Kavik

Trying to do too much too quickly is my problem in a lot of dog training So don't feel too bad myszka!

Best points: * It is the trialling component of the club so they are serious about training, have experience trialling and the dogs are not all running riot * While they have set classes they let me do what I like - I can use different methods like food spitting or prey drive training even if they don't, and I can come and go within the class to do a certain exercise or not. * Classes are a good size - not too big and not too small Worst points: * They do large blocks of heeling (as do most clubs) - which can be boring and class structure/exercises are the same each week * While a few people use clickers and one looks to use prey drive quite well, on a whole they don't, and common problem exercises such as drop on recall show this (dogs drop slowly or recall slowly)

This is how I taught Diesel He picked up the hand signal quickly, but the voice independently was more tricky. So I gave the drop command, then the hand signal after, and gradually weaned off the hand signal.

I borrowed a metal retrieve item from my obedience club to get Diesel used to holding and retrieving metal objects. Does your club have any you could borrow?

On the use of hand signals - I would guess that they want people to use voice because sometimes the dog will obey on hand signals but not voice commands as dogs pick up the hand signals quicker. And then people think their dog should know the voice command, and correct it for non compliance, when it really only responded to the hand signals and doesn't understand voice is the same. I actually get in trouble with my club for the opposite reason! I tend to focus more on voice commands, and my club being a trialling club want all the signals at once, voice, hand and foot. So I often don't give the hand signal for drop as Diesel will drop on voice only and they want me to do hand signals as well. He will drop on hand signals as well, I think I just find it easier when handling lead and clicker etc to do voice only as I still take a bit of time to organise hands if holding stuff.

When I had a lapse in interest with Diesel in obedience, I took a break from classes and worked on motivation. Maybe a break would benefit you too. Find something your dog really enjoys and has fun with, whether it is a toy of some sort, or food or a game or access to something. Play games! With me, I think I was putting too much pressure on Diesel, and I wasn't making it fun enough. And it was hard to keep a lot of focus for long bouts of heeling. Diesel is food motivated, so what has worked is spitting food from my mouth and some clicker training for attention. Even now we go in and out of class, only short bursts so that his motivation remains high.

I also picked an embarrassing one first time with Diesel - 'wee time' . More careful selection with Kaos this time gave me simply 'toilet'. Seems to work pretty well too ;)

I got a new pup recently. Luckily work is flexible enough that I was able to do shorter days - 7 - 1 - until the pup settled in. All the dogs are outside during the day when I work, the pup is in a separate area when I am not home. I think it depends on the breed. A small or toy breed is obviously not suited to being outside in this weather, but a hardier breed would be OK, of course providing shelter and fences are fine.

Although it is a straightforward question, I don't have a straightforward answer With Zoe, I went to classes from when she was around 4 months (did puppy preschool before that) till she was around 2 when I took a break to try to get some private help with her dog aggression, came back to the club about a year later, then moved a year after that and started at a new club with her for about 6 months til I got Diesel. (so until she was around 4 1/2). When I got Diesel I started taking him and stopped taking Zoe. I took Diesel from when he was 10 weeks til he was about 2, when I took a few moonths break to build his motivation up again as he was getting bored and slow and I want to trial him so I want enthusiasm. I started back with Diesel a couple of months ago, and also got Kaos, who I take along with Diesel and they split the training time in class.

I understand your frustration Zoe is dog aggressive. Knowing what I do now, I did not help the situation when it first started because I didn't know what to do or how to handle it. We persisted at an obedience club for a long time, and while in class heeling when dogs aren't too close she isn't too bad, but when we stop, or dogs play or are running around in class, she was still aggressive. I don't take her to classes anymore - it is too stressful. It is too bad, because in other aspects of her obedience and agility she is very good. What I would like to do and I think would help Zoe is attention work with a clicker (I do this already) - and at a distance from other dogs click for looking at me instead of the other dog, and then coming to me and sitting next to me instead of paying attention to the other dog. And then decrease distance to the other dogs. I want another dog to be a cue for giving her attention to me. Unfortunately, I need dogs to help me out and it is hard, how do you ask someone to help you with aggression problems? And Zoe is 6 years old, so I don't know how much can be achieved.

We went to training tonight and HE DID IT! :p Stood still and gave me eye contact the whole time during stand for exam. And did not move on the return either! And it is the instructor that he REALLY likes! There is a trial next month at my home training ground and home club - they are asking if I think I am ready to trial as this would be a good starting one. I am thinking about it . . .

We have problems with the stand for exam too. Diesel is a wigglebut and thinks everybody wants to smooch with a GSD! I have been working on focus and attention and just having people walk past and circle him. I can do a stand for exam on him fine - won't budge when I do it. I guess other people are more exciting!

With my Zoe, I think it is more a resource guarding type thing - she doesn't want the others to get access to a resource (in this case, me). She will sometimes stand in between the other dog and me (or the toy, or other dog, or her bed, etc). Is that possibly the case with yours too? I'm sure Steve would have some great advice.

Not sure if this will help as my dogs are different . . . but I understand your frustration. Zoe is my problem dog. Dog aggressive and possessive of toys/treats/people/her favourite dog around other dogs that she knows and is normally OK with. Great with people. I have to watch her if I try to give all the dogs treats at once as sometimes she will growl etc. It took some time and work to get to the point that I could go out and give treats and she wouldn't growl - for a while Diesel wouldn't come to get treats if Zoe was out because he was afraid of her! Actually I'm not sure what helped to settle that down Zoe and Diesel run together, Kaos the pup is separate unless supervised. They get separate training and walks, and the occasional training session in the yard/house together.

I like to learn about all methods. Often I tend to pick bits that I like or that I think will work well. I am working with drive methods and clicker training at the moment. Performance and sports are my interests, all of them, ranging from obedience and agility to herding and Schutzhund and personal protection. I agree with myszka, the dogs are my inspiration. At work I often see dogs that the owners or other staff think are too much and difficult, and I think they would make great performance dogs with some work and direction. But I guess most people are not looking for performance dogs My breeds of choice are GSDs and Kelpies obviously although I like a range of other breeds as well.

That is some awesome work

What about another dog aggression one? I was overseas and missed the last one I even have the perfect dog to donate to the cause :D High prey drive but unfortunately I haven't had much luck developing it, think I messed that up when she was little, poor nerves, eager to please, food loving 6 yr 14 kg of black Kelpie cross ready for your magic

And if you think food is much safer At the daycare you have to watch your fingers when giving dogs treats. Some dogs (many of the Labs especially) will almost take them off for a treat ;) So I make my hand a fist with the treat inside. Some may mouth my hand, but eventually stop and then I give them the treat

I did all the right things to prevent dog aggression with Zoe, took her to puppy classes, off lead parks and formal obedience from 4 months, and she started showing aggression towards other dogs at 6 months. I wish I knew then what I know now . . . might have been able to fix the problem when it first started.

henrynchlo The point of using prey drive is to get motivated responses from the dog in the desired field of training. So in the end you are teaching them what earns them their reward of the prey item - which often requires self control. The thing is to use prey drive in this way you first have to build it up, which can be difficult if starting with an older dog as many even positive methods teach from day 1 to inhibit prey drive. The SAR dogs at the seminar were trained in this way, they worked fantastically and enthusiastically with no problems. Active response scent detection dogs are also trained in this way. Many of the people training in this way are aiming for competition (I am anyway). I have a new Kelpie pup, we are working on training in drive from day 1. He loves chasing his tug and playing tug when he catches it. He does still grab for sleeves and pant legs, but this is decreasing as he is realising this does not get him the desired result. I also work at a dog daycare. Plenty of the dogs there have good prey drive. Yes you sometimes have to watch that they don't accidentally grab the ball or toy out of your hand or your hand by mistake, but it is certainly not deliberate, they are not trying to hurt you!

jaybeece I was given the same information when trying to work through Zoe's dog aggression and it didn't work. Corrections only seemed to make it worse. Now I try to focus her on me instead of the other dog, using food and lots of praise for attention. Dog aggression is a pain in the bum .

With the different disciplines: I think some things the dog can find inherently rewarding (sheep work for example) but with other things such as obedience which is artificial, the dog needs external motivation. This is where I find food/tug etc come in very handy. In agility, many dogs find the obstacles themselves motivating, many especially like the tunnel and A-Frame. I would say there is a lot to sheep work! It is not easy, you are asking a lot of the dog, some things you want the dog to work out for itself as well. Not to mention the different styles of working sheep and different types of sheep dog trials.

OK I have a puppy question regarding building drive. Kelpie pup, plenty of drive, tug work etc is going great. But you said no teaching bite inhibition right? So what do I do when he grabs pant legs, jumpers, shoes, hands etc? Those puppy teeth hurt

I love your posts Lablover . I know now what I have in store with my new bundle of energy! Coordination is something I also have to work on

I will post pics of the new pup when my OH gets the photos off the phone