Kavik

I am thinking of training walking backwards and am also wondering - what is the best way to start teaching this?

Can't beat this Plus they are gorgeous

Out of your 4 preferences, Kelpies and Dobermanns are well suited to dog sports. Kelpies, being smaller and more manouvrable, would be more suited to agility but there are some Dobies around too. Fox Terriers can be good at dog sports, though being a terrier may be different to train than a Kelpie or Dobie.

And here I was thinking it was going to be a working line/show line thread

I see Great Dane in the head and build

Me too - every time I've been to a flyball demo the dogs bark nonstop! I don't think I could handle that. I'm glad my dogs don't bark when running the agility course.

woofenpup - Kaos is the first dog I've competed with, so a few little glitches to fix in terms of rewarding, not letting him self reward, and placement of reward outside of the ring, which I haven't done with other dogs. He is getting better, I certainly hope to get some passes this year! He is good at training. I have had passes in ADAC, just not ANKC.

I remember seeing a lady with Afghans when I was training Zoe in agility several years ago (Zoe didn't mind her dogs), so it certainly can be done

I've had two girls and two boys. I've only managed to trial one of the boys, but that is more due to temperament than anything else (and my previous dog - the first girl, I got when I was 11 and didn't know about trialling until she was too old to try).

My dogs know whose crate is whose (I always put them in the same ones) but never tried to actually teach them this.

I also think obedience is easier with a bigger dog - hence why Diesel was supposed to be my obedience prospect ;) Your timing and handling needs to be good in agility if you are handling a fast, drivey dog. We have yet to have a quallie in ANKC agility or jumping (partly due to a running off issue which is being addressed). However they are so much fun to run, the speed and adrenaline when running them, I wouldn't have it any other way I also just love the Kelpies, their size, their cheekiness, their energy and enthusiasm, their wiggly bums and licking

So far the forecast is looking promising - 26 - 29 and possible showers, but there is a long time for the weather people to change their minds!

http://www.agilityclick.com/

Nice work Agility Dogs

Ah, OK I assumed you were talking about 'training in drive' the method. "He goes on to categorise drive on exactly what basic need is being met by the activity. Eg. Fear drive, aggressive drive, sex drive, food drive. No adrenalin, no dopamine, no anticipation. Just an urge that gets them doing something until they fulfill that urge" Yep that is the definition I learned too

I think we are talking at cross purposes. I am talking about dog training, the use of drives in dog training, what is commonly meant by 'training in drive', how this is different to other methods like shaping. I am not sure what you are talking about

But if you are trying to define 'Training in Drive' and what makes it different to other training (which I think is what you are trying to do?) then the way of working is important. The way the drive reward is manipulated and the self control the dog exhibits by doing the command is how this method works. It is a method, does not have the monopoly of utilising drive in dog training. If you are describing a method, you have to look at the method, not just that it uses 'drive'. I think dogs can certainly be 'in drive' with other forms of training - agility is not taught the same way as the 'training in drive' methods, but you can certainly tell if the dogs are 'in drive' while on course or waiting their turn. Same with flyball. This thread has been a discussion on what a dog looks like 'in drive', the fact that drive can be positive or negative, and what is usually defined as 'training in drive' I'm not sure what you are wanting people to discuss or get at? What are you trying to say?

The most obvious answer is Border Collie But other breeds that are routinely successful are: Kelpies Koolies Belgian Shepherds German Shepherds (Obedience mostly) Australian Shepherds Golden Retrievers (obedience mostly) German Shorthaired Pointers Vizslas If you like little guys Papillons Cavalier King Charles Spaniels Cocker Spaniels Mini Poodles Mini Schnauzers

I'm trying to figure out how to say what I mean :D It is not just that they are razzed up - Kaos also gets razzed up when I bring out the clicker. It is about how it is used and what is expected of the dog. With the clicker in shaping, you really want the dog to work it out with no help from you, sometimes involving interacting with other objects, sometimes at a distance or moving away from the handler. Handler is not necessarily the focus of the exercise. When using a Training in Drive program as I understand it, it is more about quick, enthusiastic obedience and control to a command normally close to the handler and giving handler focus. Quite different in how it is applied.

I see clicker training (especially shaping) as different to training in drive. With clicker training, you are right corvus, the excitement comes from the anticipation of the reward once they know and understand the exercise. They get faster and keener on the exercise as their understanding of the exercise builds. But often the beginning of shaping, when they don't know what you want, they are not as keen or fast, and may 'stall out' and stop, look at the handler, sit or drop. They have to offer behaviours on their own without prompting, and will choose those that are reinforced more for that exercise. With training in drive, you get them razzed up first, then the command is given and they have to control their desire to get the reward by obeying the command rather than jumping for the reward. They learn the fast way to the reward is to comply, not to jump for it and take it themselves. Both methods produce keen work but I see them as different. Does that makes sense? ETA: I use mostly shaping at the moment for agility. I often use a thrown toy reward, which creates more excitement than using food. Here is Kaos weaving taught a combination of channel/v-weaves and shaping.So I use a drive reward but do not train the exercise 'in drive'.

Cool thanks that clarifies it a lot

So you close them up at home, and then when you go to a new location you open them up again? And then work to closing them?

OK from the transcript - this is what confuses me: Stage 7: Move the poles closer together (about 48 inches apart) and rotate the poles to 1 o’clock and 7 o’clock. The poles will stay this distance apart. Gradually rotate both sets of the poles a little bit at a time, but make sure to keep them at approximately the same angle and on the reward line, until eventually you have four poles in a straight line. Then just move the two bases together so you now have competition-spaced weave poles. Chapter 6 - Proofing and Closing the Poles Don’t go to four straight poles yet. You will find that the more your dog fails, the more you tend to stay toward the center of the pie - you’re not going to work that arc because you’ll have more failures, and you’re not going to like to see it; your dog’s going to get unhappy. The dog will shape you to make it easier and stay right in the center of those four poles. To avoid doing that, stay at this stage for at least another day or two until the dog gets the idea to find the entry and drive forward.

worst part is the pay early starts late finishes lots and lots and lots of cleaning dogs with diarrhoea (however you spell that ) and then they walk in it and want to jump on you Cats that are difficult to move and handle and bite and scratch dogs that try to jump out of the bath and bite when brushed or have nails done But if you can live with that it can be great :p

Thanks for that Makes sense I meant it was quick in that it was hard to pick the transition and I didn't quite understand the explanation