Kavik

Glad it works for you tdierikx :) I have no problem stating that I bring treats with me anytime I take my dog out :)

Most of the ones I see are imports :) There was a litter earlier this year between a US import and the granddaughter (I think) of a Tri Ch which would have been heaven if I was in the market for a puppy/herding Aussie! As a consolation I still get to cuddle with one of the pups from the litter sometimes, she's already a tiny superstar :D This is what I think the other times :laugh: though inserting Mal or BC instead of Aussie Shepherd. There is something about the look in the Kelpie's eyes . . . There really is isn't there :) OH was having a bad day today so I sent in the kelpies and suddenly all was forgotten :) Also I think I should get the hang of training a stong-eyed dog before trying to switch to a loose-eyed dog and getting myself all confused! Also buying well-bred, well raised dogs I'd miss out on all the "fun" of dealing with the myriad of issues the rescue dogs came with :laugh: Some of my friends have young dogs just starting out in competition, and others have dogs that are almost ready for competition, all of them PHENOMENAL! Sometimes makes me tempted to change teams with the next dog

They are stunning kelpiechick!

tdierikx, What they were doing was a very poor use of food in training! I would have left too, especially since they continued to give treats when you told them not to. Sure you don't have to use treats if you don't want to, if what you are doing is getting you the results you want.

To add to huski's comments - am I right in reading that the trainers fed your dog from their bumbag? Now wonder you had problems using food! I never allow others to give my dog treats, or they end up trying to get treats from everybody else.

This is what I think the other times :laugh: though inserting Mal or BC instead of Aussie Shepherd. There is something about the look in the Kelpie's eyes . . .

When I worked at the dog daycare I would see dogs and think - they would be awesome to train and compete with! There was the odd one I would have loved to take home . . . Lollipup I completely understand about your stance with the Malinois - I feel the same way :) Would love to get one but don't know if my skills are up to scratch for getting the best out of one yet. Plus I have little kids and not sure how well that would work. I have decided to get another Kelpie next and then see where we are after that.

Completely agree!

Greg Derrett's Agility Foundation Training DVD has information on flatwork and other foundation exercises Susan Garrett's Success With One Jump DVD has exercises you can do with one or no jumps - great for focus forward/obstacle focus and handling manouvres such as front and rear crosses, serpentines, threadles etc. I think Susan Garrett is also going to release a DVD on body awareness exercises, some of them are really great, I have had access to them on her contact course. Silvia Trkman has some DVDs which also look interesting, I haven't seen them yet though: Tricks for Balance, Strength & Coordination Ready-Steady-Go! 33 Tips for More Speed Cik & Cap: The Easiest Way to Perfect Turns

As it is coming up to the end of the year I though I'd look at my goals and see how we've done. We have had a great year! * We gained our JDX, GD and ADX titles! * We got 2 JDO quallies! * Our tug has progressed to the point where I can tug a little out of the yard, though more progress still needs to be made before I can use it in training * His contact performance has improved a lot - much quicker and less hesitant. I am still working on SG's nose touches but not ready to put it on equipment yet. * His focus has improved a lot, we only had one time all year that he has run out of the ring

While there is no limit to the number of dogs you can own in NSW, there is a limit of 4 dogs that a person can walk at any time. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/caa1998174/s13.html

The bolded bit is what has me worried about harnesses. With beginner dogs and owners with boisterous, out of control dogs that lunge at people and dogs passing by (quite common), you can't really control what the dog is doing on a harness as you are attached to their chest.

He was just making conversation, I get comments all the time, especially if I walk two dogs together.

Tell's me if she wants the head collar or what ever the gadget is off, then it's an aversive. Funny I have never seen a dog wanting a prong collar off like they do with head collars I wonder if some clubs have the policy to use stupid equipment that doesn't teach the dog anything of value so people keep coming back and spending money on lessons/memberships whatever? That would be too sensible to fit a dog up with a prong or Ecollar who needs it for the best approach to successful training or rehabilitation hey? I didn't say I agreed with the policy of no prongs or no ecollars :) Just letting people know what the policy is. If an obedience club allowed harnesses on strong adolescent dogs with no control, personally I would high tail it out of there! I don't need out of control dogs bounding up to mine on harnesses where the owner has no ability to control the dog's head or direction.

Each club would have its own equipment policy, how strict they are regarding that is up to the individual club, what they will have in common if ANKC affiliated is not allow the use of pinch collars or ecollars.

Really? What's the basis for that? And what are you supposed to use? I was looking into obedience for my guys once my schedule suits next year,but if we can't use a harness then it might not suit. Surely, they would have to make an exception for Pugs ?? I don't know, you would have to ask individual clubs about their equipment policy.

Depends on the club. Most clubs allow flat collar, martingale collar, headcollar. The odd one allows check chains. I don't think a harness allows for as clear communication between dog and handler, or as much control in a busy environment.

I don't know of any obedience clubs that will let you use a harness on your dog for obedience training.

huski, The last workshop I went to was a while ago - 2006 maybe? But I do try to keep tabs on what you guys are doing and I don't think it has changed so much that I would need to come to another one at the moment, thanks anyway :) It really is a different mindset and way of thinking about tugging, and a different use of tugging, which probably does fit more into corvus's theory of it being more play/interaction based. Probably the first time I have agreed with her so much about something :laugh: And some of the exercises in the courses I am doing, tugging IS necessary, you can't assess your dog's weight shift while tugging if your dog doesn't tug :laugh: . Some of the others can be modified to use food, but not all of them. I know that having him chase a ball as his main reward in the past (and still his main reward for agility) has hindered our tugging, and given my time again I would have changed that but I am chalking it down to a learning experience :) These are the tugs I currently use: http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1860&ParentCat=29 http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=390&ParentCat=76 http://www.whelpingsupplies.com.au/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=541 http://www.agilityclick.com/prod13.htm plus a braided fleece tug and a couple of homemade toys made from fake sheepskin and skinneez toys. This ball on rope ordered from cleanrun http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2449&ParentCat=29 So I do mix it up for him :)

I think it sounds like a Boxer would be more suited out of the breeds you say you prefer. Although I would say many dogs have problems reading the body language and play style of all 3 breeds, they can be quite in your face when playing with other dogs, and boxers stand quite upright in stance.

I think tugging is a combination of things acting together, and doesn't just rely on the dog's level of prey drive. Some terriers and sighthounds have high levels of prey drive (great for ratting/coursing) but may be difficult to get to tug with a person as a reward, as it is an interaction with a person, a cooperative effort and game, that they may not feel as comfortable with. I remember reading in that dingo thread a comment on wolves and their high prey drive - but how easy would it be to use tugging as a reward with a wolf? It is not as simple as enough or not enough drive.

It's tricky Weasels hey! The times I've taken Kaos herding they have been impressed with his level of instinct, including Jim Luce. He was very keen from the first time I took him. I haven't done stockwork in a while - wonder what he is like now? I think my issue in general has been compliance/biddability and being comfortable with engaging with me in new environments - so possibly a confidence issue too?

huski, Did you read Susan Garrett's blog link that I posted? She outlines some of the reasons why I am persisting with tug with my dog. Plus it is necessary for some of the elements of her courses I am taking. As I said earlier, it is a different approach to tugging and a different way of thinking about it than K9Pro. Neither is right or wrong, just different. My dog loves to chase a toy, and will tug for a variety of different toys, so has plenty of drive :) My issue hasn't been about his level of drive. I am using tug to sort out a few other things such as compliance and engagement. If we don't get to the level that I can use it in competition then so be it, but I am going to give it a try, my recent success is showing that it is worth doing. Successes in other locations are showing that he is becoming more comfortable with engaging with me, so even if I don't use it in competition as a reward, I have reaped the benefits of how it has improved our relationship, which can be seen by his improved focus, speed and performance this year. Plus it is a lot of fun! It is teaching me a lot about how to read my dog as well. How long it takes is not the issue - building a relationship with my dog is not a race For competition at the moment I use other rewards. I am going to pin my success this year to my persistence in growing my dog's tug behaviour, as it has helped with a lot of focus issues we were having, and seeing me as a more fun person to be around and more comfortable having fun around me.

I found this interesting blog post from Susan Garrett on tugging: http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2012/04/improve-your-dog-training-by-playing-like-a-dog/

I am using mostly Susan Garrett ideas. I am viewing tugging as a measure of the dog's willingness to engage in a game with the handler. So I look at signs the dog is engaging or disengaging. Will the dog remain engaged if I ask him to out the toy? Will he choose to bring the toy back to reengage in a game with me? Will he engage around his favourite food/ball/person to visit, on a different or moving surface, after getting a treat as a reward, when released from the crate, when released from a control position, in a new location? This all tells me how much value he has for playing with me, and how comfortable he is playing with me. This also means I praise and reward the dog for choosing to engage with me, and grow the intensity of the tugging as well. ETA: I am not a purist - I do borrow from other trainers as well, use of markers when my dog chooses to engage and then offer the tug (did this morning when doing transitions from front yard to outside of front yard - outed the toy near the gate, stepped outside gate, marked when the dog looked at me and offered toy - he is getting good at this one now, looked straight away), mark when my dog brings me back the tug.