Kavik

With the exception of champions (e.g obedience, field, retrieving etc) who are so good they get to put their working title at the front. Then it will say O.Ch, T. Ch, FT.Ch etc Shows I don't know much about all the titles and intricacies of it

Those are show titles Titles at the front indicate show titles, and at the back indicate performance titles.

I think the difference in size and stride may mean some things may never be the same. Kaos has a long stride and I have issues with off course obstacles that some others don't as he jumps big and lands far out. I really need to work on our tight turns as he is not good at this He also has an early commitment point for tunnels. So I foresee that if I get another (smaller) Kelpie, this will take some adjusting on my part as I am used to a bigger striding dog.

I agree with the others. I also don't think an ecollar would be appropriate to use on a dog in a situation where it is already showing anxiety.

I have a very large (over standard size) Kelpie - lots of people ask me if he is pure or a cross - he is pure, just big I don't say it as a good or bad thing - just the truth! I did manage to pick it when I saw someone I know with their Kelpie pup last year - said he looked like he was going to be big and might be joining me in 600 jumping dogs - the dog is now bigger than Kaos and not a year old yet

Get a working line one

For those of us not in the know, what is the difference between the KC and AKC standards?

Mon, I would be more tempted to get a Dobe if they were closer to 25 kgs than 40 Not sure I am keen on getting a dog that weighs nearly as much as me

I feel for the people with cream Kelpies. They are often asked if it is a dingo and one owner gets asked if it is a Pharoah Hound A legitimate colour in the breed, not common but does crop up more than I realised as I am seeing more of them in person and on breeder's websites.

Can he down on voice only? That is a good first step. Have you tried random downs for rewards when he isn't paying attention? First only a short distance away - maybe just next to you but not looking at you. Then increase the distance and do it when he is not paying attention. And either walk up to him to reward him or throw the reward to him - don't release him to you or call him to you to reward.

With my child's daycare I also had to make an appointment and come in at a certain time of the day

Short supervised sessions. She is also more tolerant of pups and seems to know the difference between visiting and here for good. Since a pup is not likely to challenge her and is just going to be a puppy, I find this easier to contemplate than worrying about whether the other dog is going to challenge her or do something to set her off. I have introduced two adolescent dogs into the household with Zoe before (a GSD that visited for a few months so I could do some training with it, and a Beagle my parents got when I was living at home). It took longer and was more stressful, but in the end she did accept them and they played together (Beagle had to be watched more though as he was a more dominant fellow). Probably not the ideal way to do it but with them the hose got a workout until she behaved (Zoe does not like the hose) Hose was not necessary when introducing puppies

The already established temperament is tempting for me too! I also have fears about stuffing up socialisation, and getting one that could also already tug (my most recent bugbear lol) and be OK with other dogs sounds so cool! My problem with going along the adult rescue route at the moment is that 1) OH doesn't want me to get a rescue as Zoe was a rescue and he is worried I might get another difficult rescue 2) I know I can integrate puppies into my pack, even with Zoe, as I have done that with Diesel and Kaos. It will be more difficult to integrate an adolescent or adult dog into the pack. I am still thinking about this one.

Where I worked, you could make an appointment to be shown through the premises on a Saturday which is quieter. They had a viewing windown too. And you could stay for the temperament test and we explained what we were doing. Having people walk through when it is busy creates A LOT of excitement for the dogs - the noise levels shoot through the roof too.

Emm, I understand completely! I had a similar experience with Zoe. Got her from rescue as a puppy. Did what I thought was the right thing by socialisation (puppy preschool, dog park, obedience classes from 16 weeks). She started exhibiting aggression towards other dogs around 6 months of age, but I didn't get help for it straight away (thought I could fix it on my own) and she still shows aggression towards other dogs now at 10 1/2 (her behaviour has improved since I have started a different training program with her). I took her to obedience and agility classes, and wanted to compete with her, but with her aggression I couldn't. I got very frustrated with the aggression especially when I would see people who had no idea how to train a dog and their dog was perfectly friendly towards other dogs. Since I now have other dogs, I have certainly learned that they are all different, and to learn from your experiences from previous dogs but try not to land all your baggage (and I have plenty from Zoe!) on your next dog.

She is gorgeous! Everyone I know seems to be getting a puppy lately - I am getting puppy envy

Oh was that you on Sat with the ETT? What a cutie and plenty of spunk!

Well dogs could do a number of things - they could still go the bottom and stop but self release and not wait for the release command, or still get in the contact zone but jump off before the bottom and keep going or jump off above the contact zone.

If the dog is not giving you reliable stops, you have a few choices. Some people have no problem with this and choose to do nothing so the behaviour continues. If you compete in ADAA you now have the choice to do a run as Not For Competition and bring a tug toy to reward in the ring, so you can reward your stops in the competition environment. Or some people will pull their dog out of the ring and not let them continue if they have not given a good stopped contact (providing they are sure the dog understands what is required). Luckily I haven't been faced with this decision yet My dog's issue is start lines :rolleyes:

Certainly by not promoting drive or by delierately training to decrease drive you can raise the dog's threshold for going into drive. And you can train to maximise the dog's drive and lower its threshold for going into drive. But there are limits as to how much it can be changed (certainly how far up), and this is determined by genetics. A scare or negative experience can affect a dog's confidence. Often the dog's level of nerve will determine how quickly they recover (a measure of resiliance - how they bounce back) and along with future training how far they recover.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree I think if say you compete every two weeks, that if extinction was at work, you would quickly see dips in performance. And this does happen with some behaviours at a trial. Stopped contacts for example, if you release early in trials but make the dog wait and reward in training, you will find the dog will behave differently in trials and may not give you as good a stop (happens often). The dog learns that the trial is a different environment and different things will be rewarded or not. But since this does not happen to performances in general and many dogs (such as Vickie's) perform better at a trial, I don't see how extinction could be at play. Since dogs often act differently in different scenarios as they learn specific behaviours are acceptable in different places, I don't see why a competition would be different and they are more excited and give a better performance.

From what I know of extinction I can't see how it could account for performance in competitions. Unless you are seeing extinction differently to how I do. If you compete often, the dog forms a correlation between trials and certain things, and if extinction was at play you would get a decrease in performance, as the dog recognises it as a trial. I know I perform differently when I compete to when I train (in several disciplines) because of the different conditions, nervousness, excitement etc. Why not the same for dogs?

That's right - at training, if you rewarded the same as at a trial, you would not get the same response as you get in a trial I think that, like people, they do respond to the different environment. And to the handler, and I know I act differently at a trial than at training. More nervous, more excited. I'm sure my dog picks up on that. And once they have done a few, they look forward to their runs.

Aidan, I don't think extinction would be the case at all. It doesn't take long for a dog to cotton on to the differences between a trial and training such as different location, time of day, duration of outing, level of distractions, people, dogs etc (as I mentioned in the potential of dogs thread). Some people (including myself) have noticed behaviours that are different at training and at a trial - the dogs know the difference. Extinction might occur if the dog thought it would get a certain reward and didn't, but once they have been to a few trials they KNOW what the reward is going to be like at a trial and that it is going to be different to training.

I found I got quite frustrated with Diesel, who when in the mood could perform well but with allergies making him feel lethargic and being a bit of a stresshead also shut down in busy environments and if I was stressed/nervous. I can understand why someone would not perservere to try and compete with a dog who doesn't want to work consistently, as nobody then has fun, (and that is a lot of the point!). He is working much better now that I am no longer putting the pressure on us to be able to get to a standard to compete. He can work well for short periods with a high rate of reinforcement - not that useful