Lasareina

oooh goof luck fluffy! The trainers are lovely and seem very knowledgeable. We had our second class on Tuesday and tried out the check chain instead. I think it was a better choice as we were able to pay more attention to the class and keep up without the major distraction of fighting the halti. I did find myself getting a bit frustrated as Hunter is so much more obedient and focussed at home then in the classes. We had one dog on our left who kept howling and barking to its mate down the other end of the line, and the most gorgeous fluffy husky next to us on the other side that Hunter just wanted to cuddle with haha. Plus my OH was on the sideline watching as Juno wasn't able to go again this week, and Hunter kept half an eye on him the whole time. Clearing we need to work on focus!

Thanks Westiemum... yes her pain relief will also wear off after 24 hours so I guess that might make her a bit mopey as well

Glad to hear Buzz is doing well :) The poor little girls get a bit of a bum wrap hey... they are the ones that have to put up with going in season, risks of pregnancy/birth AND the more invasive desex operation ... sounds like its a mans world in the dog world too :laugh:

Thank you HW, Cassie and Raineth .. I was starting to think I was speaking in a different language!

yes when we are home she will be with us for sure... don't think I could convince my boss to let me bring her to work It seems likeHunter is the one we have to watch with the licking...Juno hasn't shown any interest in messing with the stitches at all yet. Give her time I suppose :laugh:

Juno seems to be doing very well this morning... almost seemed like her normal self. She is confined in the laundry today so we doesn't run around like a loon all day. We had a collar on her originally, although the vet said she didn't think it was really necessary ... Juno kept dragging it along the ground as she was walking because she was still dopey and waling with her head held low Stitches looked good this morning. I hope your pug did well Andisa?

This was said after the decision had been made to abort the accidental pregnancy, and probably spay. Perhaps I should have said... " *sheepish face* I guess I'm like everyone else in thinking that mine are the best haha" .... I was actually admitting that I was like a lot of uninformed / inexperience owners who state this as one of the main reasons they want a litter from their dogs. This idea had been corrected after reading a lot of information on the forum and getting advice from others. At least quote the full statement - I was answering someone's question about whether I would meet all the costs and ensure puppies were all vaccinated, microchipped etc etc If I did have the litter. Just because I'm not registered doesn't mean I don't give a rats a*s about the health and safety of any pups I was responsible for. Again, this was a hypothetical question anyway as we were not intending on having the litter.

This is the point that I was saying I had an objection to. Please read the parts of my post where I clearly state that I am not saying that registered breeders are charging too much, and where I clearly say I am not trying to question the importance of what the breeders ares trying to achieve or argue whether people should or shouldn't buy from registered breeders. If you decide down the track that you want to breed pedigreed SBTs, my guess is that your thoughts will change. You'll see spending that money as an investment in a dog that's a good representative of the breed standard and you'll pay it to get a pup from health tested parents that's been whelped and raised to the best of the breeder's ability. You'll look at pups tht most people think are cuteness overload with eyes that see conformation faults that may lead to ongoing soundness problems and you'll want none of that. And when the time comes for you to sell your thoughtfully bred pups, you'll put a price on them that reflects the time and effort you went into selecting your breeding stock, whelping the litter and raising it with optimum care. Sometimes, just sometimes with dogs you do get what you paid for - or didn't in the case of dogs with completely preventable health issues. Good breeders don't need to hold a gun to anyone's head to get the prices they charge. I don't see anyone suggesting that those who don't want to pay that sort of money should have to either. But consider for a moment what's paying for the forum so many people turn to for advice on raising their pups. Seems to me that some people aren't fully aware of how much registered dog breeders contribute to providing the informaton so many people gain here. "I'd never pay that for a pup" you say. But here you are, benefiting from those who do. Extolling the benefits of bargain hunting doesn't sit so well with me in that regard. I'm not suggesting that all dog owners shouldn't be here and share in the wealth of knowledge this forum provides. But perhaps a little more respect for the aims of this forum and what it seeks to promote is called for. If your view is that there's no way in future you'd buy an ANKC registered pup (or a rescue), don't expect that to sit well with everyone. For some of us, cost is not the issue that drives what we buy and IMO the more you learn about dogs, the more you'll value what a responsibly bred pedigreed pup means. FYI, I've never paid more than $800 for a pedigreed pup. The last one was free. :) The "bargain" comment was an attempt at a lighthearted way of highlighting my upbringing - I was not trying to say that I equate my much loved pups with a bargain. I'm not sure where you got the impression that "there's no way I would ever buy an ANKC registered pup" - that's not what I was saying and it is not what I think... down the track I would actually love to become more involved in the dog world, learn more and maybe eventually moved down the track of becoming a registered breeder. I wasn't really meaning to debate the merits of whether or not everyone should but a registered pedigree puppy - just saying that if people choose NOT to, it doesn't automatically mean they will be any less of an attentive and caring owner. Just as someone who does buy a pedigree puppy isn't automatically going to be a great owner. The point I was trying to make is that people should be judged on their actions, not from some overarching generalisation. I think I read somewhere that registered pedigree breeders account for only about 10 - 20% of Australian dogs. Does this mean that the other 80 - 90% of dog owners can be automatically catergorised as "“low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble."?? I probably have the exact percentage wrong but you can see what I mean. I tried very hard NOT to offend anyone, as I know the majority of people on this forum are either registered breeders or own registered dogs. I really don't see how I was disrespectful. I was simply questioning this one assumption. Forums are designed for discussion and communication, so i thought that would be allowed That conformation you say isn't important is very important an any dog. Over 90% of dogs us breeders breed are for the pet home, but we want them to have the best possible dog they can get, equally as important to a pup retained for breeding and or showing. A dog's conformation helps stabilize a dog running full pelt around a yard/beach. It serves the dog in old age when his bones and joint are getting old his structure and conformation may make it that bit more bearable. As a byb what advice do you sell your puppies with what help that puppy settle in their new home, will you offer the home when they are having a few issues more importantly what are you doing to do when the pup you sell is very very sick with something you could have prevented, and that family is loosing their baby. Do you care what sort of home you pup the child of you furkids id going to, what happens if those people change their minds will you take it back or let it go to the pound or past on to another unknown environment, what if the puppy you bred turns on it's family will you take responsibility for now checking the temperaments? Please think about this and not breed your dogs, love them raise them and grow old with them but don't breed them. It's not fair on your dogs or the puppy owners if something goes wrong. I am not a back yard breeder , I have never had a litter of pups, and Juno is now desexed so I won't be in the future either. A couple of other user has labelled me this because I dared to ask advice about what to do in the case of an accidental mating which occurred due to my inexperience with owning entire dogs. I admitted I had made a mistake,followed the advice that I got, Juno is now spayed, there will be no pups. I was saying NOT that conformation is unimportant - I was trying to show that I understand the advantages of owning a pedigree pup over a non pedigree pup in this area. That I understood that you had more chance of something going wrong if you chose a non pedigree pup. I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE ALL SAYING ABOUT THE ADVANTAGES OF BUYING A PEDIGREE PUP. I AM NOT SAYING THAT BUYING A NON PEDIGREE PUP IS BETTER. I AM NOT QUESTIONING THE AMOUNT BREEDERS CHARGE FOR THEIR PUPS - after reading the OP I would actually expect the price to be higher. I had one point that I was trying to debate - that when someone buys a non pedigree puppy at a lower cost then they can automatically be classified as a bad owner, who won't provide for the dogs needs, and who is likely to dump the dog at the first hurdle. That was all I was trying to say. Everything else in the post was to illustrate an example of why this assumption can be incorrect, and in an attempt (obviously failed) to ensure so one got offended, or misconstrued my comment. No body has actually said anything about the original point that I was trying to make... I am going to assume that they therefore agree that this assumption is not always true, and count that as a win. :laugh:

KJJ - yes there are some lovely supportive people on here... it is the only reason I am still frequenting the forum. Juno has slept ever since we got home from the vets today... I hope she is ok, She certainly looked very miserable when I collected her

I would actually love to go see a dog show... I wouldn't even know where to go. Some of the responses on here have made me feel quite upset and depressed however and if that is a demonstration of what I could expect if I did ever dare to try and venture into the world of shows etc then maybe its better if I just leave well enough alone and go back to being an ignorant but happy "average" pet owner without trying to "improve" myself. I am not referring to you HW - I understand you are trying to help.

Haredown Whippets - if we did ever go down the path of looking into becoming a breeder, it would be well into the future. When we were financially secure. Not after having just taken on our first mortgage, and earning about 45k a year. Again, I wasn't suggesting that pedigree dogs are overpriced.. I was suggesting that in our financial position it wasn't a viable option. I thought I made that clear with my very first statement.

The bargain comment was meant as a lighthearted comment on my upbringing - not on my attitude to the purchase of my puppies. I simply meant that I have been brought up in a manner that spending that much money is a big deal. I should have know this would not have been read in the way I meant it. Rebanne, I think you are just being nasty now. We were considering breeding our much loved pets, together, years down the track because we thought they are excellent family pets which would produce beautiful puppies. Then I joined this forum, read a lot of information, learnt a lot, and began to question this intention. I have now come to understand, and accept why people on this forum are against unregistered breeding. Juno is now desexed. To suggest that I would go down the street and select a random dog to replace Juno with is ridiculous and insulting. The whole point of my original post in this thread has been completely ignored. Did any of you actually read where I tried to clarify some of the points other users objected to??

which you were going breed she doesn't want to be a registered breeder, she wants to be a byb. she's stated that several times. I've missed that info She's on the wrong forum them Actually Juno just got back from being desexed today, so that would be hard.

This is the point that I was saying I had an objection to. Please read the parts of my post where I clearly state that I am not saying that registered breeders are charging too much, and where I clearly say I am not trying to question the importance of what the breeders ares trying to achieve or argue whether people should or shouldn't buy from registered breeders. If you decide down the track that you want to breed pedigreed SBTs, my guess is that your thoughts will change. You'll see spending that money as an investment in a dog that's a good representative of the breed standard and you'll pay it to get a pup from health tested parents that's been whelped and raised to the best of the breeder's ability. You'll look at pups tht most people think are cuteness overload with eyes that see conformation faults that may lead to ongoing soundness problems and you'll want none of that. And when the time comes for you to sell your thoughtfully bred pups, you'll put a price on them that reflects the time and effort you went into selecting your breeding stock, whelping the litter and raising it with optimum care. Sometimes, just sometimes with dogs you do get what you paid for - or didn't in the case of dogs with completely preventable health issues. Good breeders don't need to hold a gun to anyone's head to get the prices they charge. I don't see anyone suggesting that those who don't want to pay that sort of money should have to either. But consider for a moment what's paying for the forum so many people turn to for advice on raising their pups. Seems to me that some people aren't fully aware of how much registered dog breeders contribute to providing the informaton so many people gain here. "I'd never pay that for a pup" you say. But here you are, benefiting from those who do. Extolling the benefits of bargain hunting doesn't sit so well with me in that regard. I'm not suggesting that all dog owners shouldn't be here and share in the wealth of knowledge this forum provides. But perhaps a little more respect for the aims of this forum and what it seeks to promote is called for. If your view is that there's no way in future you'd buy an ANKC registered pup (or a rescue), don't expect that to sit well with everyone. For some of us, cost is not the issue that drives what we buy and IMO the more you learn about dogs, the more you'll value what a responsibly bred pedigreed pup means. FYI, I've never paid more than $800 for a pedigreed pup. The last one was free. :) The "bargain" comment was an attempt at a lighthearted way of highlighting my upbringing - I was not trying to say that I equate my much loved pups with a bargain. I'm not sure where you got the impression that "there's no way I would ever buy an ANKC registered pup" - that's not what I was saying and it is not what I think... down the track I would actually love to become more involved in the dog world, learn more and maybe eventually moved down the track of becoming a registered breeder. I wasn't really meaning to debate the merits of whether or not everyone should but a registered pedigree puppy - just saying that if people choose NOT to, it doesn't automatically mean they will be any less of an attentive and caring owner. Just as someone who does buy a pedigree puppy isn't automatically going to be a great owner. The point I was trying to make is that people should be judged on their actions, not from some overarching generalisation. I think I read somewhere that registered pedigree breeders account for only about 10 - 20% of Australian dogs. Does this mean that the other 80 - 90% of dog owners can be automatically catergorised as "“low-cost” owners who won’t care for their dog properly and will dump it at the first sign of trouble."?? I probably have the exact percentage wrong but you can see what I mean. I tried very hard NOT to offend anyone, as I know the majority of people on this forum are either registered breeders or own registered dogs. I really don't see how I was disrespectful. I was simply questioning this one assumption. Forums are designed for discussion and communication, so i thought that would be allowed

I will definitely look into the worming thing then Sandra - what do you do in terms of flea / worm treatment? Paddles we just do the veges on the night and add it to the meat which we had already weighed and bagged. This way, anything I want to get rid of in the fridge before it goes bad can be added. we also only have a small freezer so this saves space. It only takes me a couple of minutes to chop into smallish chucks and stick it in the ninja food processor and whizz lol

Seld

Before I say anything I want to make clear that I have NO PROBLEM with breeders asking whatever price they want for their puppies. They have put in the time, effort and money and it is absolutely up to them what price they want to ask in return. However, I'm another one that takes exception the the generalisation which came up earlier in the thread - that people who don't want to/can't pay $1500+ for registered pedigree puppies can't afford to own a dog, or won't care for that dog properly if they get one. Both my staffies were bought from local families with litters from their family dogs. They were $500 each. There is NO WAY I could have convinced my partner that it is necessary or desirable to spend $1500+ each on the pups. To be honest, I would have had difficulty swallowing that myself ... In my family bargain hunting is like a religion :laugh: . We had just bought our first home, and are both in fairly low paying jobs. That being said, our dogs want for nothing. They are fully insured. They were being fed TOTW and Earthborn Holistic dry food at about $100 per 15kg bag and are now on a raw barf diet (eating better than us!). They are fully vaccinated and religiously wormed/fleatreated. They have recently been enrolled in obedience classes at $180 a dog. The are regularly exercised and socialised and have more combinations of leads / harnesses / collars etc than I have shoes. Hunter started limping at 10pm one night last week and was at the vets first thing the next morning. As soon as he got to the vets he got so excited he forgot all about the fact that he was only walking on 3 legs a moment ago and was perfectly fine from that point on. Nevertheless $550 spent at the vet trying to diagnose the problem and find out if there were any issues that needed management. We now think the problem was possibly a pinching nerve. I accept that by getting a registered puppy you know the history of the genetics of that dog, and can therefore rule out health issues that cannot be ruled out with more "casually" bred dogs (like that description? :laugh: ) I also accept that my pups will probably not conform to breed standard or be "show quality". Thats fine - I was looking for a family pet not a perfect example of the breed. All my previous dogs have been mixed breeds, from the pound. So the idea that you may have a mixed result in terms of health, conformation or any other aspect of the dog is no new idea for us. I just don't think that because someone decides not to buy a registered, pedigree dog they should all be tarred with the same "bad / irresponsible / don't care about their dogs / likely to dump" brush. As i think someone else mentioned - cost is all relative anyway. For someone on a $100,000 a year wage, the fact that a dog was $3000 probably doesn't make them reconsider dumping it if that is what they are inclined to do. I in no way mean to diminish what breeders are trying to achieve, or make a judgement about whether you should or shouldn't buy from a registered breeder... I just think that some generalisations are a tad unfair.

should definitely try the frozen king idea... both pups think they are getting very special treats when you give them a plain old ice cube :laugh: Just checked with the vet and apparently everything went well with Juno during the op. I took the option of IV fluids so hopefully this will increase the speed of her recovery! Can't wait to pick her up this afternoon... I wonder if she will be in a clown collar? poor little girl haha

That Louis is more ears than dog! how cute!! And yes, he definitely didn't look impressed to have the confined!

i haven't started with the offal yet but everything I feed is human grade so I should hope this rules out the possibility of worms? I also freeze most of the meat that I use which I believe can kill any nasties. I think it has to be frozen for a significant amount of time to do any good though. I use advocate monthly which covers fleas and worms ... I think there is one type of worm it doesn't work one, probably the tapeworm knowing my luck :laugh: will have to double check.

:laugh: well the same advice applies, small steps, and something to chew on... chocolate :D YES! Medical Chocolate doesn't count for dieting right?

coukld be me with the anxiety problem

goo d tips thank you .. I think if I gave him a bone to chew on he would never even notice she was gone haha

that's very irresponsible of you not to research the breed before you purchased Cassei :laugh:

As if anyone could stay in close proximity to those adorable puppies and NOT end up keeping one :laugh: congratulations!