other people with dogs, its not just dog walkers that get attacked. If you see an off leash walker, ringing the police won't help or the council, they want a name and address, just reminding nicely that this is an on lead area puts the thought in their heads that people are watching and caring what they do, they may tell you to F off but they still heard you, words that are said or written that you know apply to you are never forgotten, human beings are very susceptible to suggestion. All the off leash walkers I've encountered I've said very nicely (apart from the ones with scary dogs, I haven't been too nice then) "Are you aware this is an off leash area" and I haven't seen them since. They don't know who I am, perhaps I work for the local council, what do you think? You can't make people care about the law but they do care about being fined. Staffy don't take this personally its not meant that way.

Yes there are always people out there who are less considerate of others. Doesn't mean we need ignore it. Doesn't mean we need to down-size our lives and to give other people special treatment. Sometimes all it take is one person to stand up to an injustice to make a difference. Not only is it great for our own sake. You never know, you may have made a difference in other peoples lives as well. Dobbing in a suspected drug house could make a difference. Calling the police about a suspected domestic violence case could help someone. Calling the ranger about an off-lead dog harassing passing people can save someone. You are so right. The power of one has changed the world we live in over and over, it only takes one person to stand up and say "No I don't agree", people have been killed for saying it but there is something in human beings that makes another person stand up in their place, that something makes us what we are, some people on this forum may think the world is a tangled mess of law breakers and the morally redundant, what they may not realize is that's its always been that way and in fact a hell of a lot worse. Laws are made and broken, we've all broken the law on occasion, no one really cares if you park in the wrong spot but when the law is broken and someone gets hurt or killed, a lot of people scream "This is not right, it's not good enough" then the law is changed and made stricter. Used to be if you exceeded the speed limit a police car might pull you up, but people kept speeding, now we have speed cameras everywhere. People still speed but now we all get punished for it. You may think the law doesn't apply to you, that it's not really a serious law, so who cares, but if the dog attacks that have been happening keep on occurring, the law will be changed and for the worse, all dog owners will be punished and restricted, you think that won't affect you, ask the dog owners who are fighting for the lives of their family dogs in Victoria because their dog happens to resemble a pit bull type. That was brought into play because of attacks by bull type dogs that have kept on happening. Some of the owners of the bull types didn't care who got hurt, they didn't bother adequately locking them in or keeping them on lead, they still don't care in WA and they are about to change their dog laws too, dog owners really care when their dogs get confiscated, now because of those few owners all the other owners are being made to suffer, not to mention their dogs. So next time you see a perfectly controlled off leash dog in an on lead area instead of thinking "That doesn't bother me at all" think if that dog attacks someone (say the grandchild of a judge or a politician), the law will be changed and this park could be made "No dogs allowed". What other people do can affect us directly. If you haven't realized that, well you just aren't paying attention. In this world of rules and regulations "Don't care is made to care".

Oh really what if that perfectly controlled off lead dog suddenly wigged out and grabbed your dog by the throat, would you think you were hallucinating or would you stand and watch because you know it will be just a glitch in another wise perfectly controlled dog. Seriously what would you do to make that dog let go of your dog. Considering we've just been told by several people on this forum that morals and laws don't matter.