Kavik

I've been doing some of the One Jump exercises from Susan Garrett,trying to get our weaving up to scratch and getting the hang of our new seesaw

I'm not up to scent stuff with Diesel and I'm doing agility with Kaos so no scent stuff there I guess I could try teaching article indication for Diesel's tracking

I have also found Kelpies are not keen on a guide/place system. They catch on to clickers etc very fast and do enjoy working this way. While they are often described as 'one-man dogs', what does that mean? Mine enjoy the company of other people but if we are working will not pay attention to others, just me which is what I want. I do tend to have more problems with attention with my GSD, who really does like to smooch others.

OK I need some new ideas on tricks/behaviours I can train inside while the temperature is 30+ like today I would love to get some more ideas for shaping, so I can improve with it. I do some already (mostly targetting stuff for agility and obedience) but do still find it frustrating at times. So feel free to add your ideas here and we can share

I agree with Cosmolo As you are finding, Kelpies are different to Northern breeds Very active, on the go, inquisitive and fun! I feed my dogs separately as one can be a food guarder and stealer (Zoe). That way I know everyone has had the right amount of food and nobody gets bullied while eating. Certainly there is no way I would leave food around or an unfinished meal around all my dogs. The behaviour while walking, most likely excitement and lack of training. And many dogs don't like being the one behind! They like everyone to be together. I haven't had any experience with dogs guarding someone from their partner, I would get professional advice for that one. My dogs all love my OH (not always reciprocated though )

I'm more interested in how you prevent negative experiences? Say a dog that gets unsure around bouncy playful dogs? How could you prevent/deal with this so the dog is more comfortable/relaxed around them?

K9: first there is no reason to only teach a dog that other dogs will be calm, not bouncy, just teach the dog how to recat in al cases (that are common) and for those not common, look to the Alpha. Also neutralising does not mean you need a dog that has no reaction to yours, just conttrol the outcomes. So how would you do this? I was under the impression that to neutralise to other dogs you only introduce your pup to dogs which will ignore your pup so it would think other dogs are boring and will not play with it. If you do this, how do you then teach your pup to deal with dogs that may be bouncy, friendly, in your face etc. If your dog has never met a dog that does this, how is it supposed to know how to act around these dogs?

I don't mean taking the dog to the park and letting it get into a free for all But to try to increase its value from negative to zero? That could be difficult if you don't know what you are doing. What about my question earlier - how do you teach the dog to accept things like bouncy friendly dogs or people or kids that come up noisily (or perhaps roughly) for a pat etc if they have only experienced those that give no reaction? ETA: because they would think all people/dogs give no reaction and how would they know how to act when one acts differently to their experience?

I think this is the bit that is difficult about neutralisation. Especially dealing with dogs with weak nerves or are fearful. I think you would have to be very knowledgeable to do this properly and not mess it up.

The ball can teach self control if you train in drive What do you do for training? Training is good for getting them tired as you work their brain :rolleyes: Not only formal obedience stuff like sit, drop, but tricks can also be good (and lots of fun!)

I don't ask for face focus with Kaos but I do with Diesel, as they are doing different disciplines. I can throw the food but want to build up duration first, if I click then throw food he is likely to touch the target plate and then run to where he thinks the food will be. At the moment he is touching target plate and looking at me when I click. I am rewarding by tossing food so it lands near the target plate at the moment. I could try rewarding from opposite side, haven't tried that yet. I tried putting the reward forward, but he will either self reward or be hesitant about going to it at the moment. Probably should work on that. Would be easier with another person to help!

Diesel and Zoe sometimes try to pick up target plates too Kaos doesn't. Diesel and Zoe will also go to a treat bag if I send them and go eagerly to try to get the treat. Kaos will go to it but will not put his nose near the bag. No idea why. They are funny things :cool: We had a good session at home with teaching 2o2o with a nose touch to a target plate. If anyone has any ideas on how to get him focussing ahead I will be very happy! I have him reliably going to target plate and nose touch with 2o2o with click and reward on ground near the target plate, even if I am behind him. He still is looking for me a bit though when I click.

I learned same as Staff N Toller that they are the same thing

When I click, the dog will look for the reward. Where that reward comes from depends on the reward line for that exercise. For 3 pole weave entries it is ahead of the poles, for contact work it is on the ground next to target plate, for other exercises it comes from me, or is thrown away so the dog can get into position again. The dog will then always look for the next chance to get paid by either coming to me or offering the behaviour again (depending on exercise).

That's for sure! Have you ever tried to clicker train a person for practice It is not easy to figure out what is wanted! I recently got a good dose of this when I got new weaves - I thought Kaos was doing well but it turned out he didn't understand what I wanted nearly as well as I thought he did. Same with his contacts - fine if I am beside or ahead, but he wouldn't hold them when I was behind him. So in both cases I had to change some of my methods. Felt like doing this though

Some people use the click = end of behaviour There are several ways to teach heeling. With Diesel I've done: spitting food (with and without clicker), using a toy (at shoulder height first then hidden in my bra strap so he can't see it ) and at the moment working on getting the reward off me, so teaching him to run to my treat bag, then release him to treat bag when he is in heel position with attention on me. Since the best focus I get is at dinner time when he will look at me and I can get him to heel with great gusto before releasing him to his food I think this has the potential to work

Very interesting responses. TSD I understand what you mean Like looking at shaping vs luring at times. Shaping can take longer (and be very frustrating! ) but once they get it, I think they understand what is wanted more than if lured. corvus About touching and physical guidance, very interesting. I have one dog who likes touching/guiding and two who do not. Not meaning corrections via a collar, but more about placing them in position and liking pats etc as a reward. Diesel can be manually placed/guided in a position if I want (sit/drop/stand etc) but I get more resistance and stress if I try that with the Kelpies. Diesel loves a pat/scratch/rub as a reward, the Kelpies would rather food or toy. They like a pat but as a pat not a reward in training (does that make sense? ) If I try to give them a pat while training, they will look at me like, OK now where is my reward or are we still working! I believe there is always stress in training, stress is not always a bad thing.

I wouldn't necessarily expect to make course time as we haven't had a clear run yet :rolleyes: but it might be fun as something we can enter and try.

Cool so I could run it as a jumpers course. Not sure I have my distance handling up to scratch yet :rolleyes:

Cool thanks!

Not ADAA but I don't want to start a new topic ;) Novice Jumping in ANKC has weaves doesn't it? We are almost there with the weaves (I hope!) but not quite yet. I haven't yet registered with DogsNSW but just trying to figure out when I could enter some stuff.

While we're on ADAA rules ;) What is Jumplers? One of the games in the March trial.

I agree with MonElite - they feel different to a check chain and when I tried it on myself, the check chain stung and hurt for a longer period of time than the pinch collar.

I didn't teach play dead either of those ways ;) - I lured it and then faded the lure and made a modified hand signal out of the lure position - taking the easy way out - maybe but it worked

So you're saying a headcollar wouldn't be seen negatively by the dog at all? It does tighten when pulled which is uncomfortable for the dog . . . that is not negative? If you never tighten it, why would you bother having it on at all? Many dogs rub their face along the ground trying to get them off - because they like them so much?