Kavik

Just imagine the aim you'd need for a Papillon You'd need to spit it ahead of you so it would be in the right place when it gets to the dog's mouth Would you do much attention work at all with an agility dog?

Give agility a go SamAdams - the dog doesn't need to heel

It is great for obedience though - best with the bigger dogs. Don't know that I'd do it with a kelpie - too much room for error with the distance it has to fall!

Have you started with you sitting on the ground or a chair? Just let Bear come up and when he licks your mouth, give him the treat! (sounds gross that way huh? ). Be prepared to be bombarded everytime you sit down though! If you start by dropping them straight away, he might not understand.

One thing to be aware of though - be prepared for a few accidents! I have had Diesel head butt me a couple of times if he decides to jump up to get the food, and got a cut lip once when he bumped me with his mouth. It is good fun! We are now able to do several steps with unwavering eye contact, then I spit the reward and he catches it!

I have the tape 'Training the competition heeling dog' with Tom Rose from the Leerburg set of tapes and he explains how he does it in the tape. I started out as per the tape getting down low (sitting) and allowing the dog to take the food from your mouth (not spitting it yet) - basically the dog licks your mouth and you give the reward. This is done in the 'front' position with the dog sitting in front of you. Then you gradually and slowly stand up - so first you kneel, then stand with bent knees, and slowly straighten them. Only when the dog will focus on you while you are standing do you start spitting the food.

I've also done some grooming and agree with the other comments. When I asked my boss about any good grooming courses she said she didn't know of any that were worth the money - people are looking for experience not paper. I started out in the summer doing bathing and brushing (there is more to that than I thought too!), and now that I have a few days off my other job, I am helping her out bathing and brushing for no pay in return for learning to clip (now that it is not busy she can help me and spend time showing me, too busy in summer). I would suggest scoping out the local grooming salons in the summer and pick up a bathing/brushing job to get some experience. If that works out, they may keep you on and show you how to clip.

Haven't yet got that one but it is on my list of books to get.

I do have an aggressive dog and hope that click to calm can give me some ideas

Which video did you get?

Count me in too!

I've never had a problem with them (only had dogs with front dew claws, not hind). Hind dew claws do seem to pose more of a problem, I know people whose dog has gotten it caught, and ended up having it off when desexed.

K9: so you put her on a leash & when she shows aggression, give HIM the item. I think that would guarantee Zoe would then show some serious aggression towards Diesel!

Yeah but will they chase if they never get to win the article? (tug or ball or whatever)? I guess they will as Zoe chases reflections and torch lights and can never catch these . . . But we generally want to use the article to teach something so give as a reward for correct action, so we give it to them then right? I get confused here

She resource guards if I use prey drive with her. If we are playing tug, and Diesel comes over to see what we are doing, she will have a go at him. If I am tugging with Diesel and Zoe is near, she will intimidate Diesel so he lets her tug instead (which is why I don't do drive building when they are together). I think Zoe just gets overstimulated, and thus her aggression comes out more. Same thing happens at agility, if she is wound up from doing agility she is more likely to be aggressive in the same situation that if we were doing heeling instead she would be fine. So most of my training with her focuses on food which helps her to be calm, and she can focus, while prey winds her up too much. Just a totally different kettle of fish to Diesel, who backs away when confronted with a noisy pack of three Mini Schnauzers at training

A question on drive building (the part I have problems with!): I know that frustration builds drive. But how do you know how far to push before the dog gives up? I know my main problem is that I let the dog win too easily, but I worry that if he is not able to get the prey item he will give up.

Zoe's attention for food is very good and it is what I have used with her mainly. I can't keep her attention with a toy outside of the yard, and when I use it then she really gets overexcited, and if there are other dogs around her aggression is much worse. I haven't got Diesel's prey drive up to what I want - he is good in the yard, ok when out. He appears much calmer even when in drive to Zoe - much happier while Zoe is manic, he is quiet, Zoe is noisy (growls and barks) and Diesel has no problem with other dogs even when in drive.

So what do you do if the dog has weak nerves? Is food the best option then? Diesel's nerves are good but Zoe's are not. Seeing them both in prey drive they are very different - Diesel's is certainly more workable - I'm just waiting for you to show me how properly!

Many of the sites and tapes I have looked at that deal with competition obedience (even from trainers who use prey drive in other aspects and do Schutzhund etc) still use food as their preference for heeling. (eg Tom Rose I have seen on the Leerburg competition heeling tape). Why would they advocate this if prey drive was the more useful one to use (assuming these dogs have good prey drive for Schutzhund)? Especially in teaching attention food seems to be the more popular method, either food from mouth or using a clicker.

Yes I do it on a long line. The only reason I eventually train a recall from a stay is because I need it to trial in obedience. A recall from a sit, once the dog has mastered the recall, is not as much of a challenge - it is the stay component that is more difficult there! For people not planning on trialling, it is more important that your dog will come to you when distracted by another dog, or a person, or a cat or bird than from a sit stay. I think (remembering I have not gone to the seminar yet LOL!) that if the dog is coming to you and following you around without distractions, that it is time to add distractions and see how you go.

Trying to get some understanding here - so K9 what is a proactive method?

I never teach recall from a stay either. Besides needing a good stay first, it is not good for practicing real life recalls. I first teach a come-fore, then when the dog understands that, I practice recalling from a free position, and call the dog when it is distracted (by a smell, other dog, person, cat etc). Running in the opposite direction to the way the dog is going usually gets a good fast recall as they love to chase you. This is more useful in a real life situation when you are likely to call your dog, as it is likely to be distracted and not in a sit stay. When in a sit stay the dog wants to come with you, when it is at the park this may not be the case.

Martingale or check chain.

Boxagirl, I think Bondi would be fine. Despite Zoe's aggression issues, which I told the clubs about right away, I have never been told not to come back. I have seen it as more of a problem than the club has. Some are better when it comes to helping than others. The main problem will probably be that there are some dogs which come rushing up off lead. Unfortunately all you can do is control your own dog, you can't control everyone else's.

My personal take on the situation at the moment: I will manage Zoe's aggression the best I can. She will continue to be a pet and I will do tricks and maybe some more scent detection work with her, and trial any agility ideas I have on her at home. Chalk it down to a leaning experience. Learn as much as I can especially about dog-dog aggression and hope to find some ways of dealing with it before it becomes too much of a problem in case I ever have this problem again. Enjoy Diesel who is dog friendly! Hope to trial him in obedience. I don't think he would be great at agility. Get a kelpie and give agility another go, hope I don't have aggression issues but if I do hopefully I have learnt ways of dealing with them and fixing the problem.