Kavik

I'm just going to say that agility training has come along in leaps and bounds since I first started with Zoe 8 years ago. And most of this is to do with positive training methods, training with food and toys in drive, clickers and reward markers being more common, as well as a greater understanding of how to break down the obstacles into smaller components to teach the dog, and greater distance handling. Agility is done off leash, often with no collar. It is trained with NO corrections. The top handlers use toy and food rewards and reward after runs in a trial. Luckily agility is more lenient than obedience - you can use any number of verbal commands and praise in the ring. You are also in the ring for a short amount of time. And agility is FUN! It is VERY different to obedience. These are some of the reasons I love it.

Yep I know someone with Papillons who does very well! Are you thinking of the 'pap on crack' too, Kavik! Had the privilege of seeing him run in Vic at Nationals - totally amazing (the handler too ). Yep, Buddy is an AWESOME dog!

Yep I know someone with Papillons who does very well!

I'm with you Cos, I see no benefit in removing rewards all together other than the dog now being made to work for nothing. I think it all goes back to the very old style of training and beliefs that the dog MUST obey because you are master and no other reason, stemming from human's inner need to control that which is less superior to us. Agree with both of you I also agree Top competitors don't wean off rewards completely. As I said before top international competitors have said that we don't reward enough.

I agree that positive is not permissive. Agility is a very positive training based sport. My issue with Delta is that from what I have heard from people who have done the course, they don't actually teach the instructors how to train dogs or how to deal with problem behaviour at all. The lady I talked to said they actually had to refer a certain number of people to a veterinary behaviourist to pass the course. They are not even supposed to try to deal with problem behaviour. I guess at least they are supposed to know their limitations in that regard. They are not shown the different techniques and methods out there, only the one method, the others are not even acknowledged. Another (different) Delta person I talked to didn't understand why I wanted lots of prey drive in my next dog, as she thought that prey drive was only a nuisance and not something you could use to your advantage to get a good performance.

Congratulations

You can't use food or toy rewards in the actual ring. However, in agility, you can have your reward outside of the ring and reward after your run. (I haven't competed in obedience). Most people put their reward outside of the ring after the last obstacle. Smart people also do this in training (took me a while to work out as this is my first competing dog ) Agility is trained with no physical corrections at all. Many people achieve high levels of reliability. My high prey drive dog can easily be trained around a field of people playing football and he pays no attention to them, more interested in my toy (they train on the field I walk my dog on all the time). ETA: International agility instructors have said that Australians do not reward their dogs often enough. I practice individual obstacle skills at home to improve them with a high rate of reinforcement, and while I leave my reward bag with my toy and the majority of treats at the end of a run in training, I put some treats in my pocket for rewarding start line stays and contact performances. What I really like about agility is that you can break down obstacles and to some extent handling skills into small pieces and practice them separately to improve performance. I also like that trials can be seen as 'ring experiences' for your dog, and that it is important to have a positive ring experience. My more experienced friends have shown me that it is more important to have the dog running fluidly and keen around the course than to do all the obstacles, and missing a jump in your first couple of trials is no big deal.

The Delta trainer in this area won't deal with dogs that show any aggression (dog or human). She sends them to another (non-Delta) trainer. ETA By 'this area' I mean my area. I was talking to one of the people I do agility with, who is doing the Delta instructor's course. They are actually told not to deal with dogs that have any behavioural problems, but to refer them to a veterinary behaviourist. They are not taught how to deal with problem dogs at all. The lady I talked to was frustrated at this.

Yeah I know KNVP dogs can't compete, but I thought the ones with FCI papers (and can get ANKC papers) would be able to.

Her book was very interesting, in terms of how we generalise well and animals don't and that small changes can affect their performance.

It sounds like a Delta trainer you have been going to watch.

Dutchies have now been recognised by the ANKC and so dogs with FCI papers can get them registered with the ANKC. I assume this means that they are eligible for SchH now in this country as they would fall under FCI eligible breeds? Dutchies are not listed on the FCI eligible Schutzhund breeds overseas either to my knowledge???. Obviously they would have great sporting potential but I couldn't find any entered in the results of any overseas Schutzhund tournaments???. BREEDS ELIGIBLE FOR SCHUTZHUND TRAINING German Shepherd Dog, Boxer, Dobermann, Rottweiler, Giant Schnauzer, Airedale Terrier, Bouvier Des Flandres, Hovawart, Belgian Shepherd (Groendael, Malinois, Tervueren, Laekenois), Berger de Beauce, Berger de Brie, Berger Des Pyrenees A Face Rase, Berger Des Pyrenees A Museau Normal, Berger Picard, Lapinkoira, Suomenpystykorva The breeds above are the current FCI listing??? So you can do Schutzhund with a Finnish Spitz and a Finnish Lapphund (which I have never heard of doing any sort of manwork) but not a Dutch Shepherd (which are famous for KNVP)?

You are more than welcome to go to off leash parks if you wish. We are just pointing out the potential problems (which you have already encountered). With 2 of my dogs, you could not pay me to go to a crowded off leash area. My competing dog, while not dog aggressive, does not like dogs in his face and prefers to play/work with me, but will meet and greet polite dogs and then go on his way. I am glad I moved to a less populated area after being in Mosman with my parents, as it is easier to find quieter parks with less dogs to exercise my own dogs. It is harder to find quiet areas to exercise your dog in highly populated areas.

What other breeds doees she like the look and temperament of? Is she interested in doing any sports? Another one to consider: Schipperke. Small size, easy care coat, very cute, spitz type appearance.

Dutchies have now been recognised by the ANKC and so dogs with FCI papers can get them registered with the ANKC. I assume this means that they are eligible for SchH now in this country as they would fall under FCI eligible breeds?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The reason I don't take my dogs (and certainly not pups) to crowded dog parks (we go to quieter areas) is because I DID take Zoe, and after the rough and tumble of being in dog parks as a puppy she became dog aggressive as an adolescent and is still dog aggressive at 10 years old. She now no longer gets the privilege of running off leash anywhere . I would not risk that with another one of my dogs, especially when my aim is competition.

Also, if you continually run into aggressive dogs (I think in your posts you said you had run into a few different dogs of different breeds that were aggressive towards your pup) I would avoid those dogs and those areas altogether. Too many bad experiences could cause your pup to be aggressive. I would only allow your pup to say hi to dogs who you know are not going to act in an aggressive manner and avoid the rest.

I don't bring my dogs to dog parks (fenced designated dog parks) due to the fact it can be busy and some dogs rush yours and can be quite rude in their behaviour. I certainly would not be bringing my toddler!

Awesome. You could always do ADAA trials and run her in the Regular Maxi Class where she can jump 550. If you do ADAA and she ends up measuring Maxi and you are worried about the height, I agree do Regular and not International (International jumps 650)

I'm sorry this happened :D One of mine was severely attacked as well (lots of vet attention needed) and I sympathise as I remember how shaken up I was. I was really lucky someone heard my screams as the dog that attacked mine was wandering without an owner and there was no way I could have gotten him off my dog by myself. I also avoid dog parks (though my dog was attacked on the footpath).

I straddle Diesel when I do ear drops, though he is pretty easy going and doesn't struggle, and smaller than yours (he is 30kgs).

The Belgians do well I love this dog This dog trains French Ring as well

I think giant sized dogs would struggle with agility. As poodlefan said the tunnels are a squeeze and the dogwalk and seesaw planks are narrow. Also a giant breed would have to do a lot more work in bending its body to weave.

Sorry reading your post I got confused as to which one was your dog I had it right the first time then changed it!

Ooh then Bronson will be jumping 600 along with Kaos