Kavik

Kelpies are not like GSDs lol I have both. Although with both breeds choosing your breeder carefully is important because some individuals of both breeds can be highly strung and/or have poor temperaments.

What are you planning on doing with the dog? Those requirements could be many breeds or none, as Haredown Whippets said a lot is down to training, management, how much time you spend with the dog, and what you want to do. Eg Willing to work - that is very open - work doing what? sports like obedience/agility/flyball? Herding? Protection? Gundog work? Not high strung, an even temperament - even within breeds temperament can vary a lot, this is where research into breeders and lines of dogs is useful. Doesn't shed or drool much - then you can discount many breeds with double coats and brachycephalic breeds

What traits in particular are you looking for? Belgian Malinois is similar in some ways.

The key I find is to make it valuable for them to bring something to you. I started with something my dog did not already have value in - I chose a crumpled up piece of paper, but you can use anything. I used a nose touch to my hand as a start - they have value in touching your hand with their nose. Get them interested in the article, move it around, mark and reward when they put their mouth on it, build this up to them holding it, then present your hand (at this point you are right next to them, with dog on lead if you think they will take off with it). If your dog has value for your hand, they should move towards your hand for a nose touch. Mark and reward even if they let go of the item but come to your hand. Build up to them bringing the item, aim is to have them bring it to your hand.

You could try teaching a retrieve. This is a video that I have found very useful in teaching a retrieve to my Kelpie :)

I do my best to minimise the risk by only allowing them to greet either known adult dogs, or puppies who are interested and friendly. I keep an eye on the interaction and if it starts to get too boisterous (or if one dog gets uncomfortable) we call our dogs and work on our sit in proximity to other dogs until they calm down a bit. Puppies are kept on lead for this reason except when visiting friends whose dogs I trust to be good with appropriate behaviour around puppies.

I agree with Vickie and I also think it depends on the temperament of the individual dog. Kaos was never really that interested in other dogs, even as a pup. There is the odd dog he wants to visit (mostly other Kelpies), but on the whole he is not interested. He can, however, be a bit uptight around other dogs in close proximity and doesn't like dogs who get in his face. He is fine at training and in a trial environment where it is more controlled but I don't trust him to run loose with other dogs unless I know the other dogs well. Diesel likes to visit other dogs, but I didn't know a lot about building value for me when I got him, so I have a harder time keeping his attention around other dogs. Nitro so far is very good around other dogs, he can be a bit full on, but he doesn't jump all over them, lies down to greet puppies, and doesn't mind them jumping on his head. He is also getting much better at being calm around them if I don't want them to meet, and at bringing his attention back to me, which I attribute to my increased knowledge in building a better relationship with my dog.

Wow what a great day TSD! We had a great weekend too! At yesterday's trial we got 2 JDM quallies with a 1st and a 2nd place! And in JDO we got the difficult distance which I thought we wouldn't get as I haven't trained a 'turn away from me' verbal, but I managed to pull him in, reset his line and send him and it worked! Unfortunately no quallie though as he had a lot of speed coming out of the distance and we didn't quite get the serp that followed lol.

Yes they are legal, are shown here, and plenty of profiles on DOL! I have met a few that have been nice.

I think NDTF used to help with legal advice in cases like these as well? In case you need it http://ndtf.net.au/

I have noticed that the handlers I have seen using the newer European handling do seem to run with a lower posture than I have been taught/used to running GD style or even LM style.

I have done some online dog training courses and I loved them! They were very useful! Video instructions mean you can watch them several times to see the mechanics of what the trainers are doing, and all of the ones I have done have had a fantastic support network to help with troubleshooting.

You can always audit a workshop - this is what I am doing. That way you can get a good feel of what they teach and how and why, and the teaching style of the presenter, and decide whether it suits you.

Do you want me to email you the info?

I'm planning to go as auditor! Just need to sort out a couple of last details then I will submit my form.

I never give the dogs expensive beds :laugh: Fleece blankets and towels from the reject shop work fine And yes, cardboard boxes make great toys!

I am the same, always a reward, just increase the criteria as they improve

IYC initially does reward focus on the food, this is actually helpful for teaching focus forward for agility, where you don't want them to focus on your face, but on their line and the obstacles. There is foundation work that revolves around teaching them focus forward. That last video I posted showed perfect focus forward on the toy near the end, that is what you want. Imagine that toy represents the line you want the dog to run in agility, from your start line stay, maybe a couple of jumps at different angles but can be taken in a straight line from the way you have set the dog up. You could even imagine a distance line if you want, so you have to handle the dog from a distance over those jumps, but if they can run their line, without turning into you, that becomes no problem at all. It does not stay focus on food though, when you introduce another exercise (eg shaping something) it helps them to realise they have to do something to get the food, and to try to work out what that is, rather than just obsess that there is food there. Doing IYC with the food in a bowl means that you can have a bowl uncovered on the ground with the food in it, and the dog won't try to get the food, and will concentrate on what you are shaping instead.

Here is an example of IYC with food and toys and shows how it improves your focus forward, and also helps with the understanding of your release

For me I guess the important thing is being honest about what your dogs can do if you are a breeder. So as long as show people are honest about what their dogs can do, and don't pass them off as working dogs if they are not, and working people are honest and don't pass them off as show dogs, and sports people acknowledge that is what they are breeding for, then it is ok. And if you are a buyer, research the lines, look at structure and temperament, and what the breeder's goal is, let the breeder know what you want to do with the dog. The problem is when show people say that their dogs can still work just as well as the working dogs, when they don't know if they could or not, or if sports bred dogs claim the same thing if they do not test and work their dogs. Since some people still do need their dogs to help with their livelihood, I feel that honesty in this regard is important, and one of the reasons there is so much heated discussion about working/show ETA: Quite interesting in GSDs as well. The people working security with GSDs that I know do not like a lot of prey drive in their dogs, they prefer more defence, and like calmer more relaxed dogs. The people using and breeding GSDs for sports do like a lot of prey drive in their dogs, makes it easier to build a reward system using toys and tug, and they give a flashier performance.

This is a good point. People are now breeding various breeds (including both of mine) for success in performance sports rather than the job they were originally bred for. This can cause problems sometimes with people breeding very high drive dogs without the other necessary temperament or physical traits necessary for their original job.

With Its Yer Choice you don't want them to lie down and turn their head away, you are not teaching food refusal, you are teaching focus. You want the dog to be looking at the food and keen but not to take the food until you either hand it to them or release them. If you watch the dog in the video, it is on the edge of its seat to get the food, focused on the food, not turning its head away or trying to avoid looking at the food. Oh Stella is more like she is refusing the bait Kavik.She turns her head away. One thing I don't want to do is dampen any drive she has that's for sure. I don't want to bore her with training either. I'll rewatch that video today. Initially I was worried about IYC and dampening drive, but it doesn't, it helps with self control and also shaping - just trying to get the food doesn't work, so try something else. Also helps a lot with focus forward for agility - focus on the work. Maybe have a look at how you are giving feedback - don't say anything, no intimidating body language, just close your fist if she tries to grab the food. If she doesn't, open your fist, and feed one. Nitro has picked this up quickly and is good at it now, I can put a treat on the ground, he will look at it until I either then pick it up and give it to him or release him to the food, which he then dives for. I have even started using it in some one jump work.

Both of the breeds I own have quite a definite show/working split.

With Its Yer Choice you don't want them to lie down and turn their head away, you are not teaching food refusal, you are teaching focus. You want the dog to be looking at the food and keen but not to take the food until you either hand it to them or release them. If you watch the dog in the video, it is on the edge of its seat to get the food, focused on the food, not turning its head away or trying to avoid looking at the food.

I can't believe that people are giving treats out to other people's dogs in your class! That is such a no no! I never give treats to other people's dogs (unless asked) and never allow people to give my dogs treats.