Kavik

I resized some photos today! Here is a rare one of Zoe relaxing in her favourite corner of the yard

Steve doing attention work with Diesel

Steve with Diesel

Diesel showing good attention:

Ok, I resized the Photos! First, Diesel and Benny before the day:

No, ear cropping is illegal in Australia.

I have a rake and a slicker, but really only use the slicker. Diesel's fur is short for a GSD though, and he doesn't seem to shed as much as some others I have seen. When I brush him I only really get out 2 slicker brushes worth! Some other Shepherds I have brushed it certainly looks like a rabbit was killed!

Certainly one of Zoe's problems - she does NOT have a sense of humour If she is working, even just a trick or chasing a ball - it is SERIOUS! Although she can be cheeky . . . My Diesel on the other hand has a great sense of humour and thinks of the world as one big joke and play session, he is one chilled cucumber!

Have you guys had any problems regarding your dog's herding instinct and how your dog relates to other dogs? Like a dog with a lot of eye or one that crouches, has this caused problems in dog-dog interaction?

We'll have to wait on K9 for that one That is pretty much all I know about it!

My example is in the learning stage (as you are physically placing the dog into the sit). In the training/correcting phase or to speed up the response, you would do what pgm suggested.

I haven't used the method, just heard K9 explain it, so if it doesn't make sense it is because I am still trying to figure it out too

The way K9 describes it (using a sit as an example) if I get it right Give sit command give small corrections almost as you are placing the dog in the sit and until the bum goes on ground (I think) Then reward for compliance. As the dog becomes quicker, reduce the number of corrections? I'm not totally sure. Maybe K9 will need to explain.

I think active trainers (feel free to correct me if I am wrong K9) would say that the first option with the e-collar IS one sort of active training. If I understand it correctly. Active - Command - Correct - Comply - Reward I guess clicker training would be the other extreme of training, where everything is dependednt on what the dog does first - has to offer the response?

Very interesting guys! haven - I haven't had much to do with horse training, that was very informative. Erny - I hadn't thought about heeling in that way of the threat of the punisher. Interesting.

Zoe is similar to myszka's description of her dog - but from what I have seen at the K9 Force seminars she has it under much better control than I do!

I didn't realise different lines were better for different types of herding, this is all very interesting. I don't think Zoe was ever my brothers and sisters favourite - she was a bit too full on and too high energy for the rest of my family I think The funniest thing was when my brother would have a LAN party with all the computers and his friends, and Zoe would do the rounds and lick everyone's elbows

Ok well we had some success today . . . This is going to sound hillarious so feel free to laugh I have tried throwing the dumbell and for some reason Diesel just isn't interested in chasing it. Maybe something to do with the clicker training I have done so far with retrieving? Anyway, I decided to try something different. Diesel LOVES socks, he thinks they are the best tug toy ever (I should have brought one to the K9 Force workshop!). So first I decided to put the dumbell inside the sock and throw it to see what he would do. Diesel thought this was a great game! :D Unfortunately he carried the whole thing around by the sock and not the bell. So next I tied the sock around the dumbell. He chased it enthusiastically! Totally different to just the dumbell. But he still carried it by the sock. So I found a smaller sock and cut it so there were no ends for him to grab and Presto! He enthusiastically got the dumbell and held it by the bell. I managed to get him to bring it back by using the other sock as a second toy, got him to sit in front and give . So we have gotten more enthusiasm and speed, after a while I just have to figure out how to wean him off the sock!

Using a check chain to correct a dog for incorrect position while heeling is Positive Punishment. You are adding something (discomfort at the collar being tightened) to decrease a behaviour (not being in the correct position or not paying attention etc) Negative Reinforcement would be that the stimulus that is uncomfortable would be present first, before you gave the command, and compying with the command would stop the stimulus. If we use heeling as an example, the stimulus would be on from the start and would only come off when the dog is in the correct position.

Hi kateshep, Zoe loves kids! I'm part of a large family, so Zoe grew up around a lot of people and kids. It took quite a bit of work to calm her down around kids as she loves to play with them, and tended to jump up on them when she was younger. She will now sit quietly while younger children pat her, though she still gives kisses! Kids (those not scared of dogs anyway) tend to love Zoe and find her easier to approach than Diesel because she is smaller. They love watching her tricks and older children always want to try to get her to do tricks for them. Cats . . . well, Zoe loves cats but this is generally not reciprocated! She wants to play with them and wrestle or chase them (just a game, she would not hurt one). She grew up around cats. One of my parents cats was more skittish and would run, and this is the one she tended to want to chase. The others did not run and she was fine. She did have this tendency to stare at them to make them run and if they didn't she would paw them . . . She has been attacked by a few cats in the last couple of years and is now a bit more wary of them.

Double post

OK well I think I know part of my problem. So far I have been clicker training the retrieve and I just reread the article I am following, I am trying to go too fast! (as per usual ). If I follow the article I have been trying to increase the distance too fast. I guess the only bit about the article I worry about doing is clicking for small lifts of the dumbell and allowing him to drop it (as he should if I click) - as I had the problem with him throwing the dumbell before. The question is: do I continue witha purely clicker approach or combine it with another approach based on prey drive and try to get him motivated to chase the moving dumbell? Here is the article I have been following so far: http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/retrieve4p.html

I have a few pics that Casima sent me, will resize them and put them on here. Diesel looks like a dag in some of them, he is a happy silly boy!

Diesel now holds the dumbell well and will carry it around while heeling or recalling to me. He will come and sit with it and give it nicely. He will reach for it in front of him and lower, and on the ground. Our problem now is speed on going to get the dumbell - he is very slow! And sometimes he pauses when he gets to the dumbell. I tried some advice from K9 Force - no longer doing the sit stay first, and attaching some string to it so I can make it move if he gets disinterested. Which is sort of working, but I'm still thinking about it. My next idea is (this is going to sound funny!) put the dumbell in a sock (he loves socks) and throw it with the sock on it to see if that helps, and to run with him to get the dumbell, make it a game to get it fast. We'll see how that goes . . . Any other suggestions?

Here is Zoe practicing some heeling (will move some more from my camera later). She does everything fast - in obedience and agility! She is not a cuddly dog though. I am thinking of maybe a red and tan kelpie next (if the one I like happens to be that colour anyway!) Love all the photos guys