Kavik

I have a dog with skin issues (don't want to risk fleas which might make him worse) and live in a high tick area, so use flea/tick treatment monthly year round.

I am sure as I get more confident with my options it will get easier - I am not that imaginative as to my handling options yet :laugh: . Probably next on my to do list would be to watch some handling DVDs or go to a handling seminar so I get a better understanding of the system as a whole. I almost did the GD seminar over summer but decided that with the problems I was facing with my dog at the time that the relationship building exercises in Recallers would be more beneficial than a handling seminar. Now that I am with a bigger club we should be able to get more handling practice in. It sounds like they try to do a distance challenge quite often, as well as other handling manouvres.

They may have their own independent registry which provides pedigree papers?

Very cute and cheeky :laugh:

If I can't do it it is no big deal for me :) . I am finding some distance challenges suit us and some don't. At the moment I don't have any complicated manouvres in my handling. Need to brush up and improve some aspects for sure such as rear crosses and tight turns. Need to be less scared of using a rear cross :laugh: ETA: I think the ADO course on Sunday could have been doable for us. He did cut in after the broad but I certainly think it is a challenge we could do. The JDO course, not so much. It doesn't matter. There have been some JDO coures I have walked and gone, nope no way are we going to be able to do that distance challenge :laugh: and others where I have gone, yep no problem.

That is correct :)

I agreed with this & find the same thing with the system I use. Over analysing trial courses from a rules perspective just puts extra things in your head when you are running it. I try to save my analysing for planning my training sessions and just hope like hell it has become second nature when it comes time to test in a trial situation. I had an interesting run in CFS masters jumping last Saturday. I ran a dog that has been trained exclusively with the GD handling system. I have never run him before, and handled him using exactly the same cues (similar to CFS system) as I handled Trim with. He took 2 bars, one was on a straight (so not affected by system cues) and the other was a poor signal from me before he had committed to a jump. Other than the 2 bars, he nailed it! He showed no confusion whatsoever with the handling system I ran, even though I used a totally different system to what his owner would have.To top it all off, other than the 2 bars, he would have beaten Trim on the same course by just under half a second. Food for thought... That was also a very nice run!

Layering and turning the dog away from you (which I call a tandem turn, and this is different to a change behind) are definitely frowned upon in the Greg Derrett handling system. Hence, there are some GD handlers who no longer enter open becasue these types of challenges are common in open class. The GD system also has limitations in Gamblers (at least the quite complex gamblers courses that I really enjoy doing). My personal advice to these people is a simple "Why choose a handling system with those limitations???" I have my own handling system, heavily based on manoevres taught by Ronda Carter and Elicia Calhoun with a touch of a few others including what I have read of Linda Mecklenberg + I can think of one thing of Greg Derrett's that I include and my own finishing touches. I seem to be able to communicate to my dog with very rare moments of confusion with turns away, layering, distance and close work. Those moments of confusion are because my timing has been a little incorrect, rather than the dog received conflicting information. There are many ways to teach the "turn away from me". They include either the "flick of the hand" (a no-no with GD), using the opposite arm to turn the dog away, which GD says should mean the dog turns to you. the way I work my dogs, the turn-away-from-me uses a very different arm movement and the dog naturally reads it. Another way to turn the dog away is to put pressure on the dogs line by moving closer to the dog. There are quite a few drills that can be done to develop these skills. Layering is a very different skill to the "out", or "work wide" command. Lia, you are quite right to establish the dogs line, and then move parallel or slightly converge. If an obstacle happens to be between you and the dog, it should make no difference to the line that the dog takes. I believe (I am not a GD expert so I happy to be corrected) GD says that if there is an obstacle between you and the dog, the dog should converge to you over the obstacle. To me this is an artificial rule (one the dog does not do naturally, so you have to teach it.) Your movement should dictate (naturally) whether to converge, or keep driving. To teach layering, first teach the dog to run a line parallel to you. Do multiple repetitions of a sequence, each time working a little bit wider. Once the dog is happy to drive the line out wide of you (with you moving parallel) the simply place some simple obstacles between your line and the dogs line. It it distracts the dog, you might simply start with a jump bar, then a single jump. You can put a target out in front of the dog. NOTE - if you start to lag, then the dog should start to converge, because he will start to look back to see where you are. I would not choose to layer if AI thought I was going to be behind my dog. Hope that all makes sense! Cheers, Thank you, that was very helpful :) Now that I have joined a bigger club I should get to work on more handling exercises. Last night we reproduced the ADO distance challoenge from Sunday (though I think not quite the right angles or distance) and we had no problem, whereas we didn't make it on Sunday. Regardless, I am just so happy to be able to work on handling with my dog rather than worry about aggression issues (which I had with Zoe), it is certainly a much nicer way to spend training!

I was thinking maybe go all the way around the corner of the line, near 10 before sending over 5? Not pretty. Not sure if doable either :laugh:

Sorry I still can't see it :laugh: The only thing that I can see working is if you have really good distance control and can be on the other side of the tunnel at the start, send over the jumps and into the tunnel from a distance, then after 4 use threadle arm and keep them with you until you can send them over 5 and through tunnel, so basically run the outside of the line.

Hi Vickie, Your run was awesome to watch! My spatial ability is not the best, so I am trying to figure out your suggestion but having problems visualising it :laugh: I am not so good at figuring out my handling from maps yet, need more practice.

I think someone asked Greg Derret this when he was out here, unless I'm misunderstanding what people are calling layering etc. His response? Don't run the course at all. Don't teach your dog to flick just to get a Q. He said this applies to a few of the games (including peopel ruining their decal cues to work at a distance). Thank you megan, I was hoping someone with a better understanding of GD handling system than me would come in to let me know what is suggested in these cases :)

Hi Le :) I don't have a turn away from me cue (actually I don't think it is a preferred cue/handling decision in SG/GD handling? Will have to check on that) so I wasn't sure how else to try to handle the course :laugh: . I agree it wasn't ideal (and wasn't successful either!). ETA: Looking at the map again and I still can't see a way that I could have done it with the handling skills I have other than trying what I did. Hmmm we may be in trouble now that we just got into JDM :laugh: May have to look into some new handling options.

Kaos has pretty good distance naturally, and we often get the distance challenge if it is just about the distance and not so much handling, I haven't taught any turns or handling at a distance though, like the last one in DeltaCharlie's video. It could be that I wasn't running my line as hard as I should have, I know the first one I think I slowed down when I should have still been running. Just trying to figure out if there is anything I can do that doesn't conflict with the handling system I am using.

How do people train for layering in agility? Both the Open courses on the weekend were courses where layering was either an option or the only way to do the distance challenge. I haven't trained anything in relation to layering, I use SG/GD handling. Mostly at the moment I just hope that by setting my line (having done lots of 1 jump exercises on this) and running hard he will do it and not turn in towards me :laugh: which sometimes works but didn't on the weekend. I don't have a turn away from me cue so for both courses layering was the only handling option I could come up with. I avoid layering where at all possible. I have to admit I didn't see my handling option (which many tried) working too well for many people in the JDO course :laugh:

Some of the components look similar to Recallers - has some of the same games for the building drive to work section (these would probably be in any course of hers as they are the foundation of all her work - Crate Games, Its Yer Choice etc). She also does not want students to share all of the information with others who have not done the course. There are other methods of running contacts if you can't afford to do her course but still want running contacts.

The contact course is here! Main focus is on stopped contacts but the 'Plus' members get access to running contacts information http://www.runorstop.com/sp/9688-say-yes-to-contacts-success Bit more expensive than I was hoping for, so still deciding whether I can afford to do it (hoping to get help from parents)

I have 3 dogs Zoe 12 1/2, Diesel 8, Kaos 6. Currently competing with Kaos in agility. At the moment I do 2 training sessions during the day, and a walk in the evening with a training session at the park when we get there - the walk is rotated (Zoe is dog aggressive so has to be walked separately). I do a training session in the morning, none of my dogs get breakfast, their main meal is in the evening. I should be better with my record keeping a bit slack in that area. I have a plan on what I will work on in that session before it starts, and what my goal is for that session, which is specific. Most sessions have a few components (relationship building, the exercise or so I am working on, then more relationship building/chasing/fun) but the entire session is only short - a few to 5 minutes, depending on dog and what I am teaching and the weather. ETA: I go to agility class once a week (when it is not rained out!) and compete once or twice a month depending on availability of trials in my area.

Thanks guys! Great work TerraNik on the Rally titles!

Our brag for the weekend - qually and first place in JDX which gives Kaos his Excellent Jumping TITLE! Very exciting! Both excited and a bit daunted to now be in Masters Jumping! :laugh:

Really? At agility people tug before and after a run, and people are tugging right next to the ring ropes.

I agree with this - including being intimidated by others. My shepherd is 'almost' ready for the ring, something I've been preparing her for since I brought her home at 8wks. She's ball driven (loves her tug too) however there's not a lot of places where we live that encourage any sort of reward let alone using her prey drive. That's been fine until now - I take her to a local club and they're ok with me going off doing my own thing but now I want to try her in the mock trial ring and I'm already feeling intimidated . At the moment I train at the far end of the paddock so I won't upset anyone, but their mock trial ring's right next to their classes. I won't be throwing her ball but I would like to use tug in the mock trial ring but I'm pretty sure at best it won't be appreciated and at worst I'll be asked not to use it - so yes I'm already feeling intimidated That's very interesting considering that in agility NFC runs in ADAA a tug is the only reward you are allowed to use! and is the preferred reward for pretty much all top level international competitors.

Wow that looks awesome! Thanks for posting Corvus!

Have you watched the DVD? The DVD has step by step instructions on how to teach it. You want to get the pounce into and out of the box, not just a step, and do it in various positions (in front of box, next to box, behind box). And then add the jump grid to simulate the striding on the A-Frame, and proof that. Then you can add to contact area of A-Frame and back chain it. ETA: I watched DVD, and did the groundwork, but in the end decided to teach 2o2o because I do both ANKC and ADAA and the A-Frames are different sizes, and this combined with the experience of a friend who had taught this method and does both codes, it is hard to get the dog to do the same striding and hit the contact area on different sized A-Frames.

In agility dogs pick up on shoulder cues for turning, and I notice when I do chase games that my posture and shoulder position also gives cues for acceleration/deceleration. I think this could be applied to heeling.