Kavik

Hi Brad It is rather bad form to post the same lengthy post (which could come across as advertising/self-promotion) on several threads. There is a rule about openly advertising on the site in posts, not sure exactly what is or isn't allowed, I think a small link in sig is OK? ETA: Why don't you post a bit about yourself in the introductions forum? Then you can introduce yourself properly

Faith is very pretty Some of the basics are the same across breeds and disciplines - handy first things to teach are a good recall, drop, sit. Does she like toys and/or food? Building up her enthusiasm for these will make training easier and more fun as you can then use them as rewards for correct responses. There are many fun things you can do with Kelpies - obedience, agility, flyball, dancing with dogs, herding. If you let us know where you are located and what you are interested in we can point you in the direction of some clubs. It is easier to train at first with less distractions, so when you are training one dog it might be an idea to put the other dogs away.

That's a very fair and impartially narrated comparison, Willow. The other thing is that unless you understand and experience all four quadrants ("understanding & experience" being the key and operative words) then it is pretty difficult to make a decision on "preferred training philosophy". Completely agree with Erny I think it is important to understand how all the quandrants work, even if later you decide not to use some of them. At least then you will be informed in their use and know why you have decided to use/not use them.

The dog training industry is not regulated, so you don't HAVE to have qualifications. As stated previously NDTF and Delta are the organisations that have recognised courses. However someone could do a course through a franchise like Bark Busters and say they are qualified as they have technically done a course and training to be a trainer.

Granted I'm in Sydney but I don't know of any DogsNSW affiliated clubs that use the guide, show, place system of teaching positions such as sit, drop, stand like ADT did. Most that I know of use luring and lots of food and toy rewards, and some do not allow check chains. The one club I did know of (the one where I did my NDTF class instruction prac) was not DogsNSW affiliated and is no longer training.

Yep I taught this to my last dog. Not sure it was my finest bit of dog training, I was quite young when I taught this I think I did it the most obvious way, dog in sit stay, put food on muzzle and say stay (maybe I held the muzzle or food on there? can't remember) then released and she learned how to flip it and catch it.

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) I own a Kelpie and a Kelpie X 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? Developed to work sheep in Australia, from short haired Collie types. 3. How common is it in Australia? Very common. 4. What is the average lifespan? 5. What is the general temperament/personality? Very active, keen, enthusiastic dogs, always ready to work/play. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? Kelpies thrive and require a good deal of mental and physical activity. They excel at sports such as agility, flyball and of course herding. 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? Not easily cope with, no. With dedication and work, if they were keen on getting into sports might work. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? 9. How much grooming is required? Not much grooming needed. 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? They can be quite boisterous and would need training and supervision around young children and infirm people. 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)

I did enjoy going to obedience classes with Diesel, I met some lovely people at one club I'm just not sure it is the best way to get the type of focus I would want. Agility classes are structured better in a way - sequences which are designed to work on a particular skill, one dog at a time, dog is only working for a short amount of time in one go. You can even put dog in crate in between if you wish.

If I decide to give obedience trialling a serious go again, I will likely do a lot of it outside of a club for the reasons mentioned. I didn't realise until later how different training a dog for competing would be to training a pet for obedience, and the long blocks of heeling are too long to maintain good focus. I would instead do lots of motivational work and building the value of rewards like tugging, sending to toys and food rewards, and then get focus and send, as well as shaping positions such as heel, front and finish. Really short sessions. High speed and motivation. Sending and restraint (restrained recall, restrained send).

Oooh that's no fun I remember that well with Diesel when he broke his leg - the vets kept asking if he'd been hit by a car No - only collision with Zoe doing zoomies in the yard! Lots of patience is all I can advise, the kong idea is a good one, Diesel also got cuddles on the couch in the evening. He was good in the house but taking him outside to toilet was another story He didn't seem bothered by the metal frame on his leg and wanted to go!

So would that mean you couldn't compete with a dog with KNVP papers or would that be OK These are good things to know if I ever decide to give this sport a go, as some people on another board do a lot of promotion for KNPV over ANKC reg papers.

MonElite Do you know if they have to be papered purebreds to compete? Diesel for eg does not have papers and is not registered, but is definitely a GSD. Not that I am going to with him, just interested.

Is ADT still linked to NDTF?

That seems rather sudden ;)

I use the same signal as dogdude. I did get frustrated and left one club because they kept telling me my signals were wrong and I had to do all signals with left hand, and I do some signals (drop and stay) with right hand. I thought that was strange as every other club I have been to did it the same way as me, and I was pretty sure it didn't matter which hand you used.

Diesel is the first dog that I thought I could really give obedience trialling a go with, as Zoe is dog aggro. So far everyone has gotten further than me with their first dog as we didn't even make it to our first trial I made several mistakes with Diesel, some at foundation level, and didn't really realise the difference between training for a well mannered pet and training for competition until I had gotten further along. I would have done more motivational work like sends to rewards early on and focus less on control aspects. I was also worried after Zoe and so was a bit too careful with how I handled Diesel. He doesn't have the same get up and go as my other dogs and also has health problems which doesn't help his energy level. Like a couple of the others I am finding agility a lot more fun than obedience and while I have only had a few passes at agility so far, I am less stressed about competing in agility and not passing, whereas I am still rather terrified about competing in obedience.

Good luck!

Thanks

With titre testing, how often does it have to be done? Do you need to test regularly for immunity or does this last a certain amount of time or forever? If I went the titre testing route and have to present results for clubs, does this have to be done annually like vaccination? Still trying to get my head around this

To have something to measure my training against To have something to aim for in my training To get the best out of myself and my dog - to get myself and my dog working happily in the ring (conquer ring nerves and overcome distractions/stress) Getting passes and titles is nice too

Probably the most important things are: Socialisation Play - see if you can get the dog interested in toys and games - tugs, balls, fetch etc. These become great motivators and rewards in later training, but the dog has to see them as rewarding first!

That would be great

Went to see the SchH III dogs today. Well done to all Especially the 9 1/2 yr old Malinois - she did so well! And was probably the cleanest "C" routine today. Great to meet up with friends and meet some other well known people in the sport as well. And of course to meet MonElite's Furia I have some video of character work that I will add to Ruthless's photo thread once it is uploaded to YouTube (probably tomorrow - it takes a long time!)

I think you should see a behaviourist who can help you with a regime to help with your dog's aggression. Have you done any training with her? Terriers can be fiesty little things! In the meantime I would avoid walking her where there are other dogs, and would not bring a cat into the household until you get things sorted out. Has anything changed that could have triggered such a change of behaviour (was it just after her attack)? Change of house, of routine, of food, new people coming or someone leaving? When did you notice that her behaviour changed? Is she desexed?

The halti I have used is an older model, what have they changed?