Kavik

balls and sheep - totally different kettle of fish ...unfortunately (for the few sheep that have to participate in herding workshops) there is nothing that could replace them. On the other side: they might have some stress for the benefit of all the other thousands of sheep that can be gently moved without stress and without getting nipped via well trained sheep dogs. No treibball is obviously not exactly like herding sheep - the balls are not alive. They use similar principles of going around to the back of the ball or group of balls (like they would go around a flock of sheep), orienting towards the handler (balancing) and then bringing them to the handler. Because balls are not alive and do not move on their own, the dog pushes the ball towards the handler. It looks like good fun! And sort of 'fake' herding if you can't or do not want to use sheep (as you pointed out, there are some ethical questions surrounding using sheep in training the dogs, even more so with city dogs who are not ever going to work on a farm for real and are only doing it for a bit of fun. Is it fair to subject the sheep to all that stress just so your dog can have a bit of fun?). Not that I am against training city dogs to herd sheep, just pointing out that some people see this as a fun alternative to herding. Treibball

The one good thing to come from the disaster of a seminar, is that I am determined to fix the things that are causing us the most problems. Trying out a few new things now after brainstorming with a friend. It is not going to be easy, I have a creative, independent thinking, high drive dog :laugh: and will need to find equally creative solutions!

Don't write yourself or your dog off for seminars :) First seminar I did with a big name guru I felt the same way. I knew Darcy was only a heartbeat off shutting down on me, I was overwhelmed and freaked out and certainly wasn't getting any help/support from them. Having done probably a dozen or so now - I found it was just a matter of finding the right people and sticking with them :) These days we have so many people out there available for seminars that we can pick and choose. My advice - stalk them before committing I watch videos of their seminars, I ask heaps of questions and I find out what their background is, who's been their influence in their training and and research them too. For example - I've watched several seminar videos taken at a US gurus seminar - and while there was music over the video to block out the feedback, their body language was really off. I did a bit of background digging and what I seen in body language was also reflected in the attitude. I've watched a few videos from the last series of seminars from the one you went to and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't suit me for multiple reasons, yet several of my friends rave about them. Of course I would learn something, but I don't have endless $$ or annual leave to do every seminar out there. If a working spot feels all too scary - find someone in Aus who does seminars but also offers online private lessons or online classes. Get to know them through their online private lessons, or their online group lessons and then step up to a working spot when they are next in the area if you feel you want to - once you know them, it's no longer quite so intimidating :) There is plenty doing it now, Epic Agility, Red Dog Agility, My Agility Coach etc. Megan at Epic is one of my all time favourites and Megan does seminars in Sydney, I'm also hosting her in December :) Dave Munnings is also great - both have a knack of being able to cater for everyone, they are both really encouraging and a lot of fun. Thanks, those are really good ideas! Stalking them and getting to know them through online classes sounds like a great first step to getting to know them before trying a working spot! Much better than going in cold without knowing them at all like I did this time :laugh: I had an auditing spot in the Shape Up seminar last time they were here, and that was amazing! They were fantastic! I definitely plan on going to the next one, though I don't know if I will try a working spot yet, there will be a lot of competition for them for one thing, I may only be able to audit :laugh:

Nooooo!!! I love both. It's all learning. What happened? My dog has a short attention span and gets easily distracted, and also doesn't deal well with repetition or failures all that well in a situation like a seminar. I tried to explain this to the instructors and was basically told he is driving the bus, I need to do more foundation (have I done much apart from foundation for the last 3 years? Seems that's all I do half the time!) and they then pushed too hard and asked for too much repetition and too many chances for him to check out, and he ran and took off with someone's toy and I couldn't catch him . It was SO embarrassing! I left early. Basically, I don't have a Border Collie that will try all day long to get it right if they don't get it right the first time. I think that says more about the instructors than it does you and your dog...speaking from non-BC handler experience! I think my dog may just not be a good dog to take to a seminar for a working spot New/different things and testing knowledge of cues in a busy, new environment when I am likely to be quite stressed as well due to instructors being well known, but not knowing the instructors well personally, trying new things, and other people watching. Sounds like a recipe for some failures for sure :laugh: Nothing wrong with failure. But that's seriously a fault of the instructors if they can't work within your capability. Ginny is MILES behind in classes due to my injuries but instructors had me modify everything for success. I was still stressed but she had s BALL. I didn't really fit in anywhere which didn't help. While I enjoy foundation handling training, I do lots of that at home and we are proficient at this, if I am paying for a handling spot I wanted to try my hand at sequencing rather than sits, drops and multiwraps. But the advanced section wasn't right for us either. Not only was it fiddly and far too difficult for my dog (who is maybe nearly almost ready to enter Novice - if it wasn't for a few non agility specific issues we would enter, his handling is OK), but it was far more complex than anything I had ever tried with my Masters level dog - I had never attempted or even seen anything like it in Australia (think non linear type course like the recent FCI ones). So I was stressed before we even started.

Nooooo!!! I love both. It's all learning. What happened? My dog has a short attention span and gets easily distracted, and also doesn't deal well with repetition or failures all that well in a situation like a seminar. I tried to explain this to the instructors and was basically told he is driving the bus, I need to do more foundation (have I done much apart from foundation for the last 3 years? Seems that's all I do half the time!) and they then pushed too hard and asked for too much repetition and too many chances for him to check out, and he ran and took off with someone's toy and I couldn't catch him . It was SO embarrassing! I left early. Basically, I don't have a Border Collie that will try all day long to get it right if they don't get it right the first time. I think that says more about the instructors than it does you and your dog...speaking from non-BC handler experience! I think my dog may just not be a good dog to take to a seminar for a working spot New/different things and testing knowledge of cues in a busy, new environment when I am likely to be quite stressed as well due to instructors being well known, but not knowing the instructors well personally, trying new things, and other people watching. Sounds like a recipe for some failures for sure :laugh:

Nooooo!!! I love both. It's all learning. What happened? My dog has a short attention span and gets easily distracted, and also doesn't deal well with repetition or failures all that well in a situation like a seminar. I tried to explain this to the instructors and was basically told he is driving the bus, I need to do more foundation (have I done much apart from foundation for the last 3 years? Seems that's all I do half the time!) and they then pushed too hard and asked for too much repetition and too many chances for him to check out, and he ran and took off with someone's toy and I couldn't catch him . It was SO embarrassing! I left early. Basically, I don't have a Border Collie that will try all day long to get it right if they don't get it right the first time.

Something like that :laugh: It's been described as herding using balls instead of sheep, so the dogs move big balls around, generally going a distance, going around the balls and bringing them back to an area near the handler. Looks like fun!

I'm now too petrified to try a working spot at a seminar, did one for the fist time on Wed (all others I have gone to have been auditing spots) and it was a total disaster . Don't know if I could face that again!

What about Treibball? I've been quite tempted to give it a go! https://www.facebook.com/Treibball-Australia-467575496685843/

VERY loud! You can even hear the barking over the music lol

While I don't do flyball, I know a lot of people who do. From what I can gather it is a lot more competitive than agility, and being a team sport I have heard it gets quite nasty! There are different grades? levels? based on their time, so the lower levels with slower times are probably less competitive than those at the top. I personally find it waaaay too manic and too much barking for me, and my current dog is too amped up as it is, don't need anything like flyball to send him any higher :laugh:

Are you looking for wood or plastic? I have both wood and plastic, the dogs seem to prefer the wood, but the plastic ones last longer, and the dogs like to chew the wood, one of them now has a very wide doorway thanks to chewing puppies :laugh:

Yes definitely some enjoy it more than others

without knowing I bet AU$ 10 that your client's dog is a retriever? ...I think the potential market is likely limited to those breeds...but then they carry whatever you give them, so why spending $$ on another leash?...because people can, oh well.... Actually, the client's dog is a Staffy :) He loves to tug on and carry his lead!

I have one client whose dog would like this :laugh: I am not keen on the bungee part of the lead though, I like knowing exactly how much lead length there is in case another dog/person/kid/rabbit etc comes by.

very cute foster puppy! You do like your red/tans :laugh:

I'm with you on this angelsun. One standard per breed not one show standard and one working standard. Working border collies for example with their scruffy short coats should be limited register only as they are not per breed standard especially in reference to coat. JMHO Re Shelties: being involved in the agility world, I've seen many different types but I wasn't aware the breed was heading down an English/US path. I just assumed some lines had a more dense coat than others. Australia has a strange Border Collie standard. Other countries allow the short coat and a wider variety of colours. FCI standard: http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/297g01-en.pdf And a fairly typical Working German Shepherd

Lots of the working BCs that I know are ANKC registered.

I seriously doubt that Shelties would be split into 2 breeds. There are breeds with a LOT more variation in type than Shelties which are not split. Many have show/working line splits but are still considered the same breed. I seriously doubt that UK and US Shelties are more different to each other than say working GSD and show GSD or working BCs and show BCs.

Nitro is entire and I have been quite hassled by my vet to have him desexed, just about every time I go there with him!

I am in Sydney so there are a few there :laugh: though I am not doing ADAA at the moment. There are competitions in Warilla and Douglas Park

I think you can get on Sporting Register through either pedigree (WKC papers is how my dogs get on) or through sheepdog clubs through merit, but I don't know much about that as I haven't done it that way, but people have told me it is possible to do that.

...that's interesting...especially if you want to compete with a Golden Retrievers where the risk of ligament injuries is dramatically increased for de-sexed dogs....it is not required if I register my dog with ADAA (TBC)...?... Not sure with ADAA, but to compete in ADAA competitions you will need to travel to Queensland ...with the Grand Prix excepted as that is held in Tamworth once a year. But I know that until your dog is desexed you will not be able to register it with ANKC. As far as Golden Retrievers go, they can't compete until they are 18 months old & by then they would probably be desexed. There are ADAA competitions in NSW :) Only dogs that are not able to be registered in another way go on Associate Register (ie crossbreeds or non registered purebreds). Some breeds that have an alternate registry to ANKC can go on the Sporting Register and not need to be desexed to compete in sports. Eg Kelpies registered with WKC, Koolies registered with the Koolie club. I think there are a few sheepdog registeries too, which register on merit/ability rather than pedigree, so Willem could get a BC on Sporting Register through there if his dog had ability on sheep.

Small female working Malinois for agility (possibly too much dog for me :laugh: !) Mudi (not in Australia yet :laugh: ) working Groenendael Markiesje (not in Australia yet :laugh: ) hmmm I guess I like black dogs lol

Mine are always contained if tradies come over, mine are very friendly but sometimes overly so :laugh:. Also tradies tend to leave gates and doors opened.